New ticket gates in North of England

[BurtonM]

Ideally the gates could be programmed to allow people through say 10 mins prior to the advance ticket departure time. But alas this is not a priority at the moment and would be software dependent.

That's one way to cause a crush at somewhere like Piccadilly. Crowd the concourse until tickets work, then everyone stampedes the gateline a la London Euston to get on the train. Could you even get a train load of people through an automated barrier in time?
At other stations you're just clogging the concourse up while platforms are empty for no good reason.

 

[Starmill]

Because from my experience the people manning platforms 8-12 will wave you through with anything remotely ticket looking.

Hardly unusual! Pretty much universal of staff employed under the Carlisle Services contract, gates or no.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

"Softeare dependant" was the reason the barrirs were ripped out of Durham. The software needed updating but VTEC wasnt prepared to pay for the upgrade.

The folly is now I have seen a massive rise in ticketless travel out of Durham and unsuprisingly the barriers are increasingly unmanned in Newcastle too!

All about the cost and not the cost benefit....

 

[erk]

Ideally the gates could be programmed to allow people through say 10 mins prior to the advance ticket departure time.

Even if this were a good idea, could it actually be done? Is the booked departure time encoded on the magnetic stripe of an advance ticket?

 

[xotGD]

There will still be staff on hand for those. The protocol is that if you are delayed less than 3 hours you can still travel on the original ticket. Any more than that and you would need a brand new one.

Ideally the gates could be programmed to allow people through say 10 mins prior to the advance ticket departure time. But alas this is not a priority at the moment and would be software dependent.

The guard on my TPE from the airport earlier this week advised passengers that while if their flight was delayed they could use an Advance on a later train, this did not mean that if you landed early you could use it on an earlier train! Any such passengers were advised to bale at Piccadilly or else they'd have to buy a new ticket.

 

[55z]

TPEXP say that you can use your advance ticket from Manchester Airport up to 3½ hours after your nominated train if your flight is late but if your flight is early you have to wait for your nominated train but only on their trains.

 

[BMIFlyer]

Even if this were a good idea, could it actually be done? Is the booked departure time encoded on the magnetic stripe of an advance ticket?

Unsure on those but on mobile tickets the time is certainly programmed onto the QR code.

 

[Starmill]

Tickets with Aztec codes have that data and other things, but there is no way to add any more data to magstripe tickets.

 

[AY1975]

Regular user of Stalybridge here - do not agree. I have fairly serious doubts gates would work.
Also there's the matter that the famous buffet bar is on P4 , and gates would possibly cause access issues for that - I expect the proprietors would have a problem with that, as would people wanting to access the pub.

Exactly, there are a number of other stations where gates have caused access issues for station pubs and cafes. There is a separate thread on this at www.railforums.co.uk/threads/ticket-gates-station-pubs-and-cafes.157965/

 

[Bungle965]

Ticket gates are now in operation at Manchester Airport, while when I passed Dewsbury yesterday the barriers there also looked more or less completed.
Sam

 

[Spartacus]

I suspect there might be a couple more to go in on the Leeds-bound platform, they did groundwork for it outside the waiting room (locked out of use due to the works at the coldest time of year: thanks!), and only two on that platform seems a recipe for heavy congestion.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I suspect there might be a couple more to go in on the Leeds-bound platform, they did groundwork for it outside the waiting room (locked out of use due to the works at the coldest time of year: thanks!), and only two on that platform seems a recipe for heavy congestion.

The situation at Dewsbury is odd. I rarely use the Leeds-bound platform as there's rarely a time advantage for my journeys, but on the Westbound side I note that there is only one wide gate, which is also a recipe for congestion if there is someone exiting that needs it at the same time as someone entering.

 

[WatcherZero]

Dewsbury goes live end of Jan and Piccadilly in March.
15 gates at Airport went live on the 15th according to TPE press release, Metrolink/platform ones are apparently remotely monitored by CCTV with a button to talk to staff and a camera to show your ticket to.

 

[xotGD]

Bradford FS gates still appear to object to passengers doing a cross-Bradford transfer.

 

[Iskra]

It will be interesting to watch passenger figures on these lines now. Especially at Batley with the 3 minute journey to Dewsbury.

