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New South Western franchise: Awarded to First/MTR

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samuelmorris

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Woe betide the less technically minded that have to convert their PDF oyster statements into JPEGs so the delay repay form will accept them. Every other TOC's online forms accept PDF, but not SWR it seems. Could be worse, as early as 4th September the system wasn't even operational :s

It'll be interesting to compare tonight's 45 min delay request of TfL to the one submitted to SWR 2 days beforehand. TfL do like to fight their delay claims but as long as you meet the very stringent critera it normally goes through.
 
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Goldfish62

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Woe betide the less technically minded that have to convert their PDF oyster statements into JPEGs so the delay repay form will accept them. Every other TOC's online forms accept PDF, but not SWR it seems. Could be worse, as early as 4th September the system wasn't even operational :s

It'll be interesting to compare tonight's 45 min delay request of TfL to the one submitted to SWR 2 days beforehand. TfL do like to fight their delay claims but as long as you meet the very stringent critera it normally goes through.
Just take a photo of the statement.
 

Goldfish62

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So after another pretty miserable experience, though not exactly the fault of SWR directly, I was eligible for another delay repay claim. The one from 5th September is still waiting for a manager's attention so that's by the by, but I thought this one might be easier. I got to keep the ticket, and I had the forethought to ask the TVM at Waterloo to print a receipt, so I was well-armed for a DR claim, or so I thought.

The service I used was this one:
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W37727/2017/10/14/advanced
because in my infinite wisdom I decided to let the previous Reading train past since this one was due to arrive at Waterloo sooner.
After being strongly encouraged to detrain at Putney following a man on the track & traction current off at Wandsworth Town (and fair play to them for allowing the doors to be opened at an unscheduled stop within 10 minutes), I used the service below to get back to Waterloo, but fundamentally, the delay was very similar to what it would have been if I'd stayed on the train.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W36894/2017/10/14/advanced

So that's either 39 or 41 minutes' delay, in either case clearly above 30.
As a result, because I was late getting back to Liverpool Street for the remainder of my journey, I missed the preceding train, blissfully unaware there was a 43 minute gap in the timetable which TfL did not advertise beforehand. As a result, I took the next train (not actually considering the possibility that an off-peak TfL service would skip Brentwood) and once I realised my mistake when the driver announced the omissions, rather than wait 40 minutes at gone midnight on an exposed platform somewhere, since the last westbound train of the day had already departed I used a taxi from Shenfield to Brentwood instead.

Not expecting much, I sent the DR form in citing the actual delay to my journey which ended up at 70 minutes, due to the missed connection. That would be accurate whether or not the taxi was used (longer in fact if I hadn't), so I filed a claim of '60+ minutes', attached my ticket, CC receipt, the taxi receipt and a covering letter explaining the entirety of the above, the reason for claiming what I did, in the hope that it might prompt them to actually give me the £5 extra back on top of the 60 minute claim at best, just give me a 60 minute claim at worst. If all else failed, I knew I was at least safe to get a 30 minute claim back. Does this seem reasonable?

Two days later I received an email back saying the claim had been rejected as the delay was under 30 minutes. My interpretation of that is that someone processing DR saw all the info attached to the claim and simply hit the reject button, 'nah not dealing with that, too complicated'.
I have of course disputed this but will have to wait 15 working days for a reply. Another 50 minute phone call is certainly not worth the effort given I stand to get £10 back at best. The wait time is so great that unless making a very high-value claim it'd be better to assume there is no telephone support. Fundamentally action only seems to be taken in response to emails anyway, even though their own emails ask you to call them.

Once again it's a fairly small amount of money, but the principle certainly leaves a very sour taste. Technically TfL are more to blame than SWR are as they can't prevent a man fallen onto the tracks, whereas TfL could certainly make more of an announcement about cutting services from the late night timetable, but since the only part of the journey that was officially delayed was on SWR, that's where I had to file the delay.

