New TfL "s" stock

[LMS6202]

Having seen some pictures of this new subsurface stock I quite like the looks of it both exterior and interior. However I think the cab is all wrong. Why, when most drivers are right handed, have they put the TBC on the left? This seems to me to be a no brainer in the same way that the C69 stock were cackhanded and awkward to drive. The only other thing I have against the new stock is that they are built by Bombardier and therefore will be utter rubbish.

What's your take on the new trains?

 

[Daniel]

I think many people's opinion on the S stock will be rather limited on it, as it's not been in service.

I believe the idea of having the TBC on the left is that it is fixed, so you can sit or stand whilst using it. Although, that said, with the A stock's position you could sit or stand..

 

[Drsatan]

I quite like the looks of it both exterior and interior. The only other thing I have against the new stock is that they are built by Bombardier and therefore will be utter rubbish.

What's your take on the new trains?

The interior looks nice, but the examples used on the Metropolitan line should have more seats. An 8 car formation only has 308 seats compared to an A-stock's 448. Many passengers will travel on an S-stock train used on the Metropolitan for longer than on most LU lines so more seating is preferable, unless TfL doesn't mind more standing passengers and more bad press. I read in Private Eye that the S-stock trains would have line-specific seating configurations but this was dropped on grounds of cost. In addition, Baker Street - Aylesbury, according to the same issue of Private Eye, will now be reduced to half-hourly in return for a half-hourly (or similar) Aldgate - Chesham service because 8-car S stock trains are too long for the bay platform at Chalfont & Latimer, and following the fiasco surrounding the collapse of Metronet, the possibility of extending the bay platform there's been shelved.

I'm sorry if this is unwarranted speculation but the above information was gleaned from the ' Signal Failures' column of an edition of Private Eye produced last year.

Remember that although Bombardier have made a couple of cock-ups, for instance the 220s/221s, (although it was partly Virgin XC's fault for not ordering them with enough coaches, and the SRA/DafT's fault for not sanctioning an additional order of centre coaches to augment the Voyager fleet), and the 357 'Electrostars', they have produced some of privatisation's best trains, like the 375/377 fleet and the 170s without too much fuss. Compare that with the late delivery and continued unreliability of the 180s (although they're still damn nice trains, and probably my favourite DMU ) built by Alstom.

 

[Mojo]

I read in Private Eye that the S-stock trains would have line-specific seating configurations but this was dropped on grounds of cost. In addition, Baker Street - Aylesbury, according to the same issue of Private Eye, will now be reduced to half-hourly in return for a half-hourly (or similar) Aldgate - Chesham service because 8-car S stock trains are too long for the bay platform at Chalfont & Latimer.

I think you mean Amersham being reduced to halfhourly, LU don't go to Aylesbury. This is correct though, and there were two rather extensive consultations over a year ago, one for Chesham, regarding withdrawing of the of the peak-through service which was largely rejected, and one regarding the withdrawl of the shuttle.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/media/newscentre/archive/11185.aspx

 

[LMS6202]

I think TfL are in for a bit of hassle with the "S" stock myself. The pax north of HH will certainly have something to say about the lack of seats and non opening windows. Look back at the furore that they had with "D" stock having no opening vents. As the folk out in the sticks of Amersham, Chesham etc will have contacts in high places I dare say that TfL/Bombardier will have to do a serious mod on these trains. Not to mention driver resistance if they don't like the wagons either.

Also I can't understand why they have only chosen 7/8 car units. Firstly 7 cars on the so-called Circle line will have a lot of bother with pull downs between High street and Edgware Road when folk at the back of the train couldn't get out and the train moves before they realise that they should have moved forward. They should have stuck to 6/7 car rakes and then all trains would have fitted the platforms of the route they are on. I am not sure if there isn't an EU directive that says all doors on Metro systems should be open at stations they call at for safety reasons which stomps on the 7 car circle trains. Having ****ed on TfL's fire I will wait and see what happens.

 

[Daniel]

and non opening windows.

...because they have 'real' air conditioning...

 

[LMS6202]

...because they have 'real' air conditioning...

Yes maybe they do. But I'd lay a small bet that there will still be complaint's about the fact that the windows don't open lad. If there is one thing I learnt when working or travelling on trains north of HH is that no matter what the weather somebody and sometimes several somebody's would open a window. Another thing will be the lack of high back rests to the seats. I still look forward to the fun.

What has happened here is a lack of DEEP consultation of the travellers in question. They have/are building these trains to a spec that is not flexible without really consulting the users at all.

 

[A60K]

I am not sure if there isn't an EU directive that says all doors on Metro systems should be open at stations they call at for safety reasons which stomps on the 7 car circle trains.

There is no such directive, either for metro or mainline systems. It's certainly not an ideal solution, but without a significant amount of extra investment in rebuilding stations it's the only way of increasing the capacity of the trains.

 

[jon0844]

Yes maybe they do. But I'd lay a small bet that there will still be complaint's about the fact that the windows don't open lad.

Maybe, but then you simply educate them and explain how air conditioning works. As people have air conditioning at work and in their car, I am sure most will understand and everyone else should only need to be told once!

The windows will almost certainly be openable by the use of a key in an emergency though.

 

[LMS6202]

The windows will almost certainly be openable by the use of a key in an emergency though.

Or by a well placed boot when stuck in a sweltering tunnel during disruptions no doubt.

 

[jon0844]

Well yes, but these are brand new trains so the air conditioning shouldn't fail.

Oh wait; Bombardier....! Perhaps the windows will fall out by themselves!

 

[LMS6202]

Well yes, but these are brand new trains so the air conditioning shouldn't fail.