 

[pdq]

Dewsbury goes live end of Jan

Does anyone know how the lifts will be supervised? It looks like there's no barrier to prevent exit via the lifts then out of the station via the rear exit.

 

[47802]

Dewsbury goes live end of Jan and Piccadilly in March.
15 gates at Airport went live on the 15th according to TPE press release, Metrolink/platform ones are apparently remotely monitored by CCTV with a button to talk to staff and a camera to show your ticket to.

Ridiculous, I have not been to Dewsbury station for a few months so I have yet to see the shambles there, and lets put it this way if I pile off a train at peak period and have to queue to get out I will be kicking up a stink

 

[scrapy]

Does anyone know how the lifts will be supervised? It looks like there's no barrier to prevent exit via the lifts then out of the station via the rear exit.

The lift side of the bridge is within the 'paid' side of the gateline. There is a single wide gate remotely monitored between the two sides of the bridge.

 

[scrapy]

Ridiculous, I have not been to Dewsbury station for a few months so I have yet to see the shambles there, and lets put it this way if I pile off a train at peak period and have to queue to get out I will be kicking up a stink

It sounds like you've already made your mind up that you don't like it without seeing it. There will be 5 gates per platform which sounds plenty. Busier stations have fewer gates and manage perfectly well.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Ridiculous, I have not been to Dewsbury station for a few months so I have yet to see the shambles there, and lets put it this way if I pile off a train at peak period and have to queue to get out I will be kicking up a stink

If you've just arrived, I'd hope that you'd be less of a priority to the gateline staff than those intending to depart! However I share your concerns about congestion at the gatelines at both sides.

It sounds like you've already made your mind up that you don't like it without seeing it. There will be 5 gates per platform which sounds plenty. Busier stations have fewer gates and manage perfectly well.

Regulars will certainly take a bit of time to get used to the gates, especially as they're so narrow at both sides. My concern is that with only one wide gate on the P2 side, the gate attendants will be so busy preventing clashes there that they'll be overstretched. Barrow-in-Furness has just the one wide gateline and even on Wednesday evening after the rush, I noticed several instances of people wishing to use them in opposite directions at the same time.

Additionally the waiting room entrance on P1 is on the unpaid side of the gates, and with interchanges likely to increase with the new timetable, if those gates are remotely-monitored I worry about how staff will cope.

 

[47802]

If you've just arrived, I'd hope that you'd be less of a priority to the gateline staff than those intending to depart! However I share your concerns about congestion at the gatelines at both sides.


Regulars will certainly take a bit of time to get used to the gates, especially as they're so narrow at both sides. My concern is that with only one wide gate on the P2 side, the gate attendants will be so busy preventing clashes there that they'll be overstretched. Barrow-in-Furness has just the one wide gateline and even on Wednesday evening after the rush, I noticed several instances of people wishing to use them in opposite directions at the same time.

Additionally the waiting room entrance on P1 is on the unpaid side of the gates, and with interchanges likely to increase with the new timetable, if those gates are remotely-monitored I worry about how staff will cope.

When I used to commute regularly between Huddersfield and Dewsbury I used to sometimes have to dash off the train and run down to the bus station to get a connecting bus therefore today I would now be less than impressed waiting to get through the gates, I pay for a train ride not to be held on the station at the operators convienience. I was up at Barrow a couple of weeks ago a load piled off a 2 car dmu and all the gates were set to exit so nobody could get onto the station while this lot were trying to get out, some seemed to be have problems using the barriers and in the end the guy on the gate gave up and opened all the gates for people to get out, it seemed to me that the number of barriers was inadequate.

How many stations with barriers do we really need, there are barriers at Leeds and Huddersfield the main destinations from Dewsbury, the comment that Batley is only a short Distance, well yes true but how many people use the train from Batley to Dewsbury though when the bus service is more frequent and centre to centre.

Dewsbury has been an open station for a least 30+ years that I can remember is ticketless travel on this route really that much more of an issue now?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

It wasn't me that commented on the short distance between DEW and BTL. In any case, the powers that be have decided that gates are required:- I'd rather they weren't being installed in spaces that are too small (such as at Dewsbury) but we are where we are. The problem with only gating the stations that are easy is that it's then more difficult to enforce any penalty fares.
You make a good point about Dewsbury to Batley travel, but there is definitely a fair amount of people making that journey regularly, I'm just one of them. The bus is fine if you actually want the town centres, but not everyone does.
My main point is that those wishing to travel should be prioritised over those who have already travelled. Ideally, the two groups shouldn't be being pitted against each other though.