I (mercifully) only use SWR very occasionally these days, but given that I've already lost hours of my time dealing with this from just two round trips, what must it be like for the poor folk who commute on this route every day? Especially when you consider that the 'upgrade' works at Waterloo haven't actually had any impact on the two delays I've experienced. Frankly, based on my experience of SWR's customer service, coupled with the punctuality stats that I've witnessed from the botched Waterloo upgrade, I would say that SWR right now is as bad, if not worse than the height of the Southern industrial action. I don't say things like this lightly and am usually quite defensive of the railways, but at present I'd vote SWR as the worst TOC in the country. GTR are not a lot better, but I use their services a lot more often and although I'm almost always a little late, I don't have to put up with this.
I can't understand why your claim was rejected. It seems clear to me.

To be honest, I thought SWT's customer service was very poor so SWR are just continuing in that tradition.
 

Kite159

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Just be thankful the customer services haven't shifted from the in-house team based at Southampton(?) to Capita. Who like on GWR have no idea what they are doing some of the time with a large backlog of claims.
 

samuelmorris

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This is my point, it's a long-winded post but the rejection just typifies my experience of SWR since the takeover. I don't blame the TOC for the punctuality issues NR have caused. The customer service, however, is appalling. Bots automatically rejecting DR claims is annoying but has happened in the past with other TOCs (Greater Anglia for example). However, if you can call someone and have them put it right promptly it's less an issue. That the wait times are so severe at SWR calling them is not viable and that any customer service issue has to be escalated to management before action is taken means you have to wait several weeks for almost anything to get done.

Goldfish62 said:
Just take a photo of the statement.
Of course, but again, this is thinking about less technical people - someone who doesn't have a cameraphone and is using a regular PC or someone else's to fill the form in may not be able to do that. Downloading a PDF from the TfL site is a fairly straightforward process. It's just an unnecessary restriction, most likely stemming from technical incompetence than any policy.
 
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HarleyDavidson

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Panel 5 area kaput, it's the Barnes to Putney mainly affected, which is of course the core section.

The fault has been caused by the loss of the 660v power supply.
 

SWT_USER

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Delightful loss of signalling on the Windsor lines today...

Yes, just as the service was recovering after a 707 sat down at Richmond at the height of the morning peak with a door fault. Second delay repay claim incomming from me. Hopefully they've fixed it for later or it'll be a third.
 

Monty

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Panel 5 area kaput, it's the Barnes to Putney mainly affected, which is of course the core section.

The fault has been caused by the loss of the 660v power supply.

Didn't that section go down last week? Someone isn't using enough gaffer tape when making repairs! :lol:
 

HarleyDavidson

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Didn't that section go down last week? Someone isn't using enough gaffer tape when making repairs! :lol:

I think so. But the number of problems that SWR have experienced at the hands of NR recently is really unacceptable.
 

Olaf

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After looking at the numbers, I am wondering if there was some misplaced bravado that lead to excessive cuts to the maintenance budget for the Wessex Route - over and above what would be considered reasonable - either to achieve bonus objectives, and/or to provide funds for elsewhere in Network Rail in light of budget overruns.

It seems that many of the problems experienced over the last 10 years or so would have been avoided with a more rigorous maintenance regime. There was a reduction in budget to accommodate the wider NR over-spends, but were they excessive on the Wessex Route?

It seems the route generates more than enough to cover service and infrastructure but given the persistent failures more of these revenues should probably be retained on the route and used to boost the maintenance work and also to fund an interim ad-hoc task-force to recover from the current level of failures. Some action may already have been taken following more recent events but it is to early to tell if that is the case.
 

Joe Paxton

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Something that fills me with immense confidence in the new operator and their ability to communicate in a timely, accurate manner is the fact that SWR's launch offer of half-price Advance tickets features at the top of the offers page on their website, despite the fact that the offer ended a week ago on 2nd October...

Good to see that a full seventeen days after SWR's launch offer of half-price tickets expired, the page detailing it still exists and a link to it still features at the top of their offers page!
 

