New Somerset & Dorset - are they serious?

[Eagle]

Blandford needs its railway back.

No. The population of Blandford is just 7,500, that doesn't warrant a rail link. (The Camp is two miles east of the town before you say the railway should go there.) Also most of the line of the railway is now developed on; there is no room for a reopening.

 

[DAVE H]

Hi, i'm new here and have been on the "NEW S&D" web site. Just what planet is this guy on??? I have dared to challenge his claim's of reopening the line but it seem's his only agenda is peak oil. I can't see where in this cash strapped country he thinks the money will come from or the labour to do it. I think the guy's currently working on the existing projects are doing a fantastic job and have a realistic view as to how far they can go. I have been activly invovled in the shillingstone project doing things like the perimiter fencing and reroofing the station. I was very happy to do this and even at that time the guy's would have been more than happy to have a running line from stur to blandford. I think the new s&d website does more harm than good! almost turning the line into a joke.

 

[Tiny Tim]

Whilst I agree that the New S&D are wildly optimistic I don't think they're doing any harm. They certainly put more achievable projects in perspective which might even be a good thing. The other groups involved with the S&D simply ignore the New S&D. That's their prerogative.

 

[ACE1888]

Best hope is Midsomer Norton and Shillingstone for a fitting tribute to all things 'S&D'...it's a simple as that...who knows where it CAN all lead to...

 

[Trainbuff]

I agree with everything already said. In theory it would be wonderful to have all our old railways back. Closing the S&D was regrettable, but that was different financial times. There are many lines more important to reopen. Portishead, Tavistock and even Okehampton-Tavistock long term.

The private car IS here to stay.The new S&D is over ambitious to reopen the whole line. A reality check is needed

However, all the preservation projects including Midford deserve success. I wish all the Preservationists the best of luck

 

[DAVE H]

I agree with the last 3 posts entirely. I will give the new s&d a wide berth. I fullly support the projects that are currently being restored and wish them luck. The guys i have met at both of these projects and they realise the costs of expansion due to obsticles. Not impossible but costly. Oh for a lottery win!

 

[Kinghambranch]

No. The population of Blandford is just 7,500, that doesn't warrant a rail link. (The Camp is two miles east of the town before you say the railway should go there.) Also most of the line of the railway is now developed on; there is no room for a reopening.

As I have never lived there (but driven through it) and you have, I guess I should agree with your view, but I'll agree to differ and we will see; time will tell. One thing is for certain, the Midsomer Norton and Shillingstone Groups are both doing a superb job in recreating what should have been preserved as a famous railway (albeit the Bournemouth extension did the original S&D no good!) and, the publicity given to the S&D by the "Peak Oil" advocate has, at least, made people think and its bound to polarise some peoples' views in doing so.

 

[Eddystone]

Well,got to admit that a recently published Peak Oil graph (presented by the New S&D Group) was pretty disturbing.It depicted current oil production hopelessly outstripping new discoveries. Don't forget that even electric vehicles need to have their power centrally generated. Road and air travel to finish?- he could be right. We could be talking semi -apocalypse or a radical change in society with its values and habits. There's a ring of truth in what he's saying and I know he's genuinely gathering support. The standard replies and rebuttals don't stack up-they are just the same old crap-something is going to happen-something akin to the St Paul's demo-some kind of quiet revolution-or even a louder one. There's something mystical about the counties of Somerset and Dorset-I'm on that wavelength. There's something magical about the S&D too-Donald had the feel for it...'Eddystone' survived for a reason -'Braunton' also-and all those 9F's! New S&D could well be a stamping ground for the PPM-there must be a not necessarily logical reason for all this fundamental back to basics thinking.Extreme maybe-impossible never! Even the New S&D don't know what they've got in their hands-but at least they admit it!

 

[Chris125]

Well,got to admit that a recently published Peak Oil graph (presented by the New S&D Group) was pretty disturbing.It depicted current oil production hopelessly outstripping new discoveries.

That may well turn out to be correct, but its irrelevant - it wont improve the non-existent case for rebuilding the S&D.

Chris

 

[34104]

That may well turn out to be correct, but its irrelevant - it wont improve the non-existent case for rebuilding the S&D.

