-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
New trains for East Midlands Franchise
- Thread starter supervc-10
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
RealTrains07
Established Member
- Joined
- 28 Feb 2019
- Messages
- 1,764
Must have been mistaken for 350/2
It's almost worth making it more expensive to hire 18/21 units so as to cover your storage costs for the last three units.
samuelmorris
Established Member
The 360/1 fleet is pretty much an ideal size - it's a no-brainer, assuming them only (currently) being 100mph units doesn't cause any problems.
They are going to be modded for 110mph operation, as per the West Midlands 350s.
swt_passenger
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 7 Apr 2010
- Messages
- 31,443
Running in 12 car formation remember... 6 diagrams would be needed in the circuit I reckon, and that’s with fairly quick turn rounds.
Last edited:
Kneedown
Established Member
Hopefully never. Hitachi is the way forward.
westcoaster
Established Member
I'm sure it says 12 in the peak only. Suggestions elsewhere they will live at Bedford cauldwell depot with outberthing at kettering.
swt_passenger
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 7 Apr 2010
- Messages
- 31,443
But even then, the peak capacity requirement nowadays lasts for about 3 hours. The aim AIUI from earlier discussions is that these will also be expected to provide the main capacity at all MML calling points between Kettering and London.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
That's certainly the plan. I wouldn't expect them to be shortening trains at the end of the morning peak and strengthening them in the afternoon at St Pancras or Bedford, as both are probably too busy to take extra empty stock moves. Most likely they'll do this at Kettering or Corby, making use of the stabling sidings now under construction at Kettering.
700007
Established Member
I agree in the never sentiment. We have enough Bombardier nonsense that barely works and is running late, damaging the reputation of the Rail industry. Even when they do enter service they're unreliable, uncomfortable and of a poor quality.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I'd rather Stadler if for no reason than that low-floor, step-free and gap-free access really should be mandatory for all new stock now. But I would agree Hitachi have a quality edge over Bombardier.
43096
On Moderation
- Joined
- 23 Nov 2015
- Messages
- 15,307
Unlike the Hitachi stuff that isn’t of great build quality, too often has to run on diesel rather than electric power, are chronically uncomfortable and ride like a drunk staggering home from the pub.
I’m not seeing how (s)Hitachi are any better.
700007
Established Member
I am personally a Siemens man myself, their trains consistently scream quality and barely seem to age. Those class 360s they're inheriting still feel and generally perform like they're brand new. All they need is a good refurbishment on the inside to bring them up ready for Corby work. But genuinely wouldn't believe they're 16 years old!
Agreed. But you have to pay for quality. What do Siemens have in the way of a 125mph offering?
LOL The Irony
On Moderation
Really? They don’t look or feel brand new at all. They would need a lot of work to get them to factory fresh status. They are definitely showing the amount of mileage they have done and the stop/start stop/start work they do. I genuinely don’t believe trains will last 30 odd years in future.
F Great Eastern
Established Member
Being maintained by Siemens directly has a positive effect as well as it avoids the TOC temptation to cut corners or to make short term maintenance decisions in order to save a few quid. The GA ones had a poor summer last year by their standards with unit availability over the previous 14 years, which just happened to coincide with some of the engineering for them being brought in-house.
They're good trains still though, but for sure the last 12-18 months they've been let go internally if you ask me, but a lot of the Greater Anglia stock has been, they've probably took a decision to cut back on the maintenance with them being off lease soon. With the 360s possibly going to another Abellio franchise it'll be interesting if they now step the maintenance up on them again but not for other departing stock.
RealTrains07
Established Member
- Joined
- 28 Feb 2019
- Messages
- 1,764
The oldest desiro unit type out there, its a shame siemens dont make them anymore. It will be nice to see EMR desiros in st pancras
1 issue with siemens is the price they charge though but same time better quality than bombardier could ever have
F Great Eastern
Established Member
The fact Greater Anglia have fitted dimmer more yellow internal lights to them all than First Great Eastern doesn't help them and neither does the recent poor maintenance of the air-conditioning systems. The colour scheme of a mix of green poles, purple carpets and black seats and some black carpet is also awful now, a real podge job of the original but that is nothing a proper refurbishment couldn't sort out.