SpacePhoenix

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Don't know if it's track circuits used or axle counters, but whichever it is has failed at Waterloo:

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/174346.aspx

Due to a problem with the system that detects the presence of trains on sections of track at London Waterloo some lines are blocked.

What's Going On:
Train services running to and from this station may be cancelled, delayed by up to 20 minutes or revised. Disruption is expected until 22:30.

As a result, platforms 7 to 10 at London Waterloo are unavailable for use by trains. The failure had briefly been resolved but has now re-occurred.

In order to mitigate the delays and consequent congestion caused by this problem some short-notice alterations to services may be necessary
 

MartinB1

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Does anyone have any theories why the last few weeks have been particularly bad? High number of esr/tsr's around which have a semi permanent feel to them, not to mention the frequent signalling issues. This is without even including the issues at Waterloo, which I am presuming are just to be expected teething problems. Is it a case that so much effort has been put into Waterloo, that maintenance elsewhere has gone by the wayside somewhat?
 

Goldfish62

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Does anyone have any theories why the last few weeks have been particularly bad? High number of esr/tsr's around which have a semi permanent feel to them, not to mention the frequent signalling issues. This is without even including the issues at Waterloo, which I am presuming are just to be expected teething problems. Is it a case that so much effort has been put into Waterloo, that maintenance elsewhere has gone by the wayside somewhat?
Maybe so. Whatever the reason, it's unsustainable. Passenger numbers dropped by 8% on South Western between April and June this year, continuing the downward trend, and continued poor performance will only accelerate this.

Track circuit failure near Twickenham yesterday lunchtime caused chaos, just as punters were on their way to Ascot Champions Day.
 

700007

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Yeah my experiences with South Western Railway are a lot poorer now compared to the good days of South West Trains, but in fairness it is mainly infrastructure issues from Network Rail's side that is plaguing the network particularly when going in and out of London Waterloo.

I was privileged to meet Mr Mellors, the managing director of SWR this week and also with some train planners to talk about the consultation timetables and pass on a lot of thoughts. We spent a good hour and half going over this and trying to find a balance of reduced journey times whilst not reducing connectivity. I, myself, have a lot of mixed feelings about the consultation and luckily they seem to be backed by a lot of people here also also use the service frequently, from passengers, forums and other organisations along the South Western Railway network. I have offered to help, and this has been accepted, to do some small work with the planners to see if some services could implement an additional stop at stations that seem to be the losers from this consultation (for example, Hamworthy) on the London Waterloo to Weymouth / Portsmouth Harbour via Basingstoke services.

So far what I've got for the London Waterloo to Weymouth service is that it calls at Woking (Down only), Basingstoke (Up only), Winchester, Southampton Airport Parkway, Southampton Central, Brockenhurst, Bournemouth, Poole, Hamworthy, Wareham, Wool, Moreton, Dorchester South and Weymouth. I've tried really hard to get a stop in at Upwey but with 152 minutes running time this is seemingly very difficult at the moment. Any ideas on how this could work and any other realistic changes along this route you guys would like to see, because obviously 181 pages on this thread shows a lot of you have some golden knowledge about this route harvested inside of you that I'd love to see!
 

Goldfish62

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Yeah my experiences with South Western Railway are a lot poorer now compared to the good days of South West Trains, but in fairness it is mainly infrastructure issues from Network Rail's side that is plaguing the network particularly when going in and out of London Waterloo.

I was privileged to meet Mr Mellors, the managing director of SWR this week and also with some train planners to talk about the consultation timetables and pass on a lot of thoughts. We spent a good hour and half going over this and trying to find a balance of reduced journey times whilst not reducing connectivity. I, myself, have a lot of mixed feelings about the consultation and luckily they seem to be backed by a lot of people here also also use the service frequently, from passengers, forums and other organisations along the South Western Railway network. I have offered to help, and this has been accepted, to do some small work with the planners to see if some services could implement an additional stop at stations that seem to be the losers from this consultation (for example, Hamworthy) on the London Waterloo to Weymouth / Portsmouth Harbour via Basingstoke services.

