Newbie urgent: what's my right on delay repay if I take another train rather than booked on a flexible ticket and missed a connection?

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miklcct

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I'm on the 18:30 Southern service from Brighton to Southampton arriving at 20:19 at platform 2A intending to connect to 20:25 Southwestern train at platform 3 to Weymouth, getting off at Bournemouth at 21:01. The train is running late now, with latest ETA 20:24 at Southampton. I doubt if I can make the connection on time. The next available train is 20:28 train to Poole, arriving Bournemouth at 21:14.

I'm on one off peak day return ticket, with booking made on 19:30 Brighton to Southampton connecting to 21:25 departure to Bournemouth, not the train I'm currently taking.

If I can make the 20:28 train and there is no further delay, the arrival in Bournemouth will be within 15 minutes, under the repay threshold. However, what's my right if the following happens and if I can claim repay, under which company I should file a claim?

1. Platforms 2-3 is a cross platform interchange. Is it possible I can make the 20:25 train to Weymouth? (Update 19:53 - the train is now 6 minutes late, leaving 0 minutes on my connection)

2. if the Southern does arrive at 20:24, I make the 20:28 to Poole but it is delayed further by 5 minutes, getting my total delay over the whole trip over 15 minutes?

3. if the Southern delays further such that I can't even make the 20:28 Poole, and board the 20:45 to Bournemouth?

4. if the Southern delays further and I can't make the 20:28 Poole, and I decide to break the journey as a result, and take a later train to Bournemouth?
 
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alistairlees

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Southern in all cases, as they caused the initial delay.

In point 4 though you can only claim for delay that would have happened had you got on the first available train at Southampton. Not everyone agrees with this interpretation.

[edited as the OP subsequently changed the numbering in their post, making the reference incorrect]
 
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Bletchleyite

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As a general point if you book a walk up ticket with an itinerary you are in no way obliged to stick with that itinerary, and as far as Delay Repay goes you can take any Permitted Route you like on any timing (provided minimum connection times are met) and Delay Repay would apply as per what you intended to do at the point you made the journey.

In the case of 4, if you break your journey and continue later then you are not entitled to Delay Repay to the final destination but would be entitled to it up to the break point, I believe.
 

miklcct

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Southern in all cases, as they caused the initial delay.

In point 3 though you can only claim for delay that would have happened had you got on the first available train at Southampton. Not everyone agrees with this interpretation.
I need a clarification on point 3. The MCT at Southampton is 5 minutes. In such case if the first available train is under 5 minutes after the delayed first leg and I fail to make it, am I entitled to claim delay to the next available train afterwards?
 

AlterEgo

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In the case of 4, if you break your journey and continue later then you are not entitled to Delay Repay to the final destination but would be entitled to it up to the break point, I believe.
Contentious, because delay repay applies to the journey and breaking your journey still means you've made one journey with one arrival time.
 

Hadders

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You can claim if there overall delay to your journey is more than 15 minutes. You are due to arrive at Weymouth at 21:59 and so you can claim delay repay if your actual arrival is later than 22:14.
 

Bletchleyite

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Contentious, because delay repay applies to the journey and breaking your journey still means you've made one journey with one arrival time.

To me the pragmatic answer to this is to stick in a claim specifying the first train you could have taken, and an explanatory note that you actually waited until a bit later due to the delay and not wanting to cram into the first train out.

People are being prosecuted for fraudulent claims so it is necessary to be careful.
 

alistairlees

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I need a clarification on point 3. The MCT at Southampton is 5 minutes. In such case if the first available train is under 5 minutes after the delayed first leg and I fail to make it, am I entitled to claim delay to the next available train afterwards?
The minimum connection time is 4 minutes if the trains are Southern/ Southwestern.

In any case you are not obliged to run. Just try to make it.
 

miklcct

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You can claim if there overall delay to your journey is more than 15 minutes. You are due to arrive at Weymouth at 21:59 and so you can claim delay repay if your actual arrival is later than 22:14.
I'm not taking the ticketed train here. I took the train an hour early from Brighton.
 

swt_passenger

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In my experience a SN service can often make up 5 or 6 mins between Fareham and Southampton, but what I’d be making sure of on approach to Southampton is that they haven’t moved the Weymouth/Poole train to the usual P4, that could snooker you at the last minute.

