New trains for the DLR?

[jopsuk]

Metro needs vehicles suitable for mixing with mainline trains.

 

[edwin_m]

Metro needs vehicles suitable for mixing with mainline trains.

The existing Metro vehicles do not meet heavy rail structural standards and are only allowed on the Sunderland line subject to enhanced train protection arrangements as would be required for tram-train routes. A DLR vehicle could in principle run under the same arrangements. However with the likely spread of 25kV electrification in the north-east it might be more appopriate for the Metro replaceent vehicles to have a transformer so the Sunderland line can be converted to 25kV at some stage.

A potential problem with re-using them on Metro would be the need to convert from a 750V to a 1500V supply. I'm not sure how the width and height compare with the standards for the Metro either.

 

[WatcherZero]

DLR is now seeking expressions of interest for the DLR fleet replacement.

They specify that they are looking for 40-50 units to replace 94 B92 vehicles and cater for increased demand in Royal Docks area, can be formed of single units but would prefer three car length fully walkthrough of 86.4 m (essentially replace existing triple unit formations with a single train), increase door length proportion from 20% to 30%, have fully longitudal seating and have the option for future fitment of air conditioning as long as it does not reduce saloon space. They are keeping the same control scheme though want the ability for automatic as well as manually released door operation and remote control from control centre in case of emergency. Performance characteristics listed same as existing units though specify they don't need track brakes.

 

[edwin_m]

That said, don't forget that the original DLR P86 units are now running on and off street in Essen, Germany.

I've just noticed/remembered that the P86 was built with a one-piece windscreen and no end door. All the B-series units have end doors which means the windscreen is split into three by two quite thick structural members. The visibility to the right of the current driver's position is therefore considerably worse, and if the driver was moved to the centre as with most street trams the forward visibility would be very poor indeed. I think these items would have to be removed to allow street running, which may not be practicable given the likely effect on the structural strength.

As an aside, why does the DLR need end doors? I would have thought as a modern system there would be a side walkway everywhere, and even staff would only be able to use the end doors with the train stopped. Is there a link to the new EoI? I'd be interested to see if the new longer trains, that won't normally run coupled together, also need end doors.

 

[Nym]

Changing ends in depots needs the end doors...

And I'm asusming you mean all the B90, B92 and B2K stocks when quoting that number, so the B07 stock will remain in service.

Will these new trains perhaps see a new depot being built and the B07 stock relegated to the Stratford and Tower Gateway routes?

Finally, performance matching of current stock, is that the current B9x(K) stocks or the B07 stock, that has a better acceleration and braking profile?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Fully longitudinal seating seems unnecessary on the DLR... I can see the point in the middle of the train, but not so much at the ends of the set. Surely a S8-style hybrid arrangement would be better?

 

[WatcherZero]

Changing ends in depots needs the end doors...

And I'm asusming you mean all the B90, B92 and B2K stocks when quoting that number, so the B07 stock will remain in service.

Will these new trains perhaps see a new depot being built and the B07 stock relegated to the Stratford and Tower Gateway routes?

Finally, performance matching of current stock, is that the current B9x(K) stocks or the B07 stock, that has a better acceleration and braking profile?

Was the term TfL use in their Invitation of expressions of interest.

DLR also has a need to consider replacement of its existing 94 B92 vehicles (each 28.8 m long). These LRVs are generally operated as three-car trains (each 86.4 m long).

Edit, full OJEU notice

Section I: Contracting entity


I.1) Name, addresses and contact point(s)

Docklands Light Railway Limited
PO Box 154, Castor Lane, Poplar
For the attention of: Ke Tran
E14 0BL London
UNITED KINGDOM
Telephone: +44 2073639755
E-mail: [email protected]
Fax: +44 2073639708

Internet address(es):

General address of the contracting entity: www.dlr.co.uk

Further information can be obtained from: The above mentioned contact point(s)


I.2) Main activity

Railway services

I.3) Contract award on behalf of other contracting entities

The contracting entity is purchasing on behalf of other contracting entities: no


Section II: Object of the contract

II.1)Title attributed to the contract by the contracting entity:

DLR Rolling Stock.