Chris

Only my second post on here,i speak as a life member of both the MSN and Shillingstone projects and as a member of the New S and D who knows very little about peak oil and the possible consequences.However,if your statement that Eddystone's opinions may well be correct and which i take to read that there is a possible doomsday transport scenario ahead[however far into the future that may be] why would the rebuilding of the S and D be irrelevant? I'd have thought that connecting reasonable sized towns such as Radstock,Shepton Mallet,Midsomer Norton,Wincanton and Blandford to some sort of workable transport system under those circumstances would be rather important,indeed essential.I may have read your post wrongly and, as i say,i'm certainly no expert on what the future may hold,just curious as to the reasoning behind your conclusion.

 

[Kinghambranch]

That may well turn out to be correct, but its irrelevant - it wont improve the non-existent case for rebuilding the S&D.

Chris

You may well be right although I believe there is a case for rebuilding some of it and some of it has already been rebuilt albeit purely for heritage purposes, but its a start.

Two news items today: 1. Coryton Oil Refinery's owners file for bankruptcy (What? an oil refinery owner filing for bankruptcy?) and 2. Secretary of State for Defence ponders sending more RN vessels to Persian Gulf (Don't know why, when I served in the RN we had ships that we could send!) due to concerns over Straits of Hormuz. Makes a rebuilt railway look slightly more credible today than it did yesterday imho. oh, and an electric car!

 

[Ivo]

Coryton Oil Refinery's owners file for bankruptcy (What? an oil refinery owner filing for bankruptcy?)

They had an explosion a few years and just haven't recovered from it. The blast could be heard 30 miles away; I was helping at my old primary school when it happened (a range of about 15 miles, so we would have heard it ~75s after it happened).

This doesn't change my S&D stance though. I like the idea but it just isn't practical. Indeed, looking at the proposed towns in 34104's post, the largest is Midsomer Norton - population circa 11,000. Even the wider Norton Radstock area has only double that.

 

[DAVE H]

In all honesty the S&D passed through some lovely countryside and linked to great places to go. There ain't a lot inbetween that would really justify the emence cost of rebuilding. How much for instance would it cost just to replace prestliegh viaduct? or cross the A303. Nothing really to be seen at Wincanton! They claim 97% of the line is clear, i don't honestly believe that. Most of the Dorset stations have gone and built over. I am glad though that pockets of the line are being restored. I would like to see Sturminster to Blandford as a running line. Bridging the bypass will be very costly as will digging out the cutting at Gains cross.

 

[ACE1888]

Good..no, Great to see the Old 'Slow and Dirty' still stirs the imagination and emotions of the railway community, if you agree with this 'Groups' aims or no, realistic or not!
Being from Cornwall (and lived here all my life), the 'S&D' holds a 'fascination' like no other for me

 

[Eddystone]

Two news items today: 1. Coryton Oil Refinery's owners file for bankruptcy (What? an oil refinery owner filing for bankruptcy?) and 2. Secretary of State for Defence ponders sending more RN vessels to Persian Gulf (Don't know why, when I served in the RN we had ships that we could send!) due to concerns over Straits of Hormuz. Makes a rebuilt railway look slightly more credible today than it did yesterday imho. oh, and an electric car!

My God Kingham it's happening sooner than I thought!

Chris I respect your view but these are becoming times which do not warrant logical thinking. We need to be laterally minded or we will not survive. The S&D will be one of many revived transport projects around the country-which also embrace the canal system. The pure metaphysics of the S&D are like a magnetic pulse which grabs you as you journey into the West Country. The Churnet Valley has a similar electric atmosphere-and look what they are achieving! Wensleydale, Tavistock and Folkestone Harbour are other examples. Teesside is another area which eminates this energy.

The fact that so many support the New S&D is no coincidence-it will happen in one form or the other-because the(sometimes subliminal) will is there-no matter how many 'logical' arguments are projected.

Have you heard of the 2012 preppers?-the world is going to change.Hopefully there will be no devastating apocolypse, insurrection or overt anarchy. True local government will prevail-putting an end to the self interest and insincerity from Westminster. Dave's 'Big Society' is what is going to happen-poor man doesn't realise the significance of his ramblings. Secondary Railways will become the practical arteries of community life and its future prosperity.

 

[Ivo]

Secondary Railways will become the practical arteries of community life and its future prosperity.

That's all very well, but then x years from now when someone finds an alternative to petrol/diesel that is far simpler than the current electric car set-up we will end up with another Beeching scenario as people deciee against the railways in their millions. Do we want that?

Of course not.