Oh wait; Bombardier....! Perhaps the windows will fall out by themselves!

Actually aircon on a metro system is rather a waste of cash given that doors open and close on a average of 2 minutes generally [except on Met fasts] so whatever advantage aircon has in nullified

 

[Daniel]

Or by a well placed boot when stuck in a sweltering tunnel during disruptions no doubt.

I don't actually *think* it has openable windows - but I'm not sure.

But, whatever the weather, those at the north end of the met will always complain about something =)

 

[jon0844]

I bet there are a number of windows in each carriage that can be opened with a key. I think any modern train will have these, allowing a guard (or driver?) to come through and open them if a train is stuck and starts heating up. It's obviously not just temperature either, as there needs to be fresh air to breathe!

 

[bengley]

The train which is at Neaden is reportedly broken at the moment. Probably just teething problems, but I have no doubt that it will be delayed and won't be in service from September.

I was told by a Met driver that the A stock has another 25 years in it.

 

[A60K]

I was told by a Met driver that the A stock has another 25 years in it.

Not this old chestnut again! This driver, a qualified electrical and mechanical engineer is he - you do know that the maximum speed of A Stock had to be reduced because of damage to the bogie frames? They're not invincible, despite what the Neasden armchair rolling stock engineers might say!

 

[Daniel]

The train which is at Neaden is reportedly broken at the moment. Probably just teething problems, but I have no doubt that it will be delayed and won't be in service from September.

Hadn't heard that - did you get that from a Met driver aswell?

I was told by a Met driver that the A stock has another 25 years in it.

Note that although drivers believe they can last another 25 years, that doesn't mean they will be around that long. I doubt the new trains will be delayed by that long anyway..

 

[bengley]

Hadn't heard that - did you get that from a Met driver aswell?




Note that although drivers believe they can last another 25 years, that doesn't mean they will be around that long. I doubt the new trains will be delayed by that long anyway..

I get all of my intel from an inside source

 

[A60K]

I get all of my intel from an inside source

A very nostalgic and Luddite one at that!

 

[poshbakerloo]

I think the S Stock is gonna be quite good, I think the front cab end looks a bit odd tho, but other than that, it has AC which will be great!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Yes maybe they do. But I'd lay a small bet that there will still be complaint's about the fact that the windows don't open lad. If there is one thing I learnt when working or travelling on trains north of HH is that no matter what the weather somebody and sometimes several somebody's would open a window. Another thing will be the lack of high back rests to the seats. I still look forward to the fun.

What has happened here is a lack of DEEP consultation of the travellers in question. They have/are building these trains to a spec that is not flexible without really consulting the users at all.

It was only the A stock that had opening windows. All of the tube stock and C stock trains didn't have opening windows

 

[Daniel]

I get all of my intel from an inside source

Fair enough if you don't want to point out who, but don't forget just because someone says something and they work for the company doesn't mean what they're saying is gospel truth - (that in includes things that I say )

 

[bengley]

Fair enough if you don't want to point out who, but don't forget just because someone says something and they work for the company doesn't mean what they're saying is gospel truth - (that in includes things that I say )

It's weird because this certain driver knows an apprentice on the Underground called Daniel.

I wonder if it's you

 

[MCR247]

It was only the A stock that had opening windows. All of the tube stock and C stock trains didn't have opening windows

[/qoute]

No, D stock do

 

[A60K]

And all the 'Tube' stocks up until the 1959/62 Stocks (all now withdrawn) also had opening windows. The few trains of 1960 Stock were the first not to have opening windows, with the 1967 Stock being the first series production trains without.

Of course, if you count the end doors then every Underground stock has opening windows except for the S Stock

 

[Daniel]

It's weird because this certain driver knows an apprentice on the Underground called Daniel.

I wonder if it's you

Possible, there are two of us at the moment. But I won't be able to say if it's me or not because I don't know who the driver is! ;D

 

[campainr]

Does anyone know if/when more S-stock trains are heading down to London?

 

[Dstock7080]

I bet there are a number of windows in each carriage that can be opened with a key. I think any modern train will have these, allowing a guard (or driver?) to come through and open them if a train is stuck and starts heating up. It's obviously not just temperature either, as there needs to be fresh air to breathe!

There are no key operated windows on S Stock.

Does anyone know if/when more S-stock trains are heading down to London?

Hopefully "March" as the next one, with entry into service planned for "May".

 

[bengley]

I was told by a driver today that they have discovered that the S stock is too tall to fit through one of the tunnels in the city and they're going to have to lower the tracks or something. If this is the case, they really didn't plan ahead.

He did say it might just be a rumour going round and it might not be true though.

 

[Mojo]

I was told by a driver today that they have discovered that the S stock is too tall to fit through one of the tunnels in the city and they're going to have to lower the tracks or something. If this is the case, they really didn't plan ahead.

S stock is 3686mm high, D stock is 3620mm high, C stock is 3680mm high and A stock is 3890mm high. So if they really did get it wrong (I doubt it), their "wrongness" would be a whole 6mm.

 

[Old Timer]

Not this old chestnut again! This driver, a qualified electrical and mechanical engineer is he - you do know that the maximum speed of A Stock had to be reduced because of damage to the bogie frames? They're not invincible, despite what the Neasden armchair rolling stock engineers might say!

A shame, I wondered why the A stock was not running as fast as I remembered.

I have been out and about riding the A stock through manipulating my work activities when I am in the UK and having a whale of a time but I did notice that there is no lively running anymore

They seem to run around sedately, bit like a race horse put into a donkey race.

And I see those Jubilee drivers seem to enjoy racing the A's away from Wembley Park as well, and winning Blasted toy trains !"