Newcastle Metro a staff-less shambles

[radamfi]

I'd love to see how you would react if you ever went to New York

We recently gave him advice for his recent trip to New York. He said New York is great because you can buy single tickets in cash for a reasonable price and London sucks because cash fares are punitively expensive. He travelled with a wad of greenbacks despite the obvious danger because he didn't want to pay the cost of using his card abroad, even though he still paid a foreign exchange fee for changing cash. We recommended using a better card for foreign travel but he insisted that he still preferred cash.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Some people are utterly irrational when it comes to cards. A good example is that they'd rather sit in an open plan office reading out their card number, expiry date, CVV and address over an unencrypted telephone line which their employer and the business they are speaking to are probably recording "for quality purposes" in preference to entering it on a website where it is properly encrypted.

 

[causton]

Some people are utterly irrational when it comes to cards. A good example is that they'd rather sit in an open plan office reading out their card number, expiry date, CVV and address over an unencrypted telephone line which their employer and the business they are speaking to are probably recording "for quality purposes" in preference to entering it on a website where it is properly encrypted.

Yep - I know many people who think that!

I think in the experience of the people I know - they just hate change and want to do things the way they've always done it...

 

[rebmcr]

Some people are utterly irrational when it comes to cards. A good example is that they'd rather sit in an open plan office reading out their card number, expiry date, CVV and address over an unencrypted telephone line which their employer and the business they are speaking to are probably recording "for quality purposes" in preference to entering it on a website where it is properly encrypted.

PCI-DSS standards for card processing prohibit call recording. At the client I am currently seconded to, recorded calls to Customer Services must end before being re-initiated from a designated non-recording handset, should card details be required.

Failure to pass a standards audit would result in the payment industry refusing services.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Doesn't stop their employer recording the outgoing personal call...

 

[Busaholic]

Some people are utterly irrational when it comes to cards. A good example is that they'd rather sit in an open plan office reading out their card number, expiry date, CVV and address over an unencrypted telephone line which their employer and the business they are speaking to are probably recording "for quality purposes" in preference to entering it on a website where it is properly encrypted.

I don't think it's irrational at all. if you choose with care which companies you order from. The number of instances of fraud in these circumstances must pall into insignificance beside the medium and large scale frauds that firms like TalkTalk have experienced with their so-called 'secure' payment data. I've had a credit card since the early 1970s with the first Access (later, MasterCard) issue and the only time ordering by phone ever came into question was the one time I ordered from the Guardian shop and there was an alert a few days later that some info had gone astray, but it didn't affect my card. Being a TalkTalk customer, however, has caused me worry, but then I fought against coming under them when AOL got taken over, and resisted as long as possible.

 

[Bletchleyite]

TalkTalk are incompetent. Do not touch with a bargepole.

That aside, the risk of telephone interception is now much greater, now electronic devices can easily interpret speech.

And card fraud isn't that much of a problem to the end user anyway. Report it promptly and you get your money back. Indeed, it's happened to me twice (both in person, never involving online transactions) and both times the bank actually noticed it before I did - and that's with me having a *very* varied spending pattern!

As for contactless, the most anyone would get away with spending is about £150 (5 transactions of £30) before a PIN would be triggered - and you'd get refunded if you reported it. The risk is minimal compared with £100 cash in your wallet, which if it's nicked you've lost.

 

[daikilo]

Every ticket machine has every station listed on the map, saying exactly what combination of zones you need to travel there. The ticket machines themselves operate in a number of languages, including Mandarin, and clearly show the different ticket options. There is a clearly signed help point if you're not able to put these tantalising bits of information together.

I'm really not sure what you're whining about to be honest. The only issue with the ticket machines is that they can be temperamental with some types of debit card. But that's what the Help Point- right next to the machine- is for.

I'll criticize Metro as much as anyone, but if you can't figure out how to use those machines you're probably not ready for this level of public transport.

Well, I haven't flown into Newcastle yet, but if my foreign debit card does not work I would hope that I am guided to what I should do and not left to work it out myself.

 

[SeanG]

Well, I haven't flown into Newcastle yet, but if my foreign debit card does not work I would hope that I am guided to what I should do and not left to work it out myself.

Take some cash and you'll be fine. But FWIW your card should work

 

[Robertj21a]

Well, I haven't flown into Newcastle yet, but if my foreign debit card does not work I would hope that I am guided to what I should do and not left to work it out myself.

Most debit (or credit) cards will work. It's AMEX that's always the problem.

 

[ModernRailways]

Well, I haven't flown into Newcastle yet, but if my foreign debit card does not work I would hope that I am guided to what I should do and not left to work it out myself.

As others have said, the vast majority will work. However, you can always use a cash machine (there are plenty in the Airport, and I believe one in the Metro station too). It would be best to carry some cash with you as a back up - your card may be blocked if it sees foreign spending for example.