 

[caliwag]

Excellent thinking there Eddy (if I can call you that) too many negative boys around. Sure as a preservation project it will seem pie in sky, but I see no reason why such ventures cannot be seen as the catalyst for a wider understanding of the role of rail based transport...we cannot carry on destroying towns and communities (to say nothing of the oil issue) with silly, car-based transport.
Having said that, I still say that guys in suits (and I have been one!) will not carry on racing around the country conducting rediculous meetings, and their associated jollies, becuase IT'S JUST DAFT, and NOT EFFICIENT for any business...get a grip!!

HS2...daft.

 

[martinsh]

My God Kingham it's happening sooner than I thought!

Chris I respect your view but these are becoming times which do not warrant logical thinking. We need to be laterally minded or we will not survive. The S&D will be one of many revived transport projects around the country-which also embrace the canal system. The pure metaphysics of the S&D are like a magnetic pulse which grabs you as you journey into the West Country. The Churnet Valley has a similar electric atmosphere-and look what they are achieving! Wensleydale, Tavistock and Folkestone Harbour are other examples. Teesside is another area which eminates this energy.

The fact that so many support the New S&D is no coincidence-it will happen in one form or the other-because the(sometimes subliminal) will is there-no matter how many 'logical' arguments are projected.

Have you heard of the 2012 preppers?-the world is going to change.Hopefully there will be no devastating apocolypse, insurrection or overt anarchy. True local government will prevail-putting an end to the self interest and insincerity from Westminster. Dave's 'Big Society' is what is going to happen-poor man doesn't realise the significance of his ramblings. Secondary Railways will become the practical arteries of community life and its future prosperity.

You are David Icke and I claim my £10 !

 

[Chris125]

The fact that so many support the New S&D is no coincidence-it will happen in one form or the other-because the(sometimes subliminal) will is there-no matter how many 'logical' arguments are projected.

I agree - if it wasnt for that pesky 'logic' this would make total sense.

As i've said before, if someone wants to come up with a plausible explanation for how this will come about, i'd love to see it - for example do fuel prices escalate very quickly, over a couple of years, or would it take decades? No doubt you've given this a lot of thought.

Btw, if anyone wants to read the NatPres discussion, its here in all its banging-your-head-against-a-brick-wall glory...

Chris

 

[Eddystone]

...anything can happen Ivo and Chris-but it's not easy to fight metaphysics. S&D second time around would be here to stay until a natural and/or cataclysmic event smoothed it into oblivion. Economics or alternative fuels would have no effect.The Counties of Somerset and Dorset are mystical...from the cloisters of Wells to the hillocks of Corfe. The Legend of Avalon...the escarpment of Glastonbury..King Arthur and Wessex. The S&D is just a more modern legend...its folklore is irrefutable-you cannot destroy its spirit, which makes it much easier to restore its fabric. Why do you think so many locos that were used on the S&D have survived? Which other railway is being restored in such a piecemeal manner in so many locations. Its not logical its magical.

 

[MK Tom]

There's one other major hole in the New S&D site which is the complete absence of a plan for where the Gartell Light Railway has been laid on the trackbed. Does he plan to send a new alignment around it? Or have two very closely spaced gauge changes? Probably just planning another million pound compulsory purchase like is the case with the Sainsbury's entrance road and car park.

I do agree with those saying that this site is a little harmful to the genuine preservation societies on the S&D. Both Midsomer and Shillingdon are very impressive in how far they've come and very optimistic in what they plan and I think they'll both achieve their plans and beyond, but having a site talking about reinstating the entire network including near-impossible feats like running into an already over-used main line station and re-instating countless sections of lost alignment belittles the impressive scale and achievements of the two societies and distracts and confuses people who want to learn about them. That's just my opinion though. Reading the New S&D site reminds me a lot of a site I once found that talked about a long-lost 1910s Northampton Underground which included pictures of old entrances (a 1960s underpass) and was very transparently some guy talking about complete fiction. Whilst I kind of respect the optimism and ambition behind the New S&D and don't consider it fictitious to the same level as that, I think it does detract from the two groups and belittle their fantastic efforts.

