New national restrictions in Scotland

[Stathern Jc]

Are you sure that for over a year you will never wake up in the middle of the night then go back to sleep?

At my age that happens all the time ..........

 

[Yew]

So you're
a) a virologist, qualified to make such a statement?
or
b) simply typing the first thing that comes into your head?
With nearly 19,000 people in hospital, good luck getting a bed were you to be run over by a car today. It's not as simple or clear cut as you seem to think.
By the way, the fatality rate is almost double your suggested figure.
View attachment 87368

I've previously provided citations to the forum to vericy both of those facts, I'd recommend some of the papers from John Ioannidis. I'd also request that you stick to logical debate, and avoid rhetorical appeals to ethos.

 

[Richard Scott]

So you're
a) a virologist, qualified to make such a statement?
or
b) simply typing the first thing that comes into your head?
With nearly 19,000 people in hospital, good luck getting a bed were you to be run over by a car today. It's not as simple or clear cut as you seem to think.
By the way, the fatality rate is almost double your suggested figure.
View attachment 87368

That's a bit rude isn't it, how do you know whether someone is qualified? Even if not an intelligent person can make a rational decision given research. Hospitals are often at breaking point anyway this time of year and figures you quote from deaths are from people who've died with it (someone I knew had terminal cancer but put down as covid, probably a blessing in disguise having watched a close family relative die of cancer). Some of my work colleagues have had this and I wouldn't go as far as to say wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy, can think of far worse. We need to get a sense of proportion, there are other issues, which have been highlighted many times in other threads, the virus is not a one horse race.

 

[scotrail158713]

If you delve deeper, you will find that the BGH is almost at breaking point and that there have been 101 new cases in the last 7 days.
Galashiels has seen many people travelling by train from Gorebridge, Newtongrange and Edinburgh simply for drinking sessions.
Melrose has required regular Police visits to The Ship Inn and King's Arms due to social distancing being ignored by some very, very drunk people.

I get that. I just moving from almost normality to almost lockdown is quite extreme. Why couldn’t they be in level 3?

 

[island]

Is it ?

What if I am travelling for work is that exempted ?

I will be in uniform with my "Ausweis"

I think the ban only comes in from Boxing Day as I understand it ?

Are you privy to how it is going to be policed at Airports ?

You know very well why you will be travelling. I stated that it will be an offence. Whether it will be detected or not is quite separate.

 

[duncanp]

Galashiels has seen many people travelling by train from Gorebridge, Newtongrange and Edinburgh simply for drinking sessions.

I said on the thread about the English tier system that I wonder whether the tier system is now becoming more a part of the problem than part of the solution.

If pubs in Gorebridge, Newtongrange and Edinburgh were open, then that would remove the incentive for people to travel to the Scottish Borders for a drink.

Not only that, the more pubs, restaurants and cafes that are open, the more spread out people would be, so fewer people would be in each establishment.

The Birmingham to Hereford train was similarly quite busy yesterday, starting out as it does in Tier 3, travelling through Worcestershire (Tier 2) and ending up in Herefordshire (Tier 1)

And no doubt there are similar situations throughout the UK where there are transport links between the Tiers.

For example, elsewhere in Scotland you have the train from Glasgow and Kilmarnock to various destinations in Dumfriesshire.

Have there been similar issues with there, as in the Borders, with people travelling just so that they can have a drink?

 

[MattA7]

So you're
a) a virologist, qualified to make such a statement?
or
b) simply typing the first thing that comes into your head?
With nearly 19,000 people in hospital, good luck getting a bed were you to be run over by a car today. It's not as simple or clear cut as you seem to think.
By the way, the fatality rate is almost double your suggested figure.
View attachment 87368

Where are you getting that COVID tracker data from?

 

[nlogax]

Another trip north across the border, another total lack of any enforcement.

 

[Yew]

With nearly 19,000 people in hospital, good luck getting a bed were you to be run over by a car today. It's not as simple or clear cut as you seem to think.

Presenting big scary numbers without context is dishonest and manipulative, hospital occupancy percentages paint a significantly different picture.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Where are you getting that COVID tracker data from?

Looks like Travelling Tabby. I quite like his site - clearly laid out information. His Twitter feed also has some interesting graphs/graphics illustrating various Covid-related things in Scotland.

 

[MattA7]

Looks like Travelling Tabby. I quite like his site - clearly laid out information. His Twitter feed also has some interesting graphs/graphics illustrating various Covid-related things in Scotland.

Thanks

 

[Scotrail12]

How many times have we been through the wringer now? That October semi closure nonsense, the 3 weeks of tier 4 and now this. Must be really confusing being a business owner in Tier 4, spending all that money to reopen and then you're not allowed to. It's insane to try things so many times when they're clearly not working. I now feel desensitised to it.

Sturgeon & Sridhar are among the most contemptible people living now.

 

[43096]

Do none of you have any conception about how serious this is?
This is a dreadful disease that you would not wish upon your worst enemy.

What a load of hysterical, scaremongering claptrap. Do you want a job with the British Brainwashing Corporation?

