Newcastle Metro a staff-less shambles

[bradders1983]

Next time I go I will just not bother buying a ticket. That's what they are asking for with an abundance of stations left completely unstaffed and gates wide open

Why are you throwing your toys out of the pram? :roll:

 

[shredder1]

I know this is something you really have a bee in your bonnet about, and have for a very long time, but the policy isn't really any different to London Underground. LUL say they'll allow an occasional ad-hoc photograph, at the discretion of the station supervisor, providing you're not using specialist equipment; otherwise you need a permit, and that costs £££.

In reality, that's what happens on Metro. Take a quick snap of your kids at the front of the Metro with your phone or your £50 digital camera and nobody cares. Stand there with your tripod and your £5000 digital SLR and you'll get moved along.

Me and many others apparently, but sorry not my experience.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Netherlands are very keen users of debit cards for even small amounts where cash would be the norm in the UK, but credit cards are not accepted to the same degree, presumably because retailers and customers alike realise there is an extra cost involved so it is the interest of both not to use them.

The only problem with that of course (which was true of Germany in the 1990s too, but they've mostly caught up) is that the debit card standard they used was the Dutch PINpas - it's not internationally compatible, not even with Maestro. I think it does now work with Maestro, but the problem is that UK Maestro isn't Maestro (where issued, it's now very rare), it's Switch (the old UK specific system similar to PINpas) with branding on it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Me and many others apparently, but sorry not my experience.

Have you been told off for taking a photograph of your family to which the train was incidental?

Taking photographs *of trains for extended periods* is perhaps likely to attract attention, though.

It's a silly policy - but FWIW is one most shopping centres seem to have - and I very much have heard of issues with family photographs. That ugly looking Brum shopping centre, I forget what it's called, doesn't even like people taking pictures of the outside, unfortunately for them they have no legal right to stop you if you're on public land (i.e. outside on the street) so snap away and wave cheerily at the miserable looking security guards attempting to prevent it.

 

[rg177]

Next time I go I will just not bother buying a ticket. That's what they are asking for with an abundance of stations left completely unstaffed and gates wide open

Looking forward to seeing you named and shamed on a poster or in the papers when you get RPIs onto you (it happens) or maybe you'll rock up to a suddenly staffed station (All of the city centre stations have staff for the bulk of the day) and asked why you don't have a ticket.

"I don't think you deserve one being bought" isn't a valid excuse.

 

[shredder1]

Have you been told off for taking a photograph of your family to which the train was incidental?

Taking photographs *of trains for extended periods* is perhaps likely to attract attention, though.

It's a silly policy - but FWIW is one most shopping centres seem to have - and I very much have heard of issues with family photographs. That ugly looking Brum shopping centre, I forget what it's called, doesn't even like people taking pictures of the outside, unfortunately for them they have no legal right to stop you if you're on public land (i.e. outside on the street) so snap away and wave cheerily at the miserable looking security guards attempting to prevent it.

Yes I agree, crazy isnt it, so much for extra eyes and ears when things go wrong, still I`m sure they know best .

 

[Tetchytyke]

Me and many others apparently, but sorry not my experience.

I think it depends where you are and what you're doing. Stand at the buffer stops at St James for an hour and they will shift you along. London Underground are the same. A couple of photos at somewhere like Pelaw and nobody really cares.

Metro were very accommodating when the Flying Scotsman went up the Blyth and Tyne last year, Metro drivers were under strict instructions to wait outside Palmersville or Northumberland Park if they saw the train coming, to allow photos.

I think the policy is a bit overkill, especially the notice period, but really what they're saying is what London Underground say. Loiter without telling people what you're doing as you'll get shifted along.

 

[bluegoblin7]

I know this is something you really have a bee in your bonnet about, and have for a very long time, but the policy isn't really any different to London Underground. LUL say they'll allow an occasional ad-hoc photograph, at the discretion of the station supervisor, providing you're not using specialist equipment; otherwise you need a permit, and that costs £££.

Except that's not the policy on LU. Non-commercial photography is permitted so long as you are 'passing through', i.e. have a travel ticket. Although it is considered good practice to sign in with the supervisor if you're going to be spending some time at a station, there is no requirement. Non-commercial photography is expressly permitted in the conditions of carriage/bye-laws; flash and the use of tripods are prohibited. No other restrictions apply on equipment.