They are 16 years old but the panels are still properly locked down and don't suffer from vibration (Bombardier can only wish for that!) they give a good ride, the passenger information system works well, they perform very well and fast and in general the bodywork is standing up very well, the seats are hardwearing, and I've never seen a problem with the doors, even if they are a little slow by today's standards.
I'd challenge you to find any other train that has lasted 16 years without any kind of refurbishment that is in as good nick. The only think they've had done to them since new is new seat covers and replacement carpet in the door area and some changes in First Class, they have never and will never can be repainted externally easily, which is a big factor in East Midlands choosing purple I'm told
F Great Eastern
Established Member
There's plenty of it's brothers and sisters throughout Europe if you need to see some. Vienna is the place to go to see lots of Siemens stuff
fgwrich
Established Member
The fact Greater Anglia have fitted dimmer more yellow internal lights to them all than First Great Eastern doesn't help them and neither does the recent poor maintenance of the air-conditioning systems. The colour scheme of a mix of green poles, purple carpets and black seats and some black carpet is also awful now, a real podge job of the original but that is nothing a proper refurbishment couldn't sort out.
They are 16 years old but the panels are still properly locked down and don't suffer from vibration (Bombardier can only wish for that!) they give a good ride, the passenger information system works well, they perform very well and fast and in general the bodywork is standing up very well, the seats are hardwearing, and I've never seen a problem with the doors, even if they are a little slow by today's standards.
I'd challenge you to find any other train that has lasted 16 years without any kind of refurbishment that is in as good nick. The only think they've had done to them since new is new seat covers and replacement carpet in the door area and some changes in First Class, they have never and will never can be repainted externally easily, which is a big factor in East Midlands choosing purple I'm told
Living firmly in South Western Railway land, I do completely agree with you. Despite the slightly lacklustre refurbishment by South Western Railway, the fleet still looks fresh and still feels like the best of all the new EMU fleets built since privatisation. I just wish SWRs choice of plug sockets were different to those installed, but at least they are finally receiving them. Other than that, I've rarely come across any door issues with the fleet, or any build quality issues for that matter either. Only the seat covers have showed some signs of wear and tear - which is easily replaced. Personally I feel sorry for Siemens, as the Desiro City doesn't seem to have picked up were the "Classic" Desiro left off, allowing Bombardier and Hitachi a foot in the door.
It almost feels odd taking about the Desiro "Classic" fleet and mentioning their age - They've stood up well compared to their electrostar brethren, with little refurbishment or interior changes since their introduction to First Great Eastern all those years ago. Despite their age, with a good thorough refurbishment, I reckon these 360s will serve the MML for many more years to come.
RealTrains07
Established Member
- Joined
- 28 Feb 2019
- Messages
- 1,764
The fact Greater Anglia have fitted dimmer more yellow internal lights to them all than First Great Eastern doesn't help them and neither does the recent poor maintenance of the air-conditioning systems. The colour scheme of a mix of green poles, purple carpets and black seats and some black carpet is also awful now, a real podge job of the original but that is nothing a proper refurbishment couldn't sort out.
They are 16 years old but the panels are still properly locked down and don't suffer from vibration (Bombardier can only wish for that!) they give a good ride, the passenger information system works well, they perform very well and fast and in general the bodywork is standing up very well, the seats are hardwearing, and I've never seen a problem with the doors, even if they are a little slow by today's standards.
I'd challenge you to find any other train that has lasted 16 years without any kind of refurbishment that is in as good nick. The only think they've had done to them since new is new seat covers and replacement carpet in the door area and some changes in First Class, they have never and will never can be repainted externally easily, which is a big factor in East Midlands choosing purple I'm told
Didnt stagecoach paint their desiro units, if so they manage with the exterior pretty well then?
The big question is if EMR is gonna have a vinyl or paint livery? Since abellio other counter parts seem to be a mix both??