So far what I've got for the London Waterloo to Weymouth service is that it calls at Woking (Down only), Basingstoke (Up only), Winchester, Southampton Airport Parkway, Southampton Central, Brockenhurst, Bournemouth, Poole, Hamworthy, Wareham, Wool, Moreton, Dorchester South and Weymouth. I've tried really hard to get a stop in at Upwey but with 152 minutes running time this is seemingly very difficult at the moment. Any ideas on how this could work and any other realistic changes along this route you guys would like to see, because obviously 181 pages on this thread shows a lot of you have some golden knowledge about this route harvested inside of you that I'd love to see!
Good for you. I hope they take notice. Are SWR sufficiently aware of some of the issues on the Windsor lines, eg poor connectivity from the Chertsey line and the 50% cut in peak services calling at Martins Heron?
 

700007

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Good for you. I hope they take notice. Are SWR sufficiently aware of some of the issues on the Windsor lines, eg poor connectivity from the Chertsey line and the 50% cut in peak services calling at Martins Heron?
I can raise that issue with them, considering Martins Heron is quite a busy station from my observation during the peak hours. The Chertsey line issue is one I have already raised and will also go over with them hopefully in December again, as a lot of complaints I've seen have been raised here, as connectivity is really poor and to go a short distance such as Syon Lane to Addlestone, you're now forced to change trains twice when at the moment a direct train service is provided.

I do feel some of these changes were poorly thought through and you only seem to be a gaining if you're going London Waterloo.....
 

Goldfish62

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I can raise that issue with them, considering Martins Heron is quite a busy station from my observation during the peak hours. The Chertsey line issue is one I have already raised and will also go over with them hopefully in December again, as a lot of complaints I've seen have been raised here, as connectivity is really poor and to go a short distance such as Syon Lane to Addlestone, you're now forced to change trains twice when at the moment a direct train service is provided.

I do feel some of these changes were poorly thought through and you only seem to be a gaining if you're going London Waterloo.....
Thanks, much appreciated. You're right that Martins Heron is a busy station in the peaks. Season ticket entries and exits are higher than both Virginia Water and Sunningdale which are proposed a 4tph all day service. I did respond to the consultation, but it sounds like you're in a better position to influence.

Re Syon Lane to Chertsey, the connectivity in the opposite direction is awful, with over 30 minutes of connection time.
 

43096

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Does anyone have any theories why the last few weeks have been particularly bad? High number of esr/tsr's around which have a semi permanent feel to them, not to mention the frequent signalling issues. This is without even including the issues at Waterloo, which I am presuming are just to be expected teething problems. Is it a case that so much effort has been put into Waterloo, that maintenance elsewhere has gone by the wayside somewhat?
The "end of SWT" supplement that was published by Modern Railways a couple of months back included a comment from Tim Shoveller about the sustained lack of infrastructure investment in the SWT/SWR region by NR. IIRC it was accompanied by a comment about the TOC (and its passengers) being the highest premium payer to the DfT.
 

700007

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Thanks, much appreciated. You're right that Martins Heron is a busy station in the peaks. Season ticket entries and exits are higher than both Virginia Water and Sunningdale which are proposed a 4tph all day service. I did respond to the consultation, but it sounds like you're in a better position to influence.

Re Syon Lane to Chertsey, the connectivity in the opposite direction is awful, with over 30 minutes of connection time.
No worries! I agree - this is just going to get people to use the bus instead from places like Staines (route 446 I think does the link to Chertsey?) as the waiting time will be too long and more hassle for what it's worth.

Please - this is to everybody - do respond to the consultation as well and then I can obviously back these points up as well and I'm sure other people will do too. It's a good time to make sure opinions are heard as much as possible rather than being swept under the rug.
 

FenMan

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Please - this is to everybody - do respond to the consultation as well and then I can obviously back these points up as well and I'm sure other people will do too. It's a good time to make sure opinions are heard as much as possible rather than being swept under the rug.