II.2) Type of contract

Works

II.3) Short description of the contract or purchase(s):

Passenger journeys on the Docklands Light Railway have been increasing by approximately 8 % per annum with 110 000 000 journeys in the year to March 2015. This level of increase is estimated to continue particularly in the Royal Docks area resulting in the need to enhance services and therefore procure additional rolling stock to serve that demand.
DLR also has a need to consider replacement of its existing 94 B92 vehicles (each 28.8 m long). These LRVs are generally operated as three-car trains (each 86.4 m long).
As part of DLRL's feasibility and strategic work, and with a view towards reduced journey times, improved ambience and reduced whole life costs DLRL is considering the possibility for a new design of rolling stock with a fixed length of 86.4 m (New Train).
DLRL has identified the following features to enable the prospective New Train to meet these objectives:
— fixed formation, walk through train,
— wide open gangways between carriages,
— minimized energy consumption,
— saloon air cooling/heating equipment that does not reduce passenger space,
— driverless operation,
— very high reliability.
A more detailed description can be found in Section VI.2.
DLRL is seeking technical dialogue with established rolling stock manufacturers to assist it in identifying the optimum technical solution to meet its requirements. Options to be considered will include like for like single unit replacement or (possibly more likely) a single full length train (New Train, 86.4 m). The likely order size could be 40—50 New Trains (equivalent to 120—150 single units).
For the purposes of this PIN, DLRL wishes to engage only with rolling stock manufacturers who are capable of delivering a complete rolling stock solution in its entirety, rather than manufacturers of component parts. Any entity which is interested in participating in such a dialogue should contact DLRL at the address set out above.
This is not a stage in a formal competitive process, and it is not the purpose of this dialogue to procure any part of the solution. Rather, the purpose is to provide DLRL with information on what is available and being developed in the marketplace to allow DLRL to develop a strategic solution. Participation in this dialogue is not a prerequisite to, and will not prejudice, participation in any future competitive process.


II.4) Common procurement vocabulary (CPV)

34620000, 34622200, 34622400


II.5) Scheduled date for start of award procedures and duration of the contract

II.6) Estimated cost and main terms of financing

II.6.1) Initial estimated cost

II.6.2) Main financing conditions and payment arrangements and/or reference to the relevant provisions governing them:

II.7) Information about Government Procurement Agreement (GPA)

II.8) Additional information:

Nothing in this PIN constitutes a commitment to award any contract, other agreement, or arrangement to any person or entity.
The information contained in this PIN (and any supplementary information) has been prepared by DLRL in good faith to assist established rolling-stock manufacturers in understanding the DLR Rolling Stock. It does not purport to be comprehensive, to have been independently verified, or to contain all of the information that a person or entity may require in relation to any future procurement process.
DLRL reserves the right at any time to issue further instructions, updates or amendments either to the instructions and information contained in this PIN or to anything subsequently provided pursuant to this PIN or any procurement related to the DLR Rolling Stock.
Neither DLRL, nor any member of the TfL Group (nor their directors, partners, employees, agents or advisers), has any liability or responsibility for the adequacy, accuracy, or completeness of, and makes no representation or warranty (express or implied) with respect to, the information contained in the PIN or with respect to any written or oral information made or to be made available to any person or entity or its professional advisers, and any liability therefore is excluded.
This notice is for information purposes only, and where required, a separate Contract OJEU Notice will be issued to start any formal pre-qualification process.



Section VI: Complementary information


VI.1) Information about European Union funds

The contract is related to a project and/or programme financed by European Union funds: no

VI.2) Additional information:

New Train Characteristics:
— Complete train length — 86.4 m, over coupler faces,
— Height (static) — 3,515 mm, above rail level Width (static) — 2,650 mm,
— Floor Height (static) — 1,025 mm,
— Maximum Laden Axle Load (Static) — 100 kN, or less Maximum Speed — 80 kph,
— Maximum Acceleration — 1.3 m/s² on level track, from standstill to 20 km/h, over the load range M1 to M3,
— Full service brake rate — 1.3 m/s² on level track, from 80 km/h to standstill up to M4 load,
— Maximum Brake Rate (Emergency) — 0.92 m/s² on level track, from 80 km/h to standstill up to M4 load with a worst case single failure in the braking system,
— Regenerative Braking — Required Track Brakes — Not required,
— Couple Height — 650 mm, above rail level,
— Mechanical Coupler — Compatible with Scharfenberg pattern as fitted to existing vehicles Emergency Egress — A means of exiting the end of train to track level,
— Push Out Capability — Ability for an empty train to push a M3 loaded train up a 6 % gradient,
— The train will be compatible with Thales Seltrac Signalling System,
— The train should be have the option to either automatically close the doors in ATO mode or allow the Passenger Service Agent to initiate door closure in ATO mode,
— Trains will have the facilities to allow the Passenger Service Agent to manually operate the train under the supervision of the Seltrac system (ATP mode),
— Trains will have the facilities to move manually, independent of the Seltrac system (Emergency Shunt mode),
— Train will have the facilities to be moved manually, independent of the Seltrac system (Emergency Shunt mode),
— Ability to transmit CCTV information to control centre in real time,
— Through Gangway between vehicles.
Doors – The existing DLR doors are 1,500 mm wide, with four sets per 28 m vehicle. This is equivalent to ~20 % ratio. DLRL would envisage the new train having a ratio of ~30 %, more consistent with Metro style operation
Passenger Saloon:
— Real-time Auto-Visual Passenger Information System,
— CCTV: Internal full coverage of the saloon and External Look Forward,
— Longitudinal Metro Seating,
— Air Conditioning,
— Vehicle health monitor,
— Doors – The existing DLR doors are 1,500 mm wide, with four sets per 28 m vehicle. This is equivalent to ~ 20 % ratio. DLRL would envisage the new train having a ratio of ~ 30 %, more consistent with Metro style operation
Infrastructure Characteristics:
— Track Gauge — 1,435 mm,
— Minimum Curve Radius — 40 m radius (38 m in Depots),
— Maximum Gradient — 6 %,
— Power Supply — 750 volts DC, nominal Operation:
Reliability:
— The train shall be capable of high levels of reliability. This shall include design features to minimise the risks associated with single point failures.
— The train shall be fitted with a remote monitoring system to allow the Control Centre to monitor the safe, reliable operation of the train in service, in real time, and provide assistance to the on-train Passenger Service Assistant in the event of a problem.
Standards & Assurance:
— The train shall comply with British and European Legislation,
— The train shall comply with the relevant British & European Standards, including compliance with BS-EN45545 for Fire Compliance,
— RVAR 2010 Compliant,
— Assurance shall be accordance with the requirements of ROGS.


VI.3) Estimated total value of supplies or services contract(s)

VI.4) Date of dispatch of this notice:

20.4.2015

 

[Via Bank]

Fully longitudinal seating seems unnecessary on the DLR... I can see the point in the middle of the train, but not so much at the ends of the set. Surely a S8-style hybrid arrangement would be better?

The "drivers' seats" at the ends would need to remain anyway, since the new trains will have to be capable of ATP (manual/supervised) operation.

 

[Clip]

Fully longitudinal seating seems unnecessary on the DLR... I can see the point in the middle of the train, but not so much at the ends of the set. Surely a S8-style hybrid arrangement would be better?

Careful what you wish for - the roll out of this is coming very soon on the B2007 stock.

 

[Busaholic]

Fully longitudinal seating seems unnecessary on the DLR... I can see the point in the middle of the train, but not so much at the ends of the set. Surely a S8-style hybrid arrangement would be better?

Seeing the expected growth in passenger numbers on the DLR I'd imagine they're preparing for crush conditions to be the norm, except maybe to Beckton!

 

[Clip]

Seeing the expected growth in passenger numbers on the DLR I'd imagine they're preparing for crush conditions to be the norm, except maybe to Beckton!

Don't know to Beckton - by the time these new units come on line the East route is going to be very well used ( it is now in the morning peaks for UEL and Excel) but the Royal docks area will be well advanced in its building project with some areas already up and running - that's a lot more people to cater for.

 

[Busaholic]

Don't know to Beckton - by the time these new units come on line the East route is going to be very well used ( it is now in the morning peaks for UEL and Excel) but the Royal docks area will be well advanced in its building project with some areas already up and running - that's a lot more people to cater for.

At some stage serious thought is going to have to be given to double tracking on the core sections - a bit like the additional route through Manchester city centre now being built. Tower Gateway might have to become a more important terminus, though, as there's surely no space at Bank?

 

[WestCountry]

Don't know to Beckton - by the time these new units come on line the East route is going to be very well used ( it is now in the morning peaks for UEL and Excel) but the Royal docks area will be well advanced in its building project with some areas already up and running - that's a lot more people to cater for.

I would expect Custom House station on Crossrail to take a lot of the load into central London (and maybe to Canary Wharf, although the time to reach the tunnels at the latter might outweigh the shorter journey time).

 

[SpacePhoenix]

How many of the stations could realistically be extended to handle 4 car units (or are all the stations already a physically as long as they could ever be?

 

[Nym]

How many of the stations could realistically be extended to handle 4 car units (or are all the stations already a physically as long as they could ever be?

Most of them can be extended without too much issue.

However,

The latest extension at Westferry has resulted in the full speed overlap of the platform stop point is beyond the fouling point of the points locking for the divergence for the flyover.