 

[Tetchytyke]

There will be 5 gates per platform which sounds plenty. Busier stations have fewer gates and manage perfectly well.

Two in and two out, with a bi-di wide gate?

They had that set up at Durham. It took 10 minutes to get off the platform if you were up front in coach B on a London train. Things were so bad that Virgin have now ripped the ticket gates out again. And good riddance.

There's nothing wrong with ticket barriers...in their place. Small entrance halls are not that place.

 

[47802]

Two in and two out, with a bi-di wide gate?

They had that set up at Durham. It took 10 minutes to get off the platform if you were up front in coach B on a London train. Things were so bad that Virgin have now ripped the ticket gates out again. And good riddance.

There's nothing wrong with ticket barriers...in their place. Small entrance halls are not that place.

Where's the like button.

 

[pdq]

The lift side of the bridge is within the 'paid' side of the gateline. There is a single wide gate remotely monitored between the two sides of the bridge.

Sorry, I've seen it now.
I wonder if the programming will allow a cyclist to come through the barriers to the bike shed on P1, then exit to go over the footbridge and re-enter at P2 for their train and vice-versa, especially with a ticket that ends at Dewsbury. Or to arrive at P2 and wait in the waiting room (on the outside of the barriers) for a connecting train then get back through to the platform.

 

[Darren R]

Ticket barriers are in the process of being installed at Blackburn and should be operational in the next few weeks. One small gateline serving all the platforms, situated in the subway at the bottom of the ramp up to platforms 1, 2 and 3, (where the ticket office is - or at least where the ticket office is whilst it lasts.) The subway is being split lengthways, to allow interchange between platforms without having to go through the barriers. The passenger lifts, which open into the subway on the public side of the new gateline, are also having their own ticket gates fitted immediately in front of the lift doors!

I can foresee queues forming back up the ramps to the platforms in the morning peak. Blackburn is a busy commuter destination in its own right (although obviously not on the same scale as Leeds or Manchester.) Virtually all of the stations it serves are unstated, with passengers buying tickets from the guard onboard (whilst we still can, that is.) I hope the new gates are able to scan the receipt-roll type tickets issued by Northern guards.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Ticket barriers are in the process of being installed at Blackburn and should be operational in the next few weeks. One small gateline serving all the platforms, situated in the subway at the bottom of the ramp up to platforms 1, 2 and 3, (where the ticket office is - or at least where the ticket office is whilst it lasts.) The subway is being split lengthways, to allow interchange between platforms without having to go through the barriers. The passenger lifts, which open into the subway on the public side of the new gateline, are also having their own ticket gates fitted immediately in front of the lift doors!

I can foresee queues forming back up the ramps to the platforms in the morning peak. Blackburn is a busy commuter destination in its own right (although obviously not on the same scale as Leeds or Manchester.) Virtually all of the stations it serves are unstated, with passengers buying tickets from the guard onboard (whilst we still can, that is.) I hope the new gates are able to scan the receipt-roll type tickets issued by Northern guards.

Am I misunderstanding?

How will a ticketless passenger, entering from the town centre, buy a ticket to get through the barriers in order to get to the ticket office?

Another Rochdale?

 

[johntea]

Can you now get season tickets with the Aztec code instead of having to pull them in and out of your ticket wallet every time for the barriers?

 

[Sankey Wire]

Chaotic scenes at Warrington Central, late last night. The barriers were in operation, albeit unsupervised. Both ticket machines were out of order, meaning that those who had been unable to purchase a ticket were stranded on either side of the plastic curtain.

I pushed the blue “call for information” button, but the operator didn’t seem to understand the situation. In the end, someone had to crawl, ninja-like beneath the barrier and alert the chap up in the office.

Not quite sure how it was allowed to happen, but a potentially dangerous situation!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

As with so many things on TPE and Northern, sounds like the cart and the horse are being repeatedly misaligned with each other.