RailWonderer
Established Member
It’s a big shame the 360s have been fitted with inferior lighting and cheap air con fixes because they are premium units.
Handlebars and panels need re-spraying, with new carpets and better air con and lighting and they’re as new.
Once had an out of order door a few months ago on a busy 4 car late afternoon service but besides that they never fail. Desiros are far superior to anything else.
Handlebars and panels need re-spraying, with new carpets and better air con and lighting and they’re as new.
Once had an out of order door a few months ago on a busy 4 car late afternoon service but besides that they never fail. Desiros are far superior to anything else.
I heard it’s the anti-vandal paint so that no one could graffiti them. Although NX proved with 360 115 that you can vinyl them. EMT could vinyl all 21 of them.
RealTrains07
Established Member
- Joined
- 28 Feb 2019
- Messages
- 1,764
Are the 158s leaving EMR franchise as well as 153 and 156??
F Great Eastern
Established Member
I think the Desiro City is a rather good product, just the versions we've had of it have interiors that are not of a great specification. The train and the build quality itself is rather good, it's just not being used to the potential that it could be. The Desiro ML in Austria is stunning and there are various other new types of Desiro going around Europe which show Siemens still have the ability to build good trains.
Got plenty of time left in them, the fact that Desiros are right at the top of the reliability tables year in year out shows you that they are only really mid life at the moment. There was a worry at one point that these could be parked up after 2020 which would be a travesty, but thankfully that looks unlikely to happen. They were a real step change over the 312s they replaced on FGE.
First Great Eastern put anti vandal/graffiti paint on them so to change it you need to sand them right down which I doubt anyone would be doing. Was a good thing at the time because there was worries about some locals spraying them with their 'artwork' which were never able to do it very easily. Trouble is for later franchisees it was a bit of a headache. Hence why 15 years later nobody has bothered with anything apart from a sole unit being vinyled then having it removed.
The air-con is the same as it was from new, it's just that they are not cleaned out and the vents are not kept as clear as they could be. The thing about Desiro air-conditioning is that it's not the quietest but it is very effective. Funny thing is that after using them for a decade I only notice the air-con makes a noise when I go through a neutral section, it's just background noise you switch off from when you're used to it.
You can see the difference in lighting here;
Current:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Briti...ile:The_Standard_Class_interior_of_360101.jpg
Old:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/93223...tY-8pao1m-J34yPq-ZWntaw-2d8wKzi-9csQqD-nFF7ns
I cannot say I agree. Like I said before they will need a lot of work to bring them back up to standard, not just a "refresh" but a complete rebuild. I would not go so far to say they are knackered but certainly need a rebuild to get them up to the standards future users will expect. There are lot and lots of issues that are cropping up now that will need to be sorted if they are to be worked hard for another decade.
ohgoditsjames
Member
Be nice if we can finally have 9 coach services from Sheffield like everywhere else in the country...
F Great Eastern
Established Member
Such as what? The only issues I see are the result of maintenance being let go to some degree because Grater Anglia didn't want to invest huge amounts in units that they would soon be getting rid of. Obviously in addition not renewing the full service maintenance contract with Siemens has had an impact also.
Hiring someone as an Engineering Director who had no railway experience,who oversaw a period that saw more franchise wide short forms over every kind of rolling stock than I've ever seen in the region also wasn't Abellio's brightest choice. Thankfully they have corrected that now.
I was on a class 379 recently and the vibrations on it and the state of the table fittings on the floor which the paint was coming away from was very poor for an 8 year old unit. I was very surprised. I like them for what they do, but they are wearing much more quickly than the 360s.
Meanwhile the 170s in Greater Anglia, even the ones just a year older, despite having a refurb recently, suffer from terrible vibrations, rattles, broken LED screens, poor sound on announcements and panels faded from white to very yellow that badly need replacing. They look about twice the age of the 360s, despite having a refurb which admittley has improved the seats and added power sockets and new panel covers under the windows.
Last edited:
- Status