A permit is only required for commercial photography. Flash is generally still prohibited at platform level, tripods are at the discretion of the supervisor.

Back on topic, I've never had any problems on the Metro, applying the same principles that I apply when shooting on the Tube. Many enthusiasts draw attention to themselves (on LU) by getting too close to the platform edge, for instance...

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Except that's not the policy on LU. Non-commercial photography is permitted so long as you are 'passing through', i.e. have a travel ticket. Although it is considered good practice to sign in with the supervisor if you're going to be spending some time at a station, there is no requirement. Non-commercial photography is expressly permitted in the conditions of carriage/bye-laws; flash and the use of tripods are prohibited. No other restrictions apply on equipment.

A permit is only required for commercial photography. Flash is generally still prohibited at platform level, tripods are at the discretion of the supervisor.

The Underground do have a "student and non-commercial photography" permit available from HQ for a fee which is not too bad; it's valid for 28 days and means you can sign in for extended periods. Still need to apply common sense and not use tripods, cause any obstructions etc. but it does guarantee you no hassle.

In the case of the Metro, you can do extended periods by arranging it in advance with them; they don't charge a fee for this. Again, as long as it is non-commercial.

 

[shredder1]

I think it depends where you are and what you're doing. Stand at the buffer stops at St James for an hour and they will shift you along. London Underground are the same. A couple of photos at somewhere like Pelaw and nobody really cares.

Metro were very accommodating when the Flying Scotsman went up the Blyth and Tyne last year, Metro drivers were under strict instructions to wait outside Palmersville or Northumberland Park if they saw the train coming, to allow photos.

I think the policy is a bit overkill, especially the notice period, but really what they're saying is what London Underground say. Loiter without telling people what you're doing as you'll get shifted along.

That`s fair comment of course, but they do themselves no favours. I`ve been taking pictures of the network since the 60`s when they had the Tyneside Articulated units operating and through the DMU period and early days of the Tyne and Wear Metro, its a very historic network with a rich history and some excellent and well preserved stations, its a shame some visiting enthusiasts feel they are forever looking over their shoulders when they wish to take a photograph.

I don`t tend to loiter, just jump one train after another mainly and take a few photographs at each location, largely I`ve had no issues, bar my last visit when some guy came running and shouting down the platform at South Shields, I thought he was seriously having some sort of fit, I`d taken one photograph and was boarding a train at the time and he started reading me the riot act, even other customers on the platform thought he was behaving inappropriately and commented once we were on the train. Sadly this type policy brings the jobsworth out of the woodwork and creates problems that don`t exist.

 

[Darandio]

Sadly this type policy brings the jobsworth out of the woodwork and creates problems that don`t exist.

And sadly this is where it all falls down when you use 'that' word to describe them.

If a member of staff is given instruction to follow the rules, how are they a 'jobsworth' for following those rules? What if they don't follow the rules given, are seen to be doing so and are disciplined?

Yes, I realise that disciplinary action would be disproportionate to their 'crime', but if you aren't happy with the rules then take it up with those who set them, not the poor sods on the ground that are told to follow them.

 

[shredder1]

And sadly this is where it all falls down when you use 'that' word to describe them.

If a member of staff is given instruction to follow the rules, how are they a 'jobsworth' for following those rules? What if they don't follow the rules given, are seen to be doing so and are disciplined?

Yes, I realise that disciplinary action would be disproportionate to their 'crime', but if you aren't happy with the rules then take it up with those who set them, not the poor sods on the ground that are told to follow them.

There are ways to speak to customers without embarrassing yourself and the company you represent.

 

[bluegoblin7]

The Underground do have a "student and non-commercial photography" permit available from HQ for a fee which is not too bad; it's valid for 28 days and means you can sign in for extended periods. Still need to apply common sense and not use tripods, cause any obstructions etc. but it does guarantee you no hassle..

Recently withdrawn, from what I've been told. Any member of the public can request to sign in to take non-obtrusive photographs, and this shouldn't be refused without good reason - the same good reason that would prevent a permit holder signing in.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Recently withdrawn, from what I've been told. Any member of the public can request to sign in to take non-obtrusive photographs, and this shouldn't be refused without good reason - the same good reason that would prevent a permit holder signing in.