(For those who haven’t realised, the Poole splits from the Weymouth, so won’t leave until about 5 mins after arrival whatever happens.)
 

miklcct

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Use one of the planners to work out that itinerary (one hour earlier than booked) and claim based on that.
That means, if I need to claim delay repay from Southern, I just type in 18:30 Brighton to Southampton connecting to 20:25 Southampton to Bournemouth (representing a valid itinerary with 6 minutes connection), right? I made up my mind to return an hour early at the last minute, ran to the station and I didn't collect any evidence beforehand.
 

swt_passenger

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Weymouth train just arrived in P3 as booked. SN is running 4 mins late, now arrived 2022.
 
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Bletchleyite

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That means, if I need to claim delay repay from Southern, I just type in 18:30 Brighton to Southampton connecting to 20:25 Southampton to Bournemouth (representing a valid itinerary with 6 minutes connection), right? I made up my mind to return an hour early at the last minute, ran to the station and I didn't collect any evidence beforehand.

You type in what you actually intended to do, and the claim is for the difference between that and what actually happened, though you definitely can't inflate a claim by breaking your journey, if you see what I mean.

If you don't know what you intended to do (i.e. you don't know the times it was intended to run) the planner can help find out what it was for you.
 

miklcct

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Final update: The Southern train arrived at 20:23. I got off the Southern train from the front carriage, walked to the opposite platform and the electronic plate read Weymouth therefore I boarded the train. The announcement on train showed the train was for London Waterloo initially and adjusted to Poole.

The train departed and the captain announced the train is for Poole. I asked a staff member if the train is for Weymouth and he responded I was on the rear part of the train. Damn.

Here is a hypothetical question: if my final destination is Weymouth that is only served by the front part of the train, will I still be covered by delay repay as this is clearly the passenger's fault (boarding the wrong part of a train) attempting to make a then-valid connection, which due to delay had become less than the MCT?

If not, do I have and recourse because the sign on the platform (says Weymouth) and the actual train (for Poole) didn't match?
 

Bletchleyite

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If you boarded the wrong train you don't have recourse to Delay Repay for the effect of having done so, no.

Is this one train of two portions? If so just walk through.
 

swt_passenger

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IIRC the platform displays at Southampton are still pretty hopeless, if you left the very front of a four car 377 and walked straight over to P3 I think you’d be by the lift, ie just beyond the stairs. The display you’d see above you (looking west) would be indicating for the front portion, for Weymouth. But the coach sitting alongside it is still the front of the rear portion. Was the Weymouth portion still there?

It doesn’t help you now, but you’ll know for next time. The mid platform PIS displays really need moving west by 30 metres or so. But it’s been like that for donkeys, all four platforms are the same…

If you boarded the wrong train you don't have recourse to Delay Repay for the effect of having done so, no.

Is this one train of two portions? If so just walk through.
Yes it splits on arrival as my post #11. But probably had already split and moved apart by the time the SN arrived…
 
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miklcct

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If you boarded the wrong train you don't have recourse to Delay Repay for the effect of having done so, no.

Is this one train of two portions? If so just walk through.
I just find out that the stopping rear part I accidentally boarded was 15 minutes after the non-stop front part, meaning that my total delay was exactly 15 minutes, just meeting the delay repay criteria on time.

To conclude, this delay is caused by the following 3 factors:

1. The Southern service I boarded delayed for 3 minutes into Southampton, arriving 20:22, making the connection to Weymouth less than the MCT.

2. As a result, I didn't look the platform carefully enough and run to the front enough to make sure that I was on the front part of the train.

3. I looked the information plate and believed the information on it, saying 20:25 to Weymouth, without checking if there was another part of the train in front of it.

