New Sub Class 357/3

[87015]

Rumours abound that the first refreshed high-density 357 will finally make an entry into service tomorrow as 357323 (ex 223)

 

[Kite159]

How can they make the 357s more high density than currently?

Ripping out the bays and putting all airline style seating?

 

[causton]

Will they look more inviting? The 357 interiors are too dark and dreary for my liking

 

[MCR247]

Will they look more inviting? The 357 interiors are too dark and dreary for my liking

Yes they are very dark

 

[chris11256]

They've made the seating 2+2 and added grab handles along the full length of the carriage. According to c2c twitter the units will be kept to Laindon starters/Tilbury line.

No official pictures but there's one or two on Twitter.

 

[Manchester77]

Quick search on Twitter brought this up: https://twitter.com/fgn_1993/status/625558974067310592 which I assume is the new high density set. Looks alright.

 

[theblackwatch]

Is it just the 357/2 fleet that is becoming high density/less seating?

 

[Bishopstone]

Excellent - strap hangers. These should feature on all new and refurbished inner and outer suburban stock.

I thought the Laindon starters were ceasing as part of a proposed timetable re-cast. Was this idea abandoned?

 

[westcoaster]

What are the new trains being built all about, I've not heard anything.

 

[pemma]

What are the new trains being built all about, I've not heard anything.

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=117963

I'm sure it's been mentioned in other threads as well.

 

[chris11256]

Excellent - strap hangers. These should feature on all new and refurbished inner and outer suburban stock.

I thought the Laindon starters were ceasing as part of a proposed timetable re-cast. Was this idea abandoned?

As part of the new timetable consultation 2/3 peak Laindon starters were reinstated.

I don't think they'd be suitable for the whole route. My train is sometimes full by Chalkwell. Wouldn't want less seats so more people have to stand for an hour.

Regarding the new trains, correct we've heard nothing beyond 'they're coming in 2019'.

 

[sprinterguy]

What are the new trains being built all about, I've not heard anything.

Seventeen new 4-car trains are to be introduced to the franchise between 2019 and 2024. It's on page 136 of the franchise agreement.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/438453/essex-thameside.pdf

The Franchisee shall procure that the rolling stock vehicles described in the above Tables, with the capacity and other characteristics referred to there, are available for deployment in the provision of the Passenger Services to the extent required by the Timetable and Train Plan during the periods referred to there.

 

[samuelmorris]

Looking at the link posted by NX on c2c's twitter page - it seems like 20% (so what, 15 units ish?) of the 357 fleet are being converted to 2+2 seating.

Anybody have any more details on when this will be complete, which units it will affect and which diagrams they're likely to be used on? I also wonder if perhaps these units are trialling the spec to which the impending new stock order will be built...

Edit: Bah, sorry, missed the other thread. I did look for it too, my apologies!

 

[fgwrich]

Quick search on Twitter brought this up: https://twitter.com/fgn_1993/status/625558974067310592 which I assume is the new high density set. Looks alright.

Oooo, Pink and Grey. Just like NX's Wessex Trains days again.

 

[pemma]

Oooo, Pink and Grey. Just like NX's Wessex Trains days again.

Or they may have got the idea of the pink grab handles from North Western Trains who did this with the 150s they refurbished: http://www.gbrailway.co.uk/Photogra...nteriors/i-p92fJth/0/XL/150-1-interior-XL.jpg

 

[JonathanH]

Oooo, Pink and Grey. Just like NX's Wessex Trains days again.

The 357/2s had different colour seating upholstery when new. When the 357/0 style green moquette replaced the original blue cloth seats, the pink grab handles weren't changed.

 

[swt_passenger]

I always think one of the problems with referring to 'density', is that unless you refer explicitly to what the changes are, it means different things to different people.

ISTM if you remove seats from a unit that used to be 2+3, to make it now 2+2, (like what was done to the SWT 455s), you end up with 'low density' seating, but 'high capacity' for standing. SO this isn't a 'high density' conversion, but a high capacity conversion...

IYSWIM...

 

[Bishopstone]

The 357/2s had different colour seating upholstery when new. When the 357/0 style green moquette replaced the original blue cloth seats, the pink grab handles weren't changed.

It was more violet than blue. A pretty striking colour, but what consigned it to an early grave was the lack of any pattern and relatively light shade, which meant stains became obvious very quickly.

 

[MK Tom]

The seats have a space for tray tables, but they haven't been fitted! Urgh. Otherwise good though.