 

[Eddystone]

Actually Chris it is coming about... How long do I think it will take? The natural transitional rebuild could take 40years. Don't forget you are constructing the fabric as guided by the spirit (fate). The odds are it won't include Bath Green Park. But then again supermarkets are commercially imposed fads. Sainsburys could become derelict or converted to a community centre. SO it could!
Did you visit Barry Scrapyard in 1969-I did and said a prayer-so did 1000's of others. Who would have believed that nearly every single loco would be preserved-but it has happened and after the prayer it took blood sweat and tears-I know, I was there. The new S&D will take blood sweat and tears as well-the grand master knows this too!

And all along there were all these 'logical' whingers who moaned about duplicity and dilution of resources . Get on with the scrapping they used to scream. Good job we ignored the wassocks. After a while Barry Scrapyard was in the same sentence with words like spiritual and pilgrimage. Magic NOT Logic.

Actually Tom your'e on the right wavelength-you appear to have answered all your own questions!
The fact that the New S&D is/isn't harming all the excellent micro projects along the line is irrelevant. As for the friends at Gartell-long may they steam!

 

[DAVE H]

There's one other major hole in the New S&D site which is the complete absence of a plan for where the Gartell Light Railway has been laid on the trackbed. Does he plan to send a new alignment around it? Or have two very closely spaced gauge changes? Probably just planning another million pound compulsory purchase like is the case with the Sainsbury's entrance road and car park.

I do agree with those saying that this site is a little harmful to the genuine preservation societies on the S&D. Both Midsomer and Shillingdon are very impressive in how far they've come and very optimistic in what they plan and I think they'll both achieve their plans and beyond, but having a site talking about reinstating the entire network including near-impossible feats like running into an already over-used main line station and re-instating countless sections of lost alignment belittles the impressive scale and achievements of the two societies and distracts and confuses people who want to learn about them. That's just my opinion though. Reading the New S&D site reminds me a lot of a site I once found that talked about a long-lost 1910s Northampton Underground which included pictures of old entrances (a 1960s underpass) and was very transparently some guy talking about complete fiction. Whilst I kind of respect the optimism and ambition behind the New S&D and don't consider it fictitious to the same level as that, I think it does detract from the two groups and belittle their fantastic efforts.

I agree totally with this post, the groups behind Midsomer and Shillingstone are making great progress with quality work. They also don't get caught up in the unrealistic thoughts of rebuilding the entire network, branch lines and all but concentrate on what they can achieve. IF in the future more of this line is restored then that can only be a good thing. But to say it's going to happen no matter what is almost arrogant and does feel a little belittling to what's already been achieved. I dont know what "eddystone" is smoking but it must be very "spiritual"

 

[Kinghambranch]

I agree totally with this post, the groups behind Midsomer and Shillingstone are making great progress with quality work. They also don't get caught up in the unrealistic thoughts of rebuilding the entire network, branch lines and all but concentrate on what they can achieve. IF in the future more of this line is restored then that can only be a good thing. But to say it's going to happen no matter what is almost arrogant and does feel a little belittling to what's already been achieved. I dont know what "eddystone" is smoking but it must be very "spiritual"

A good point there regarding the work being done by Shillingstone and MSN. The last couple of years have seen a real change in the appearance and attractiveness of both these locations and both have the support of local authorities and communities - very important. In the case of Midsomer, extending South to Chilcompton is achievable and, with further support, much more can be achieved. An excellent example, and one close to my heart, is the tremendous progress being made at Broadway Station on the GWSR. Three local organisations, the most recent being Broadway Parish Council, have donated funds to assist in the rebuilding of the station as they know that the GWSR, when reconnected to Broadway and then Honeybourne, will repay that investment handsomely. The old S&D was highly thought of by many and that enthusiasm has continued to affect further generations - I did travel on the S&D to Bournemouth but was only about 2 at the time so don't remember it! However, I think it is a line which should at least play a part in both heritage and commercial use and more people are thinking the same. In fact I'm so impressed with the Midsomer project that I joined it.

 

[34104]

There's one other major hole in the New S&D site which is the complete absence of a plan for where the Gartell Light Railway has been laid on the trackbed. Does he plan to send a new alignment around it? Or have two very closely spaced gauge changes? Probably just planning another million pound compulsory purchase like is the case with the Sainsbury's entrance road and car park.