Do I have any right in claiming delay repay from Southern now?
 

alistairlees

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According to the data you arrived at Southampton at 20.22. Minimum connection time is 4 minutes in this case, so you could not make the 20.25 to Bournemouth; so you boarded the 20.28 to Bournemouth, arriving on time at 21.12. This is 17 minutes after the 20.25 should have arrived (at 20.55). So you may claim for 15 minutes delay repay from Southern.
 

miklcct

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According to the data you arrived at Southampton at 20.22. Minimum connection time is 4 minutes in this case, so you could not make the 20.25 to Bournemouth; so you boarded the 20.28 to Bournemouth, arriving on time at 21.12. This is 17 minutes after the 20.25 should have arrived (at 20.55). So you may claim for 15 minutes delay repay from Southern.

Thanks. I'll make the claim soon and be more careful when changing trains next time, especially at stations where train splits into two.

I have also made a complaint to SWR about the platform showing wrong data leading me to board the wrong part of the train.
 

swt_passenger

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Thanks. I'll make the claim soon and be more careful when changing trains next time, especially at stations where train splits into two.

I have also made a complaint to SWR about the platform showing wrong data leading me to board the wrong part of the train.
You’ll almost certainly get the usual brush off that it’s too expensive to move the displays. Or they just won’t understand your question if it’s too detailed.
 

miklcct

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Thanks. I'll make the claim soon and be more careful when changing trains next time, especially at stations where train splits into two.

I have also made a complaint to SWR about the platform showing wrong data leading me to board the wrong part of the train.
£2 delay repay approved by Southern today - one day processing time.
 

zero

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On a flexible ticket how do they even know what itinerary was suggested on the booking?

I have been on Northern trains which were running late by 15 minutes or more at some point, but later made up time.

I have made several journeys where I did not use the full distance of my ticket's validity, i.e. ended short or broke journey. My actual journeys were delayed by over 15 minutes, but if I had used the full distance of my ticket the delay would have been under 15 minutes and not eligible for repay.

I stated the actual journeys on my delay repay claims, and submitted the tickets I used without any extra evidence. Northern has always approved my claims without any fuss. Only once did I include a note with the ticket scans because it was a very complicated combination, but this was also approved without asking me to clarify further.

I am sure that if, like on the GA thread, if a pattern is detected of someone always breaking their journey at a station where a train is 15 minutes late, that person would eventually be caught.
 

yorkie

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I just find out that the stopping rear part I accidentally boarded was 15 minutes after the non-stop front part, meaning that my total delay was exactly 15 minutes, just meeting the delay repay criteria on time.

To conclude, this delay is caused by the following 3 factors:

1. The Southern service I boarded delayed for 3 minutes into Southampton, arriving 20:22, making the connection to Weymouth less than the MCT.

2. As a result, I didn't look the platform carefully enough and run to the front enough to make sure that I was on the front part of the train.

3. I looked the information plate and believed the information on it, saying 20:25 to Weymouth, without checking if there was another part of the train in front of it.

Do I have any right in claiming delay repay from Southern now?
It's contentious.

If you had this ticket:
https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=BTN&dest=WEY&rte=947&tkt=CDR
From BRIGHTON To WEYMOUTH Route VIA BARNHAM
OFF-PEAK DAY R [B3]
ADULT £28.80
You would be haggling over £3.60. I personally would not deem it worthwhile.

However if the passenger information displays are misleading or difficult to understand, that is worthy of a complaint.
 

miklcct

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I am sure that if, like on the GA thread, if a pattern is detected of someone always breaking their journey at a station where a train is 15 minutes late, that person would eventually be caught.

What's the problem of this? I think it's reasonable to break the journey at the middle caused by a train delay to visit a supermarket at the connection station, if you are going to miss the connection anyway because of the delay of an incoming train.
 

AlterEgo

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What's the problem of this? I think it's reasonable to break the journey at the middle caused by a train delay to visit a supermarket at the connection station, if you are going to miss the connection anyway because of the delay of an incoming train.
You can of course break your journey but you may not intentionally increase the train company’s liability to you by deliberately missing trains.
 

miklcct

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yorkie

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OK so the debate is about £1.94.

Personally I'd be leaving it.
 
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