I am concerned about the possible loss of the current sensible interchange arrangements between SWR and GWR at Guildford, particularly when changing for services to/from stations to Reading.

I say "possible" as the draft timetable does not show GWR's services. Unless they are retimed, the result will be significantly extended connection times for travel to/from stations to Waterloo and probable conflicts at Shalford Junction and Ash.

I will respond directly to SWR and would be grateful if you could also raise this.
 

HowardGWR

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I am concerned about the possible loss of the current sensible interchange arrangements between SWR and GWR at Guildford, particularly when changing for services to/from stations to Reading.

I say "possible" as the draft timetable does not show GWR's services. Unless they are retimed, the result will be significantly extended connection times for travel to/from stations to Waterloo and probable conflicts at Shalford Junction and Ash.

I will respond directly to SWR and would be grateful if you could also raise this.

I certainly will. In earlier postings, I mentioned that if the Exeter 159 services will no longer stop at Clapham, then the route via Woking and Guildford could be preferable to reach Gatwick and Brighton from the stations west of Salisbury, changing onto GWR at Guildford. Now if the two firms are under one company, one would hope for a better interchange (I did write hope) and for an attractive fare offer. At present, you have to pay more for the Guildford route and there are no advance offers.
 

700007

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All comments here have been noted - will be passing these on!

This one was one of the more wishful thinking ideas - but I was wondering what are the possibilities that the proposed Southampton Central stopper service stopped at Swaythling, and then in addition was extended to Brockenhurst calling at Totton, Ashurst (New Forest) and Brockenhurst - with the train sitting in platform 2 at Brockenhurst arriving at xx:35. Northbound fast services would use platform 1, southbound fasts platform 3 and Lymington platform 4. The service would then form a London Waterloo stopping service departing Brockenhurst at xx:02 with the same calling pattern arriving into Southampton Central for xx:20 and departing at xx:22. It would still allow for a direct link from Totton and Ashurst (New Forest) to Southampton Airport (Parkway), Eastleigh, Winchester, Basingstoke etc as it does now and onwards to Clapham Junction and London Waterloo - allowing for new connections, whilst providing the two intermediate stations on the extension a second train per hour, something that particularly Totton I imagine, being a large residential suburb in the west of Southampton, would be much welcome to. The extension would only require 1 extra train-set (I imagine this is a 450/blue route, whether it is 4 or 8 cars is unclear).

It also provides a faster service to London Waterloo if passengers use this service - as they can change at Southampton Central for a ex-Poole service that would overtake and reach London Waterloo up to 18 minutes before the stopping service does. But it provides new, local links that may not be provided by bus or may be more convenient by train, for example Totton to Eastleigh or Winchester.

My issue is that due to signaling constraints between Totton and Poole, it might be difficult to run trains close together. This applies when the train leaves Brockenhurst at xx:02, this is likely to be two minutes right behind a CrossCountry service - would signalling allow that, especially as the XC service runs non-stop to Southampton Ctl whilst the stopper is only running to Ashurst (New Forest)?

Let me know your ideas on this on whether you think it would work or would be of any use. Many thanks in advance! :)
 

HarleyDavidson

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It isn't unknown for trains to "vanish" from the tracks in the New Forest area during the leaf fall season in the past and block working implemented, so perhaps a leaf fall timetable may be called for?

I know that years ago I was held at Brock for a sandite to re-appear at Totton as it had departed Brock some 10 mins or so in front and they wouldn't let me depart until it did re-appear, which it did a few minutes later.
 

700007

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Hmmmmm that's interesting. I imagine the timetable was changed to create a layover at Brockenhurst and then running time was increased slightly. The station is quite favourable for layovers by the train planners quite clearly (Poole stopping service), so having a lot of SW trains 'regulate' there allows them to bring out leaf-fall equipment, hold connections from Lymington and just even out the gaps between trains.
 
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