It is a "dreadful disease" for a small proportion of people, very largely those who are in certain high-risk categories through age or other illnesses. For the vast majority of people they either have a minor illness or have no symptoms at all.

I think I had it back in March (not certain as there wasn't any testing, but had the symptoms) and I had a few days of tiredness, aching limbs, sore throat etc. Didn't need a day off work with it and it was orders of magnitude less severe than a flu-like virus I had last year on holiday.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Sturgeon & Sridhar are among the most contemptible people living now.

Sridhar said 2 hours before Sturgeon's announcement (on the BBC News channel) that a nationwide lockdown was not required from a medical perspective.

But now she's lapping it up trying to push the elimination/zero-covid mantra.

 

[devon_metro]

If Sturgeon wasn't trying to stir up hatred of the English and excite the nationalists, she would have simply reenforced the message that travelling outside your council area is banned (which already applied to "level" 3 and 4 areas). This is defacto a ban on travel to the rest of the common travel area. Moving everything to Tier 4 would have the same effect. It's quite tiresome living in Scotland with some of the rhetoric and endless grievance from the Scottish Government.

 

[Stathern Jc]

Trouble is, we don't know whether we would shake it off fairly easily, or be in the whatever percentage for our age / health etc who it would get hold of really badly.
I still think it's sensible to keep as low a profile as our individual circumstances allow, and with the increasing numbers in several parts of the country I'm going to stick to that for a while.
Fortunately having retired earlier in the year I'm not under any pressure to be out and about, and I do have a lot of sympathy for those whose employment gives them a dilemma.

Having said that, I did find it a shock to hear that Highland is being shoved from Tier 1 right up to Tier 4.
After all, it is (with Moray) mostly in the bottom two UK mainland local authority areas for covid cases, and beyond freight etc for the island ferries there isn't any through traffic.

 

[DB]

What a load of hysterical, scaremongering claptrap. Do you want a job with the British Brainwashing Corporation?

Or writing government covid-related press releases...

 

[Butts]

As I understand it although the "ban" in travelling to England has already been enacted the change in Tier Levels is effective from Boxing Day in Scotland.

Living in Falkirk which is in Tier 2 means that you are still permitted to Travel Abroad as I understand it. It is advised against but not legally restricted.

In order to get to an Airport you are permitted to enter a higher level area (IE Edinburgh). So if I were to fly down to Birmingham from Edinburgh with the intention of continuing overseas that would be permissible under current regulations ?

 

[Wynd]

If Sturgeon wasn't trying to stir up hatred of the English and excite the nationalists, she would have simply reenforced the message that travelling outside your council area is banned (which already applied to "level" 3 and 4 areas). This is defacto a ban on travel to the rest of the common travel area. Moving everything to Tier 4 would have the same effect. It's quite tiresome living in Scotland with some of the rhetoric and endless grievance from the Scottish Government.

Cant help but notice your bio says London though?

That so many on here are so quick to make this about politics speaks volumes. This is a serious situation. Lowing the tone by introducing manufactured grievance, as some knee jerk reaction to a party or individual you don't like, smacks of an argument devoid of compassion.

Some of the posts on here are contemptible.

I don't give a hoot what your views are on the constitution/border/First Minister/SNP/Labour/Tory because while people are dying these things do not matter. At all.

Some of you need to take a serious look in the mirror and have words with yourself.

Moaning about some politician while folk are dying, alone, terrified, locked away from their families and loved ones.

Get a grip.

If I had it my way, Id be closing the border, and hermetically sealing London shut which should have been done 9 months ago.

Then again, I am infinitely thankful I'm not the one having to take these decisions.

 

[DB]

That so many on here are so quick to make this about politics speaks volumes. This is a serious situation. Lowing the tone by introducing manufactured grievance, as some knee jerk reaction to a party or individual you don't like, smacks of an argument devoid of compassion.

Ah, another Locktivist!

Afraid that whether you like it or not, there is a political angle to this because the devolved administrations are using this for self-promotion. A more sensible strategy would have been to agree a joint approach for England, Scotland and Wales, with N Ireland agreeing one with the Republic.

And shouting about 'compassion' and 'people are dying' is irrelevant -it doesn't alter the reality that the whole situation has been a string of incompetent decisions which have caused vast harm to society, but made little difference to the actual spread of the virus. Some people seem unable to grasp the fact that, arrogant though humanity is, it cannot prevent a widespread, infectious airnorne virus from circulating.

 

[Richard Scott]

Cant help but notice your bio says London though?

That so many on here are so quick to make this about politics speaks volumes. This is a serious situation. Lowing the tone by introducing manufactured grievance, as some knee jerk reaction to a party or individual you don't like, smacks of an argument devoid of compassion.

Some of the posts on here are contemptible.

I don't give a hoot what your views are on the constitution/border/First Minister/SNP/Labour/Tory because while people are dying these things do not matter. At all.

Some of you need to take a serious look in the mirror and have words with yourself.

Moaning about some politician while folk are dying, alone, terrified, locked away from their families and loved ones.

Get a grip.

