New lockdown in England, including school closures, announced by Johnson, 4/1/21

[brick60000]

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2021/8/pdfs/uksi_20210008_en.pdf

As per usual, the legislation lags a couple of days. It kicks in at midnight. If you're living in the Isles of Scilly, enjoy the last hours of tier 1...

Interesting - from reading that it appears the new rules are being put through as strenghened tier 4 measures, with every area of the UK placed into tier 4, rather than a separate "national lockdown" tier / set of measures.

“Every area of England, apart from the territorial waters adjacent to England and the airspace above England and those territorial waters, is within the Tier 4 area.

These Regulations amend the Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) (No. 3) Regulations 2020 to clarify the powers of a police community support officer, and amend the Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (All Tiers) (England) Regulations 2020 to strengthen the Tier 4 restrictions, and to apply those restrictions to every area in England.

Also great to see the following....!

No impact assessment has been prepared for these Regulations.

 

[_toommm_]

Thanks

No problemo

 

[typefish]

Interesting - from reading that it appears the new rules are being put through as strenghened tier 4 measures, with every area of the UK placed into tier 4, rather than a separate "national lockdown" tier / set of measures.

Tier 4 was supposed to be a direct mirror of the restrictions from November (do you remember the words "circuit breaker" folks?)

 

[py_megapixel]

Tier 4 was supposed to be a direct mirror of the restrictions from November (do you remember the words "circuit breaker" folks?)

I thought they decided it was a firebreak, instead? Or was that the terminology for Scotland's equivalent?

 

[typefish]

I thought they decided it was a firebreak, instead? Or was that the terminology for Scotland's equivalent?

That was the Welsh translation.

 

[nedchester]

Long COVID is just the 'doom and gloom' name for Post Viral Fatigue (very common with many viruses), and it's being used (disgustingly) to scare those who are not at risk into compliance (it's pretty much the government lying to scare us into doing what they want).

That's not true as many have breathlessness when walking and cannot take deep breaths even when sitting. Normal post-viral fatigue means just being tired.

 

[LeylandLen]

I do wonder how many of you have actually been in an Intensive Care ward as I was in 2005 in north Manchester as a result of a mugging. Brilliant NHS staff kept me alive , was connected to machines 24 hours a day. I know we dont have the best politicians leading us, true they have made mistakes. From what my sister in NHS tells me Covid s very real and a killer . I tend to laugh at those sceptical non-beleivers who doubt the facts.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Please note, Boris stated

By February 15th, the NHS is committed to offering a vaccination to everyone in the top four priority groups including older care home residents and staff, everyone over 70, all frontline NHS and care staff and all those who are clinically extremely vulnerable.

Our understanding; additional research; the appearance of long COVID. Many, many things have changed and just rehashing something you liked from 9 months ago totally destroys your argument and credibility.

It doesn’t change the basic fact that the virus itself is no more deadly now than it was in May. That we have learned lessons and treatments now are more successful does not change any of the facts as stated by Whitty at that time.
In fact, it could be argued that because those admitted to hospital now have a better chance of survival, they are occupying beds for longer, which is good but is likely tending to exacerbate the capacity problem.

 

[Yew]

Do the daily vaccination briefings suggest that they're going to try and shift focus onto the good numbers, rather than on bad numbers?

 

[Mojo]

Really disappointed to see that McDonald are to close their non-drive through service as of tonight. As someone still expected to be out there during this and working normally, this was one of a tiny number of places open to get breakfast food when on an early shift.

 

[initiation]

I tend to laugh at those sceptical non-beleivers who doubt the facts.

No one is saying that they don't believe covid-19 exists; stop making the ridiculous assertion that those who don't support lockdown believe this. What 'sceptics' do believe is that the costs of lockdown outweigh the benefits, that little attention is being paid to other health issues and that the government and media are trying to scare the population.

 

[johntea]

Really disappointed to see that McDonald are to close their non-drive through service as of tonight. As someone still expected to be out there during this and working normally, this was one of a tiny number of places open to get breakfast food when on an early shift.

This was disappointing news to me too, especially when you can order in advance through the McDonalds app so there is very little time spent in the venue collecting it

Seems odd as other chains seem to be staying open this time round for click and collect orders as normal

 

[matacaster]

Those who support lockdowns are very quick to blame the people breaking the rules, which they wouldn’t be doing if there was widespread fear of contagion. You can’t have it both ways. The only people fearful at this stage are the vulnerable (rightly so) and those who don’t understand the risk. You can’t compare the current situation with that of March last year when we knew very little about the virus. Back then I was cautious if not quite fearful, as we didn’t know what we were dealing with and things like SARS and Ebola naturally spring to mind....

In regard to shielding/isolating the most vulnerable, I honestly can’t see why it’s not possible. If by those in the wider community you mean their carers, ask them to do the same. Provide them with accommodation if necessary and allow them to form bubbles, test them regularly and provide them with proper, effective PPE for when they do need to venture out into the wider world. Of course, you’d have to offer them a generous remuneration package for their troubles. The thing is, when it comes to dealing with this virus, money is no object. That said, I really do believe the cost of pursuing a targeted shielding/isolation policy would be a fraction of what we’ve spent so far....