So for the train to be able to pull into the platform without stopping and starting again, (as you cannot partially berth in any platform on the DLR signalling system), so you need to have the preceding train past the clearance point of the S&C area, then points move lock to lock, before the train can begin to berth in full speed, or it must approach at under a slow speed threshold.

Any platform extensions would need to go East due to the strengthening of the old L&BR viaduct, so it would need significant work there.

This is before one even considers the deep level platforms...(!)

 

[Busaholic]

How many of the stations could realistically be extended to handle 4 car units (or are all the stations already a physically as long as they could ever be?

I understood that the extension to 3 cars only was not because of innate conservatism but because that was all the system as a whole could handle without radical i.e. mega expensive overhaul, including the underground section through Greenwich.

 

[edwin_m]

Cutty Sark already needs SDO at 3-car length doesn't it?

I imagine Crossrail will provide a lot of relief to the busiest DLR route by removing many of the passengers between Canary Wharf and central London, and some will no doubt change at Abbey Wood instead of Woolwich. On other routes there may still be scope to increase frequencies without running more trains west of Westferry.

 

[PermitToTravel]

Cutty Sark already needs SDO at 3-car length doesn't it?

Yes it does

 

[Clip]

I would expect Custom House station on Crossrail to take a lot of the load into central London (and maybe to Canary Wharf, although the time to reach the tunnels at the latter might outweigh the shorter journey time).

They'll take a fair amount of people yeah but there will still be those who come from the South East who will come via ldn bridge/canning town way.

I believe there is also no room at Woolwich for 4 cars either as the crossover is just outside the station isn't it?

 

[Hophead]

I believe there is also no room at Woolwich for 4 cars either as the crossover is just outside the station isn't it?

Not just that but the line turns sharp left and heads downhill to get under the river just a few seconds out of the station.

 

[Busaholic]

Not just that but the line turns sharp left and heads downhill to get under the river just a few seconds out of the station.

Time for Plan B. What, there isn't a Plan B?!

 

[Clip]

If anyone is out and about in London this weekend then I would say keep your eyes out for vehicle 111 on the DLR

 

[jopsuk]

Time for Plan B. What, there isn't a Plan B?!

Well, there is for the Woolwich & Beckton Branch. Sort of. Crossrail will provide a lot of extra capacity on that corridor.

 

[MCR247]

If anyone is out and about in London this weekend then I would say keep your eyes out for vehicle 111 on the DLR

Why? And just this weekend?

 

[Clip]

Why? And just this weekend?

New longitudinal seating so the missus said and its just the first one to be done. More will follow at about 2 a week she claimed.

 

[Busaholic]

Well, there is for the Woolwich & Beckton Branch. Sort of. Crossrail will provide a lot of extra capacity on that corridor.

Crossrail will be a real boon for Woolwich and points a little bit further east - not wanting to overestimate it, but profound changes to travel habits may ensue, if South Eastern don't do their damnedest to thwart them. SE suburban must be the absolute priority for the next TfL takeover: could probably be achieved in principle before Johnson B. leaves mayoral office if he really gets his teeth into it with full support from Hendy. Boris's brother Jo is MP for Orpington, don't forget, as well as a Minister.

Beckton may be the tumbleweed branch, but surely housing developments south of Barking will have to be served by an extension?

 

[edwin_m]

Beckton may be the tumbleweed branch, but surely housing developments south of Barking will have to be served by an extension?

Wasn't the Barking Riverside heavy rail extension preferred over extending the Beckton branch to serve the same area?

 

[Busaholic]

Wasn't the Barking Riverside heavy rail extension preferred over extending the Beckton branch to serve the same area?

Apparently so, but quite how many residents of South Barking desire a direct connection to South Tottenham I'm not sure. Can't help feeling BR is merely a staging post to somewhere further south, perhaps even to the civilised side of the Thames. Latter remark tongue-in-cheek, by the way. I'm not Thamesmead's greatest lover.

 

[Clip]

Beckton may be the tumbleweed branch, but surely housing developments south of Barking will have to be served by an extension?

Give it a couple of years though and it wont be given that the whole dockside there is being redeveloped. The DLR extension has been kicked to the kerb now as far as I am aware and is for the LO/Crossrail/TflRail/whatever its called this week

 

[edwin_m]

Apparently so, but quite how many residents of South Barking desire a direct connection to South Tottenham I'm not sure. Can't help feeling BR is merely a staging post to somewhere further south, perhaps even to the civilised side of the Thames. Latter remark tongue-in-cheek, by the way. I'm not Thamesmead's greatest lover.

One or two stops to Barking then three more to Fenchurch Street, turn up and go service on both legs. Versus about 14 intermediate stops to Tower Gateway?