Ah.... I hadn't heard that. Makes it easier to plan, I suppose, given that one would not have to try to concentrate a lot of days off in the space of four weeks to make the best use of the permit!

Presumably the same weekday time restrictions that existed under the permit still apply?

 

[bluegoblin7]

Ah.... I hadn't heard that. Makes it easier to plan, I suppose, given that one would not have to try to concentrate a lot of days off in the space of four weeks to make the best use of the permit!

Presumably the same weekday time restrictions that existed under the permit still apply?

Common sense should prevail - if the station is busy (not necessarily peak) it would be best to come back another time, but if things are quiet there shouldn't be too many issues.

All that said - it does come down to the staff's attitude/knowledge, so YMMV. I'm always interested to hear of negative run-ins, however.

 

[shredder1]

Common sense should prevail - if the station is busy (not necessarily peak) it would be best to come back another time, but if things are quiet there shouldn't be too many issues.

All that said - it does come down to the staff's attitude/knowledge, so YMMV. I'm always interested to hear of negative run-ins, however.

I travelled on every London underground lines a few years ago and got off at a number of stations to take photographs, some staying for 30 minutes or more, I didnt have any issues with staff and actually found the ones I spoke too, including drivers and ticket staff, very enthusiastic and helpful, appreciating our interests.

 

[exile]

Although I have some sympathy for the problems encountered, I can only guess that the OP hasn't travelled much abroad. The Newcastle Metro system, tickets, and lack of staff is not so very different from many other parts of Europe. Most travellers know this and formulate at least their basic plans before they go.

Using an AMEX card in the UK was always going to end in tears !

I remember the 1st time I arrived at CDG, late at night, was a traumatic experience. Nobody about either in the airport or the RER station, took some time to find the ticket machines and work out what ticket type I needed. And that's an airport with 50 million passengers a year. Generally, tourists arriving at airports are not well catered for anywhere - it's assumed you're a regular traveller and know where to go and what to do.

 

[Kite159]

I remember the 1st time I arrived at CDG, late at night, was a traumatic experience. Nobody about either in the airport or the RER station, took some time to find the ticket machines and work out what ticket type I needed. And that's an airport with 50 million passengers a year. Generally, tourists arriving at airports are not well catered for anywhere - it's assumed you're a regular traveller and know where to go and what to do.

And if it is anything like the ticket machines in the Paris station where the Eurostars arrive, 'friendly' people who will do their best to sell you the most expensive ticket going

 

[Tetchytyke]

Sadly this type policy brings the jobsworth out of the woodwork and creates problems that don`t exist.

I think that's a South Shields station thing, some of the barrier staff there are rather interesting. But then again, if I had to spend all day having to deal with the wildlife from Tyne Dock I'd be a mardy bugger as well.

 

[LLivery]

I remember the 1st time I arrived at CDG, late at night, was a traumatic experience. Nobody about either in the airport or the RER station, took some time to find the ticket machines and work out what ticket type I needed. And that's an airport with 50 million passengers a year. Generally, tourists arriving at airports are not well catered for anywhere - it's assumed you're a regular traveller and know where to go and what to do.

You see, I find this odd. At Du Nord (Metro), El Pratt (Renfe), Madrid Airport (Metro) helpful staff was there and they made sure we got where we needed to go. At Du Nord there is an information point for tourists with staff giving out maps etc. There are clearly less staff than London in major cities on the continent but still enough to help you get on your way. Not having staff at international points seems mad. I'll see how it is in Rome in the Summer.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Tell you what, if you want an airport station that's a right unsafe-feeling dump El Prat is it. I expect it'll close when the metro reaches the new terminal (if it hasn't already).

 

[me123]

Tell you what, if you want an airport station that's a right unsafe-feeling dump El Prat is it. I expect it'll close when the metro reaches the new terminal (if it hasn't already).

A bit harsh, I think? El Prat station isn't exactly going to win awards for anything, but I found it did its job and I didn't feel unsafe. :?

 

[shredder1]

I think that's a South Shields station thing, some of the barrier staff there are rather interesting. But then again, if I had to spend all day having to deal with the wildlife from Tyne Dock I'd be a mardy bugger as well.

hahaha, awe, I feel guilty now