If I had it my way, Id be closing the border, and hermetically sealing London shut which should have been done 9 months ago.

Then again, I am infinitely thankful I'm not the one having to take these decisions.

Don't be so melodramatic. Yes people are dying and around 1600 do every day. Others are dying of things that may have been prevented if our politicians had bothered to realise there was more going on than the virus. I'm going to stick my neck out and say I expect a large number of those dying with the virus were on limited time anyway.
What about those who've committed suicide (like the son of one of my sister's colleagues) because they couldn't deal with this any more. Suggest you look beyond the virus and see what's happening in the world.

 

[Butts]

Cant help but notice your bio says London though?

That so many on here are so quick to make this about politics speaks volumes. This is a serious situation. Lowing the tone by introducing manufactured grievance, as some knee jerk reaction to a party or individual you don't like, smacks of an argument devoid of compassion.

Some of the posts on here are contemptible.

I don't give a hoot what your views are on the constitution/border/First Minister/SNP/Labour/Tory because while people are dying these things do not matter. At all.

Some of you need to take a serious look in the mirror and have words with yourself.

Moaning about some politician while folk are dying, alone, terrified, locked away from their families and loved ones.

Get a grip.

If I had it my way, Id be closing the border, and hermetically sealing London shut which should have been done 9 months ago.

Then again, I am infinitely thankful I'm not the one having to take these decisions.

In answer to your concluding sentence and bearing in mind the content of your post, so is everyone else.

Another trip north across the border, another total lack of any enforcement.

Was your trip in breach of the regulations ?

 

[Journeyman]

80% of people have no observable symptoms, the infection fatality rate is 0.2%. This is a slightly more dangerous than usual respiratory illness, not the bubonic plague.

I've had it, and I was extremely ill for a month, far more so than I've been in the rest of my 46 years. It was a terrifying experience that put a lot of things into perspective. As a generally very fit person who normally never gets ill, I was genuinely freaked out by how bad it was, and I spent a lot of time worrying I'd be permanently suffering after-effects.

I hate the restrictions too, but please comply with them. The new strain is potentially a big problem. However inconvenient, difficult or frustrating the rules are, the more they're broken, the longer they'll go on. The vaccine is getting rolled out. It won't go on forever.

Please don't be selfish over this. It's serious.

 

[nlogax]

In answer to your concluding sentence and bearing in mind the content of your post, so is everyone else.



Was your trip in breach of the regulations ?

Nope, completely in accordance with the law.

 

[DB]

I've had it, and I was extremely ill for a month, far more so than I've been in the rest of my 46 years. It was a terrifying experience that put a lot of things into perspective. As a generally very fit person who normally never gets ill, I was genuinely freaked out by how bad it was, and I spent a lot of time worrying I'd be permanently suffering after-effects.

I hate the restrictions too, but please comply with them. The new strain is potentially a big problem. However inconvenient, difficult or frustrating the rules are, the more they're broken, the longer they'll go on. The vaccine is getting rolled out. It won't go on forever.

Please don't be selfish over this. It's serious.

You seem to be assuming that the restrictions will actually make much difference - those to date appear to have had a fairly minimal effect.

 

[farleigh]

I've had it, and I was extremely ill for a month, far more so than I've been in the rest of my 46 years. It was a terrifying experience that put a lot of things into perspective. As a generally very fit person who normally never gets ill, I was genuinely freaked out by how bad it was, and I spent a lot of time worrying I'd be permanently suffering after-effects.

I hate the restrictions too, but please comply with them. The new strain is potentially a big problem. However inconvenient, difficult or frustrating the rules are, the more they're broken, the longer they'll go on. The vaccine is getting rolled out. It won't go on forever.

Please don't be selfish over this. It's serious.

Is it selfish to cook a Xmas meal for my father (whose wife died this year) and delivering it to him on Xmas day?

Should I say no to him?

 

[Butts]

Nope, completely in accordance with the law.

So you meant no one was monitoring who was coming and going either end or onboard ?

Are you surprised it's all empty rhetoric is it not ?

 

[Journeyman]

You seem to be assuming that the restrictions will actually make much difference - those to date appear to have had a fairly minimal effect.

It seems pretty blindingly obvious that if you limit travel and contact with other people, it will help. I'm just saying, as someone who has been there, that this really is serious, and it matters more than your freedom to have fun. I wouldn't have said that before I contracted it. Apart from anything else, even if the mortality rate is tiny, if it makes thousands of people as ill as I was at the same time, hospitals wouldn't cope and public services and industry would collapse under the strain.

Please be careful.

 

[Butts]

Is it selfish to cook a Xmas meal for my father (whose wife died this year) and delivering it to him on Xmas day?

Should I say no to him?

You could safely leave it on the doorstep if you are concerned ?

Not selfish at all, I'd go in and socially distance if it makes you feel better.

 

[Journeyman]

Is it selfish to cook a Xmas meal for my father (whose wife died this year) and delivering it to him on Xmas day?

Should I say no to him?

That's entirely up to you, and the rules allow for it.

I'm talking about people travelling in contravention of the rules for their own enjoyment.