New to rail industry Union help

[Shaggy]

There is a problem with it. Well run depots stay on top of it, but it exists. Obviously there is nothing to be done about the casual 'non-formal' arrangements or lack thereof, ie not helping out, but when there are physical attempts to segregate the messroom and even the printed roster, you have to ask is what these crew enforcing any better than what they are allegedly trying to defend?

I'm all for union representation; I am a trade union member. But just as important as the choice and freedom to join a trade union is the choice and freedom not to in a union-dominated industry. And that is something that is too often forgot. In my experience, its a generational thing, and that generation is passing into retirement. The railway will be better off without such militant unionists. Not to say that everyone in that such generation *is*, but *most* such unionists are from that generation.

I would agree entirely with this measured response from a clearly committed union member.

 

[jon91]

Rest assured for the Daily Fail readers that £324 wouldn't contribute much to the forwarding of 'socialist ideologies' after lawyers fees have been paid. :P

 

[ainsworth74]

Yesterday actually EC driver based in newcastle

That is for a qualified driver not a trainee driver like I said

And as a side note I'm noticing some new drivers often have a poor attitude towards other railway staff

Well that is a shame, you'd have thought a new starter (of any role) would think they might be able to pick something from those that are already in place!

Point taken about EC and Virgin but those jobs are rare and highly sought after.

I'm sure! I'd have thought that external vacancy that EC have at the moment will attract a bundle of applications.

 

[michael769]

The issue of unions is a quite emotive one with some very strong pro and anti views.

However it is important to remember that a union exists to promote the interests of its members. It is entirely in order for staff to question if their (or one they plan to join) is fulfilling that obligation, and if it is not to reconsider if their dues are money well spent or not.

To suggest that those who conclude that their interests are not being served have no place working on the railway merely promotes the widespread view the railway is often treated as a playground for union men rather than a public service. While that is not true the simple fact that such views exist only makes the process of getting a good deal for staff far more difficult and reinforcing such views can only be to the detriment of all staff union or otherwise, and I urge a-Driver to consider carefully how talking to a fellow railwayman on a public forum in such a manner reflects upon his union and his fellow members.

I have no idea if the rail unions would endorse such conduct but I am sad to say that reading such attutudes merely reinforces my view that a Union is something I want nothing to do with.

 

[A-driver]

The issue of unions is a quite emotive one with some very strong pro and anti views.

However it is important to remember that a union exists to promote the interests of its members. It is entirely in order for staff to question if their (or one they plan to join) is fulfilling that obligation, and if it is not to reconsider if their dues are money well spent or not.

To suggest that those who conclude that their interests are not being served have no place working on the railway merely promotes the widespread view the railway is often treated as a playground for union men rather than a public service. While that is not true the simple fact that such views exist only makes the process of getting a good deal for staff far more difficult and reinforcing such views can only be to the detriment of all staff union or otherwise, and I urge a-Driver to consider carefully how talking to a fellow railwayman on a public forum in such a manner reflects upon his union and his fellow members.

I have no idea if the rail unions would endorse such conduct but I am sad to say that reading such attutudes merely reinforces my view that a Union is something I want nothing to do with.

Whilst through the fact that everything being said here is through text and so open to interpretation plus it makes it difficult to put across what you actually mean sometimes I will make it clear that I am not intentionally bullying or picking on non union members. I would never and have never spoken a nasty word to any colleagues and their choice of union membership is of course up to them even though I do have strong views on it.

I have never seen bullying because of union membership take place anywhere on the railway and certainly wouldn't ever take part in it.

BUT, I feel very strongly that refusing to join a union is the wrong way to go about things. I'm not going through everything again but as I have already said, union membership has funded most of what attracts drivers to the job and sadly is all that continues to stop the job being eroded. If people feel so strongly against how unions operate then rather than weakening their overall power at protecting the grade and damaging the job in the process why not join them and fight for change properly? Unions are a democracy and are not bent/corrupt or anything like that. Any member can attend their branch meetings and put their views forward on any part of the job or union. If you feel the union spends to much time spreading the Marxist word and helping Cubans to improve their lives then you can say so and vote against such things. But for a driver to actually fight the union by not joining does no one any good and will have 1 main effect-to damage the job and conditions/salary which have been built up.

Like it or not, the unions are very important to the frontline grades on the railway and the only reason we still have the excellent conditions and pay we do is because of their continued presence. Without them we would see a huge drop in pay and a hugely increased workload. Forget the politics behind it, if you value the excellent conditions of the job you should support the union and then look to change it through democratic means.

 

[notadriver]

Well that is a shame, you'd have thought a new starter (of any role) would think they might be able to pick something from those that are already in place!

Yes - they are nice to other drivers. But not necessarily to others. The same thing happened to me as a guard. Was very difficult to chat to drivers and I really wanted to know what they did. I promised myself never to be like that.

 

[455driver]

I agree that some off the street drivers can have a certain superior attitude to 'lesser' staff which older drivers or those who climbed the ranks.