 

[pemma]

The seats have a space for tray tables, but they haven't been fitted! Urgh. Otherwise good though.

I think those were the only seats being manufactured at the time. They are also fitted to refurbished 142s, 143s, 150s, 156s and 158s. All the Pacers that got them, plus some of the 150s weren't fitted with tables either.

The Northern 144s, which have a different type of seat, also have space for a table but no table fitted.

 

[samuelmorris]

My recollection was that for the short typical journeys c2c operate, seatback tables would cause problems with dwell times, but I could be wrong.

Seeing how often the centre seat in a 2+3 goes unused and how many standing passengers there are in the peaks, this is a welcome change. Thorpe Bay commuters and the likes complaining about it need to realise it's not the whole fleet being changed!

 

[GospelOak117]

Quick search on Twitter brought this up: https://twitter.com/fgn_1993/status/625558974067310592 which I assume is the new high density set. Looks alright.

So even when opened out a bit with 2+2 High capacity layout the electrostar body still looks to feel so narrow and claustrophobic. A desiro by comparison feels pleasingly spacious and airy.

 

[chris11256]

My recollection was that for the short typical journeys c2c operate, seatback tables would cause problems with dwell times, but I could be wrong.

Seeing how often the centre seat in a 2+3 goes unused and how many standing passengers there are in the peaks, this is a welcome change. Thorpe Bay commuters and the likes complaining about it need to realise it's not the whole fleet being changed!

I commute from Thorpe Bay daily. In morning peak I've never seen a middle seat go unused(in my particular carriage). It sometimes happens in evening peak, as I get the first stop Benfleet train, which is less popular.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

So even when opened out a bit with 2+2 High capacity layout the electrostar body still looks to feel so narrow and claustrophobic. A desiro by comparison feels pleasingly spacious and airy.

I've always found the Desiro very uncomfortable. Perhaps that's just me.

 

[samuelmorris]

It's slightly less common on 357s than other 2+3 stock but it's still something I see regularly, quite possibly because being closer to London the journey times don't make standing vs. sitting in a cramped seat such an issue. I'm just as guilty of it, plenty of times being crushed by two larger individuals has put me off spending 20 minutes like that, so often I prefer to stand.

On the whole I would argue that the experience in a Desiro is better because of the much better soundproofing, quieter traction motors and slightly less terrifying circuit breaker noise, but while I agree with the open vs claustrophobic comment, I don't actually mind the narrower feel of the 357s, it's almost 'cosy'. Likewise I find 357 seats more comfortable than, for example, 360 seats but there's not a huge difference imo.

 

[asylumxl]

I commute from Thorpe Bay daily. In morning peak I've never seen a middle seat go unused(in my particular carriage).

Don't worry, it's just a myth people on here like to perpetuate. I commute on TL and the middle seat is always used in my experience.

 

[Kite159]

So any news on the next 357/2 which will become a /3?

 

[chris11256]

So any news on the next 357/2 which will become a /3?

Not sure. I'm attending a passenger panel meeting this week and one of the agenda items is the metro style trains. Will update with any news I get!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The next metro style unit is coming out this week. Confirmed by c2c engineering director.

 

[W-on-Sea]

I like the 357s - I think the relative darkness of them gives a kind of sophisticated feel - that, and the air conditioning pumped up full makes them an unusually pleasant ride on a hot summer day, especially. (The fact the windows are enormous and cover almost the entire length of each carriage is pretty significant too). Sure, some longer distance trains are more comfortable (and..XC...some not), but of the commuter trains running on short-or-medium distance routes into London, I think they are probably the best.

I can definitely see the point of 2+2 seating on the shorter journeys - Tilbury/Laindon. Maybe some late night journeys through to Shoebury even too - it's not uncommon for some 4-car services at that time to be standing room only, at least between West Ham and Upminster.

But 3+2 seats for the full-on peak services over the whole line are pretty much essential too (says a former Westcliff to London commuter). Will be very interested to see what the new (or "new") trains they acquire turn out to be like. And I hope that their difference from what will then be the vast majority of c2c's fleet will not cause any problems or inefficiencies..

 

[chris11256]

They're only converting a few to 2+2. I think they said about 17 or so. The interesting thing is that this makes the line slightly more difficult operationally. They'll have to ensure that all the 373/3 units end up in the right places every night. Otherwise they'll get a barrage of complaints that a /3 is running a mainline service.

There's an article in this months Modern rail about c2c. It's suggested the 19 new trains might be based at Shoeburyness, as there's loads of free space.