 

[rmt4ever]

Although I have some sympathy for the problems encountered, I can only guess that the OP hasn't travelled much abroad. The Newcastle Metro system, tickets, and lack of staff is not so very different from many other parts of Europe. Most travellers know this and formulate at least their basic plans before they go.

Using an AMEX card in the UK was always going to end in tears !

Nope not much. Over the last few years various cities in France, Spain, Portugal, Germany, Italy, Sweden, USA and others, usually using public transport upon arrival. And have never experienced such a sham as Newcastle metro (regarding complete lack of staff, for example)

 

[Robertj21a]

Nope not much. Over the last few years various cities in France, Spain, Portugal, Germany, Italy, Sweden, USA and others, usually using public transport upon arrival. And have never experienced such a sham as Newcastle metro (regarding complete lack of staff, for example)

How very odd. I've been to most of those countries too, and many more across Europe. I don't expect to find staff at stations as the ticket machines are usually quite clear. A Visa card seems to work virtually anywhere.

 

[AlterEgo]

Nope not much. Over the last few years various cities in France, Spain, Portugal, Germany, Italy, Sweden, USA and others, usually using public transport upon arrival. And have never experienced such a sham as Newcastle metro (regarding complete lack of staff, for example)

And I've never heard of anyone who only carries an Amex, literally no cash, and not even a debit card and expects it to be accepted for a small transaction of a few quid.

Clearly this lack of foresight on your part frustrated you and has led you to criticise the Metro unduly. It's not perfect, but it is a good enough system which millions of people use without problem.

Your general expectation is that there should be no staff, or barely any staff on a European mass transit system. That's just how it is in most places.

You should post the gripe on your FlyerTalk account and see how well it goes down.

 

[rmt4ever]

And I've never heard of anyone who only carries an Amex, literally no cash, and not even a debit card and expects it to be accepted for a small transaction of a few quid.

Clearly this lack of foresight on your part frustrated you and has led you to criticise the Metro unduly. It's not perfect, but it is a good enough system which millions of people use without problem.

Your general expectation is that there should be no staff, or barely any staff on a European mass transit system. That's just how it is in most places.

You should post the gripe on your FlyerTalk account and see how well it goes down.

I had other cards. There was no notice on the machine of which cards it did / didn't acccept. Again, very poor customer service.

For the same reason I refuse to use self scan at supermarkets, I just expect some staff to be able to assist if necessary. Is that really too much to ask?

 

[AlterEgo]

I had other cards. There was no notice on the machine of which cards it did / didn't acccept. Again, very poor customer service.

For the same reason I refuse to use self scan at supermarkets, I just expect some staff to be able to assist if necessary. Is that really too much to ask?

Then why didn't you use one of your other cards instead of getting someone else to pay for you?

Self scanning is an analogy to the ticket machine - it's easy to use but if you get a problem there's someone there to help. What you mean is you would rather the Metro provide a staffed (and wasteful) ticket office to sell the very, very simple range of tickets on offer. It's literally Zone A/B/C and give it your cash or card (not Amex though of course!).

This forum is full of proper examples of ticket systems which are hard to understand or use. The TW Metro isn't one of them.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Well, I haven't flown into Newcastle yet, but if my foreign debit card does not work I would hope that I am guided to what I should do and not left to work it out myself.

The contactless facility on the ticket machines can be a bit temperamental, as well as issues with AMEX.

I'd recommend having cash on you anyway, as you should in any foreign country in case your cards don't work. But there is a bureau de change and several free cash machines inside the airport terminal if your card does get declined.

If the machine doesn't work and you don't have alternative methods of payment, contacting the Help Point means you can get authorisation to travel and pay at the other end.

I had other cards. There was no notice on the machine of which cards it did / didn't acccept. Again, very poor customer service.

The machines say what types of card they accept, it is on the payment screen.

Look, AMEX isn't listed.

 

[bradders1983]

This thread is turning into a huge "Oh Dear" on behalf of the OP.

Time to bail out, old chum.

 

[Clip]

The contactless facility on the ticket machines can be a bit temperamental, as well as issues with AMEX.

I'd recommend having cash on you anyway, as you should in any foreign country in case your cards don't work. But there is a bureau de change and several free cash machines inside the airport terminal if your card does get declined.

If the machine doesn't work and you don't have alternative methods of payment, contacting the Help Point means you can get authorisation to travel and pay at the other end.



The machines say what types of card they accept, it is on the payment screen.

Look, AMEX isn't listed.

I was just looking for that exact picture when I though I best check to make sure someone hasnt blown the OPs secondary rant out the water with it.

I hope the OP doesnt go to Athens because apart from a windwo where the ticket lady doesnt understand English, and apart from cleaners and a few Police Ive never seen any staff on their metro either

 

[SeanG]

I had other cards. There was no notice on the machine of which cards it did / didn't acccept. Again, very poor customer service.

For the same reason I refuse to use self scan at supermarkets, I just expect some staff to be able to assist if necessary. Is that really too much to ask?