Certainly not all though.

And its always fun the first time they eff up!

 

[Clip]

I stand by what I said and still say it isn't bullying.

Why do most people become train drivers? Well it's not the sex, drugs &rock 'n roll lifestyle. It's generally the 45k salary for working 4days a week, excellent pension, good job security, employee benefits, travel facilities etc

Why do we have those things? Well thanks to years and years of union negotiation. I think it's only fair that if you are enjoying those benefits you contribute a small amount to the organisation who fought for and won those things in the first place and, more importantly, continue to fight for those to be protected.

If the union didn't exist, and that will happen if too many opt out of it, then those conditions and salary will very quickly diminish. The race to the bottom begins and then people start complaining that the job isn't worth it anymore.

Sorry but in this industry and in this type of work people are certainly stronger together.

You may say it is not, but you are saying that being in the union is part of the job - i.e do not join if you do not want to join the union. It is NOT part of the job - you would never get away with it actually being part of the job description whatsoever therefore it is not part of the job.

I am well aware that everyone on the railway has their T&Cs and pay well rewarded because of the unions thanks, I actively encourage my staff to join one and I am part of one myself so stop trying to get all high and mighty.

Maybe address some of the other points I made rather than singling out just one part.

There are an awful lot of people who dont have any real understanding of what a union is or does - their only knowledge is based upon their political beliefs and Daily Mail/Evening Standard type articles.

And its this sort of attitude that I just cannot stand. You dont know that. You are just making it up as you go along because you think that you are right in what you say when you have no idea about anyone else nor where they get their views from. In fact you could say that you attitude is just as deplorable as those who you try and deride and sneer at with your comment above.

Pathetic.

 

[455driver]

Yes - they are nice to other drivers. But not necessarily to others. The same thing happened to me as a guard. Was very difficult to chat to drivers and I really wanted to know what they did. I promised myself never to be like that.

I always try to speak to any member of staff when they are not busy (if they are then its just a quick ' alright mate') no matter what the grade, in fact they have more trouble shutting me up!

 

[A-driver]

You may say it is not, but you are saying that being in the union is part of the job - i.e do not join if you do not want to join the union. It is NOT part of the job - you would never get away with it actually being part of the job description whatsoever therefore it is not part of the job.

I am well aware that everyone on the railway has their T&Cs and pay well rewarded because of the unions thanks, I actively encourage my staff to join one and I am part of one myself so stop trying to get all high and mighty.

Maybe address some of the other points I made rather than singling out just one part.

There are an awful lot of people who dont have any real understanding of what a union is or does - their only knowledge is based upon their political beliefs and Daily Mail/Evening Standard type articles.[/QUOTE]

And its this sort of attitude that I just cannot stand. You dont know that. You are just making it up as you go along because you think that you are right in what you say when you have no idea about anyone else nor where they get their views from. In fact you could say that you attitude is just as deplorable as those who you try and deride and sneer at with your comment above.

Pathetic.

What other points did you make? And you need to read my last post on here anyway as I have made my position quite clear in that as to where these views come from.

And please indicate where I have got "all high and mighty" as I don't believe I have and don't like being accused of that kind of thing.

And the second paragraph you quoted was not from me so I can't comment.

 

[ainsworth74]

Yes - they are nice to other drivers. But not necessarily to others. The same thing happened to me as a guard. Was very difficult to chat to drivers and I really wanted to know what they did. I promised myself never to be like that.

Ah! I see what you mean now. Pretty sad that some people are like that

 

[A-driver]

Yesterday actually EC driver based in newcastle

That's for a qualified and is no more than am advert. They will already have people lined up for the job but advertise to make it look fair!

East coast have started recruiting in recommendations rather than applications.

 

[notadriver]

That's for a qualified and is no more than am advert. They will already have people lined up for the job but advertise to make it look fair!

East coast have started recruiting in recommendations rather than applications.

That is one hell of a job though!! £50k+ in Newcastle for a 35 hour week driving some of the fastest domestic trains in the UK and a massive route card stretching the entire length of the East Coast Main Line unless I'm mistaken.

Or you could drive for Megabus or National Express on £8 an hour

 

[Beveridges]

It's just my opinion - but to get railway experience. And as a side note I'm noticing some new drivers often have a poor attitude towards other railway staff

I don't understand where this comes from - especially in a job where your working alone most of the time.

At my place a lot of the (Depot) Drivers have a very poor attitude to Cleaners, yet they are alright with other Drivers, I think some (a lot) of people on the railway have a "superiority" thing about them where they won't talk to grades they consider "inferior", this attitude also extends to "old hands" thinking they are superior to "new starters" within the same grade where they think they can ignore them or talk down to them.

As for myself I always just treat people how I find them, regardless of grade, anyone who was rude to me when I started are still generally my enemies to this day. There are too many of the highly experienced MDD's who are "elitist" and talk down to anyone else, admittedly they are highly skilled and I couldn't do some of the things that they can do but I really do not like their attitude to "lesser" skilled staff including myself.