Agree absolutely.

Absolutely agree with this.

Personally - I have absolutely zero interest in football, whatsoever. I couldn't give two hoots whether its cancelled or not. But to be told I can't go and sit and enjoy the fresh air, but professional 'elite' sports can continue in teams, is just another insult.

I know they have testing. That doesn't reduce the risk though if they test positive - it just means future fixtures are cancelled. It doesn't prevent the spreading throughout their families, etc.

I don't necessarily think football and other elite sports should be cancelled - but why can they continue when other, much less risky forms of recreation are banned?

Agreed.

 

[Class 317]

A good article from BMJ on long Covid. It's quite recent and it suggests that 10% of people who get Covid suffer long term heath effects.

NICE guideline on long covid

Research must be done urgently to fill the many gaps in this new “living guideline” The covid-19 pandemic has killed over 1.6 million people worldwide,1 caused the worst healthcare crisis of this century, and put a huge dent in our economies. The magnitude of the population still struggling...

www.bmj.com

Research must be done urgently to fill the many gaps in this new “living guideline”
The covid-19 pandemic has killed over 1.6 million people worldwide,1 caused the worst healthcare crisis of this century, and put a huge dent in our economies. The magnitude of the population still struggling with symptoms four weeks after their acute illness—commonly called “long covid”—is becoming obvious and demands urgent prioritisation to prevent a further blow to health systems and the healthcare workforce.

 

[Yew]

I do wonder how many of you have actually been in an Intensive Care ward as I was in 2005 in north Manchester as a result of a mugging. Brilliant NHS staff kept me alive , was connected to machines 24 hours a day. I know we dont have the best politicians leading us, true they have made mistakes. From what my sister in NHS tells me Covid s very real and a killer . I tend to laugh at those sceptical non-beleivers who doubt the facts.

Where have any of us said that this isn't real? Please refrain from making strawman arguments.

 

[Bikeman78]

More generally, we agree completely that we're dealing with trade-offs. But I'd suggest that the baseline for that trade-off needs to be the level of health care that the UK already enjoys, not a comparison against elsewhere. However, I don't suggest that it is to "protect the NHS" but to protect the public's reasonable expectations of a level of care they receive from the NHS if they fall ill. As a question of politics, this is something that the government will get more trouble for than the short run harms of lockdown.

Being cynical, I think this is the driving force behind the whole strategy. The government don't give a stuff whether Aunty Mabel lives or dies but they don't want to be nailed to the cross when the NHS collapses.

 

[Richard Scott]

A good article from BMJ on long Covid. It's quite recent and it suggests that 10% of people who get Covid suffer long term heath effects.

NICE guideline on long covid

Research must be done urgently to fill the many gaps in this new “living guideline” The covid-19 pandemic has killed over 1.6 million people worldwide,1 caused the worst healthcare crisis of this century, and put a huge dent in our economies. The magnitude of the population still struggling...

www.bmj.com

Really, I've known quite a few people who've had it and none suffered any long term effects. Think someone's bending the truth here.

 

[Yew]

Really, I've known quite a few people who've had it and none suffered any long term effects. Think someone's bending the truth here.

I wonder if they mean 1/10 hospitalisations?

 

[island]

Really disappointed to see that McDonald are to close their non-drive through service as of tonight. As someone still expected to be out there during this and working normally, this was one of a tiny number of places open to get breakfast food when on an early shift.

Yes, as am I. I do not understand the rationale for the change; the law does not require it.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Yes, as am I. I do not understand the rationale for the change; the law does not require it.

Yes, they’re really McMuffin things up !

 

[Yew]

Yes, as am I. I do not understand the rationale for the change; the law does not require it.

Surely you've realised by now that it's not about if things have an effect, it's about being inconvenienced, so you can show that you made a sacrifice.

 

[takno]

A good article from BMJ on long Covid. It's quite recent and it suggests that 10% of people who get Covid suffer long term heath effects.

NICE guideline on long covid

Research must be done urgently to fill the many gaps in this new “living guideline” The covid-19 pandemic has killed over 1.6 million people worldwide,1 caused the worst healthcare crisis of this century, and put a huge dent in our economies. The magnitude of the population still struggling...

www.bmj.com

That study quotes two other studies, which both quote figures from the Zoe app for people suffering symptoms consistent with Covid more than 4 weeks after the primary infection. The Zoe app is largely tracking symptomatic cases. So what we have is 10% of people who were symptomatic (which is maybe 20% of cases) still don't feel quite right 4 weeks later. An even smaller number of these are still suffering effects 12 weeks later. In a _very_ small number of cases these effects are genuinely debilitating.

It's right for the BMJ to be concerned, and to work out if there are new treatments and diagnostic processes required for patients turning up in their surgeries. It isn't however something that's worth ordinary people getting stressed about to the point of anybody putting normal life on hold. I think they're slightly more likely to already be suffering from heart disease or cancer.