I'm sure that there are a list of accepted cards on the machine (but stand to be corrected).

There are always staff at supermarket self scans (to make sure nobody robs anything for a start) so I'm not sure of basis of this comment

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Sorry I have to disagree Amex is widely accepted in the UK and it is only on the odd occasion have I come across a retailer who does not accept the card. An English pensioner.:roll:

Would say the opposite - I paid the water rates and electric bill over the phone today both automated payment systems accepted all cards except American Express

 

[rmt4ever]

Next time I go I will just not bother buying a ticket. That's what they are asking for with an abundance of stations left completely unstaffed and gates wide open

 

[ModernRailways]

Next time I go I will just not bother buying a ticket. That's what they are asking for with an abundance of stations left completely unstaffed and gates wide open

That's just plain old fare evasion then. The machines accept many, many ways of payment - notes, coinage, and the majority of cards (except Amex - Amex has a higher cut % from sales so for such a small transaction it isn't worth having Amex support). Almost everyone with an AmEx card (myself included) will have some other form of payment on them.

If you want more staff on the system then you really need to be telling the Government. Metro operates at a loss as it is so more staff is simply not possible. Again, as mentioned previously Airport (and stations with barriers) is usually manned, however even then staff couldn't have helped you. They would have told you to go into the terminal building and visit the bureau de change or use a cash machine.

Metro has one of the easiest and simplest ticketing systems in the country, the machines are incredibly easy to read, with enough information on them, but not too much to overwhelm people. I must admit you're the first person who I've ever heard of struggling to use the machines. The vast majority of visitors (including foreign visitors who may not understand the language) find it relatively easy. You look for the station and select the zones you want.

As also mentioned, there are help points at every station too which go through to control who can also help you out. A physical staff presence at every station would be best, and is something I would like, however the cost involved means it won't happen.

 

[AlterEgo]

Next time I go I will just not bother buying a ticket. That's what they are asking for with an abundance of stations left completely unstaffed and gates wide open

It's a good way to get your name in the paper or on a poster.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Next time I go I will just not bother buying a ticket. That's what they are asking for with an abundance of stations left completely unstaffed and gates wide open

Personally I'd rather everybody was honest and paid for the service they were taking, and then we wouldn't need barriers, PFs, prosecutions etc.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Would say the opposite - I paid the water rates and electric bill over the phone today both automated payment systems accepted all cards except American Express

A lot of retailers don't accept Amex because of the transaction charges. Amex charge significantly more than both Visa and MasterCard. Bigger shops tend to accept it, but a lot of smaller ones don't.

As for the OP: "I'm wrong, my butt hurts so bad I'm going to fare evade" is about the level of maturity I'd expect.

 

[shredder1]

The photography policy is indeed strange, bordering on paranoid, however in reality it's not much of an issue as there are so few staff around. The drivers don't seem to care as long as the camera isn't shoved right in their face, which is fair enough.

Some of the stations have a pretty nasty atmosphere in terms of security, for example the ones beyond Sunderland, Brockley Whins, etc. Not sure if this is more perception rather than reality though.

Meanwhile, Metro's reliability seems pretty bad. Maybe I was unlucky, but during my two-week holiday in Newcastle last year the service seemed to be up the wall almost every day either due to train failures or signal problems.

Yes indeed, and they even had the gall to run a photographic competition a few years ago, laughable.

 

[MetroCar4058]

Metro operates at a loss as it is so more staff is simply not possible.

This isn't exactly true. Nexus have been breaking even for a few years now.

Metro doesn't need more staff, people should just be decent human beings and pay for what they use as others have highlighted. If you need help, we have the fantastic social media team who reply very quickly and the help point.

 

[radamfi]

Maybe there's a case for charging a supplement for accepting Amex. But do Amex allow retailers to do that? And would hungry complain about the fee if Amex acceptance was accepted under that scenario?

NS (Dutch Railways) was heavily criticised by tourists by the lack of Visa/Mastercard acceptance. Now they accept them, but with a 0.50 euro fee. They still don't accept Amex. So I doubt hungry would find that acceptable. The Netherlands are very keen users of debit cards for even small amounts where cash would be the norm in the UK, but credit cards are not accepted to the same degree, presumably because retailers and customers alike realise there is an extra cost involved so it is the interest of both not to use them. Scandinavians on the other hand appear to like credit cards for any amount, even in small shops, but I don't know whether that extends to Amex.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Yes indeed, and they even had the gall to run a photographic competition a few years ago, laughable.

I know this is something you really have a bee in your bonnet about, and have for a very long time, but the policy isn't really any different to London Underground. LUL say they'll allow an occasional ad-hoc photograph, at the discretion of the station supervisor, providing you're not using specialist equipment; otherwise you need a permit, and that costs £££.

In reality, that's what happens on Metro. Take a quick snap of your kids at the front of the Metro with your phone or your £50 digital camera and nobody cares. Stand there with your tripod and your £5000 digital SLR and you'll get moved along.