I do agree with those saying that this site is a little harmful to the genuine preservation societies on the S&D. Both Midsomer and Shillingdon are very impressive in how far they've come and very optimistic in what they plan and I think they'll both achieve their plans and beyond, but having a site talking about reinstating the entire network including near-impossible feats like running into an already over-used main line station and re-instating countless sections of lost alignment belittles the impressive scale and achievements of the two societies and distracts and confuses people who want to learn about them. That's just my opinion though. Reading the New S&D site reminds me a lot of a site I once found that talked about a long-lost 1910s Northampton Underground which included pictures of old entrances (a 1960s underpass) and was very transparently some guy talking about complete fiction. Whilst I kind of respect the optimism and ambition behind the New S&D and don't consider it fictitious to the same level as that, I think it does detract from the two groups and belittle their fantastic efforts.

As a life member of both organisations,i don't really agree that the new S and D belittles or denigrates the Shillingstone or MSN projects in any way.Both are excellent organisations who already have achieved some truly wonderful things at their respective sites and in fairness to the new S and D,this has frequently been acknowledged on posts and photographs on their website,as has the Gartell railway.As i said in a previous post,i'm no expert on peak oil or future modes of transport and could not give a definitive answer of yes to the question of whether or not the S and D could ever fully reopen or in what timescale.However,there would seem to be some nascent development taking place at Midford and Spetisbury,similar to that of the early stages of the NDRHT and MSN and if they develop in a likewise fashion,that would be a considerable second prize as far as i'm concerned should full reopening prove to be a step too far.

 

[MK Tom]

As a life member of both organisations,i don't really agree that the new S and D belittles or denigrates the Shillingstone or MSN projects in any way.Both are excellent organisations who already have achieved some truly wonderful things at their respective sites and in fairness to the new S and D,this has frequently been acknowledged on posts and photographs on their website,as has the Gartell railway.As i said in a previous post,i'm no expert on peak oil or future modes of transport and could not give a definitive answer of yes to the question of whether or not the S and D could ever fully reopen or in what timescale.However,there would seem to be some nascent development taking place at Midford and Spetisbury,similar to that of the early stages of the NDRHT and MSN and if they develop in a likewise fashion,that would be a considerable second prize as far as i'm concerned should full reopening prove to be a step too far.

Don't get me wrong I would be and am totally behind the idea of fully reopening the S&D both as an enthusiast and as someone who believes in sustainable transport. I just feel this website (the New S&D one) kind of pretends to be more than it is and uses questionable logic - that sort of would be ok in itself but I feel it takes away from the very serious preservation efforts, at MN and Shillingstone and at Midford too which I regret not including in my first post. The significant issue for reopening the entire S&D for me aside from the obvious question of cost regardless of whether you see the project as a preserved operation or a main line is the Gartell, which would have to either be bypassed or removed, the latter of which means undoing decades of hard work which is something I can't support.

 

[DAVE H]

Please read the latest idea on the "new s&d" . They are going to miraculously build a locomotive test shed for electric and steam using various guage tracks. All this will be on the old midford goods yard.

 

[MK Tom]

Please read the latest idea on the "new s&d" . They are going to miraculously build a locomotive test shed for electric and steam using various guage tracks. All this will be on the old midford goods yard.

I still get the overwhelming Northampton Underground ''one guy pretending to be a group'' effect from this site. Do you have a link for that?

BTW off-topic I know but the site I keep referring to is this gem - http://www.vintagetransport.org.uk/northamptonunderground/main.php?pageID=intro&styleSheet=default I make mention of it because it's one guy using plural pronouns and talking about complete fiction in realistic language, which is how the new S&D site reads to me too. I don't want to sound like I'm being harsh against it, as I said above I feel it detracts from the good, hard work of the three preservation groups (four counting Gartell) on the line. This is just how it reads to me.

 

[DAVE H]

Sorry dont have link but if you go on thier website it's the latest topic

 

[Eddystone]

I dont know what "eddystone" is smoking but it must be very "spiritual"

Well as long as it's not a hot box -I won't worry!

Dave-no arrogance intended. I never once said that the whole network will be rebuilt. I just implied that eventually the project would reach a stage of optima which would bring the restoration to a conclusion-at whatever point...

Midsomer and Shillingstone are doing a great job-they certainly don't need the new S&D to survive in their own right-but for sure it is not harming them! I note that many posters on this thread support anything S&D-good on them!

I just checked out the NUR site-reminds me of Peter Sellars declaring UDI in Pimlico! Seems that the perpetrator has a sense of humour. Come now -the new S&D does actually do stuff!

Meanwhile back at Midford- imaginations are running riot.