 

[Yew]

That study quotes two other studies, which both quote figures from the Zoe app for people suffering symptoms consistent with Covid more than 4 weeks after the primary infection. The Zoe app is largely tracking symptomatic cases. So what we have is 10% of people who were symptomatic (which is maybe 20% of cases) still don't feel quite right 4 weeks later. An even smaller number of these are still suffering effects 12 weeks later. In a _very_ small number of cases these effects are genuinely debilitating.

It's right for the BMJ to be concerned, and to work out if there are new treatments and diagnostic processes required for patients turning up in their surgeries. It isn't however something that's worth ordinary people getting stressed about to the point of anybody putting normal life on hold. I think they're slightly more likely to already be suffering from heart disease or cancer.

Remember that there seems to be little work to baseline against the more sedentary lifestyles these measures have forced on us. I had a mild cough for a few days, but there were some times when I was kayaking over the summer, when I could swear that I had less lung capacity.

 

[DustyBin]

A good article from BMJ on long Covid. It's quite recent and it suggests that 10% of people who get Covid suffer long term heath effects.

NICE guideline on long covid

Research must be done urgently to fill the many gaps in this new “living guideline” The covid-19 pandemic has killed over 1.6 million people worldwide,1 caused the worst healthcare crisis of this century, and put a huge dent in our economies. The magnitude of the population still struggling...

www.bmj.com

Is that 10% of people who have serious symptoms though? Or those hospitalised? I really can’t believe it’s 10% of people infected, that just isn’t plausible....

 

[takno]

Remember that there seems to be little work to baseline against the more sedentary lifestyles these measures have forced on us. I had a mild cough for a few days, but there were some times when I was kayaking over the summer, when I could swear that I had less lung capacity.

Oh, I'm definitely feeling weaker, less fit, wheezier and with a reduced lung capacity. Sitting day after day in the same small dusty flat with a smoker definitely sounds like a more reasonable explanation for that than long Covid to me

 

[bramling]

Oh, I'm definitely feeling weaker, less fit, wheezier and with a reduced lung capacity. Sitting day after day in the same small dusty flat with a smoker definitely sounds like a more reasonable explanation for that than long Covid to me

I feel less healthy for sure. That’s what happens when it’s all work and no leisure. I have tried to maximise the amount of walking built into working days, but it simply isn’t always viable, especially with winter being here.

My only real day of leisure since October has been a jaunt out by car on Xmas Day (which itself was illegal - or at least against the tier guidance - so if Boris had his way that shouldn’t have happened either).

To be fair the weather and short days are more of a factor, as if there was something I wanted to do then I would have simply done it. I know it’s winter, but we don’t seem to be getting much in the way of sunshine at the moment.

None of the current crop of politicians will be getting my vote, I’m afraid it’s going to be protest votes for some time to come.

 

[DustyBin]

I do wonder how many of you have actually been in an Intensive Care ward as I was in 2005 in north Manchester as a result of a mugging. Brilliant NHS staff kept me alive , was connected to machines 24 hours a day. I know we dont have the best politicians leading us, true they have made mistakes. From what my sister in NHS tells me Covid s very real and a killer . I tend to laugh at those sceptical non-beleivers who doubt the facts.

I spent nearly a full day in one around three years ago. It was a real eye opener seeing what came through the door, it felt quite surreal at times. The staff were brilliant, I got talking to a young doctor who’d been in there for 18 hours and he was absolutely exhausted but kept going (you don’t have a choice in that environment I suppose!). I have nothing but respect for the people who staff these units. That doesn’t alter the fact though that covid poses little or no threat to the majority of people, unlike the government’s response to the pandemic. I don’t think anybody here is a ‘non-believer’, but we would like to see a well thought out and proportional response that doesn’t result in the collateral damage we’re seeing currently.

 

[Watershed]

Really disappointed to see that McDonald are to close their non-drive through service as of tonight. As someone still expected to be out there during this and working normally, this was one of a tiny number of places open to get breakfast food when on an early shift.

Yes, as am I. I do not understand the rationale for the change; the law does not require it.

Surely you've realised by now that it's not about if things have an effect, it's about being inconvenienced, so you can show that you made a sacrifice.

McDonald's is a canny operator and I am sure that these kinds of decisions will have been made at a high level. Brand and perception is everything for a company such as them and they will not want to do anything that is seen to be putting their customers in danger. Hence the move to restrict things to drive thru (even though this excludes a lot of customers).

There is also the possibility it is cheaper for them to operate that way, or other such commercial considerations.

 

[bramling]

McDonald's is a canny operator and I am sure that these kinds of decisions will have been made at a high level. Brand and perception is everything for a company such as them and they will not want to do anything that is seen to be putting their customers in danger. Hence the move to restrict things to drive thru (even though this excludes a lot of customers).

There is also the possibility it is cheaper for them to operate that way, or other such commercial considerations.

Yes I remember being stuck in traffic for 45 minutes last year when a whole area was gridlocked by cars queuing for (their Sunday lunch) at a drive-thru.

I suppose I can look forward to a repeat of that some time soon.

 

[Mills444]

Would I be right in saying that the amendments to The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (All Tiers) (England) Regulations 2020 (legislation.gov.uk) act make no difference on the exemptions for travelling?