Night Riviera refurbishment planned?

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by sn1975, 1 May 2015.

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  1. sn1975

    sn1975 Member

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    Hi all,

    Are FGW planning to refurbish the Night Riviera soon?

    They're running a radio advert with a mention of the "soon to be refurbished" Night Riviera sleeper.

    Or are they referring to the forthcoming stock replacement?

    Many thanks.
     
  2. Steve14

    Steve14 Member

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    Yep I believe so. With the introduction of the GWR livery in Sept, it's going to have a GWR livery with a GWR branded interior. So everything blue will be disappearing!
     
  3. CosherB

    CosherB Established Member

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    Coat of new GWR green?

    And what forthcoming stock replacement are you referring to?
     
  4. fgwrich

    fgwrich Established Member

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    They are indeed being refurbished and will come back in GWR Green. Not sure what's going on with the seats at the moment, but I believe they should be the ex HST FC seats just recovered - far more comfortable than the rather threadbare IC70s still in use today.

    Another SLEP and TSO are also to be added, bringing the formation up to a regular 8/9 cars with 10 possible.
     
  5. Robbies

    Robbies Established Member

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    I thought I read somewhere that there is a possibility of HST MK3 coaches being added to the Night Riviera when they are shortened to 5 car and replaced possibly by AT300's?
     
  6. CosherB

    CosherB Established Member

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    Oh no, not that chestnut again! lol
     
  7. sn1975

    sn1975 Member

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    Apologises - I was under the incorrect impression that the Night Riviera coaching stock was being completely replaced within the next two or three years - I'm probably getting confused with the Caledonian.

    I found this link -

    https://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk...jor-package-of-rail-improvements-for-cornwall

    Does this refer to the current refurbishment or something else?

    The reason I ask is that I am hoping to take my first trip on the Riviera this summer and would delay this until after a refurbishment, if that's quite soon.
     
  8. CosherB

    CosherB Established Member

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    Having seen a cab view of the repainted 57605 at Derby, it looks nothing like the dark green colour shown on the SET render I've seen online. It looks more like 57604 - do you know if the Mk3 stock will be painted to match the Class 57 shade of green?
     
  9. Domh245

    Domh245 Established Member

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    Here is a picture of 57605:

    https://flic.kr/p/si4kXV

    Which certainly looks more forest-y green than the sort of brunswick/bottle green that has been used in the SET renderings
     
  10. bavvo

    bavvo Member

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    I'm surprised, with a close election coming up, and a lot of marginal seats in the south west, that the order for new Caledonian Sleeper carriages didn't have a few more tacked on for the Riviera service, the stock is the same vintage after all.

    Having said that, I travelled on it on Friday and the trip was just fine, and I slept as well as I do at home. The carpets and lounge seats are looking a little tired these days, but it at least was reasonably quite, didn't lurch about too much or squeak and rattle, and the temperature in the cabin was fine for me.
     
  11. Blindtraveler

    Blindtraveler Established Member

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    Are they going to do much if anything to cabbins?
     
  12. 221129

    221129 Established Member

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    One of the Refurbed carriages is on 1C99 tonight currently at PAD. 10594 possibly to be removed at Plymouth in GWR Green. Carriage Locked Out of Use.
     
  13. fgwrich

    fgwrich Established Member

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  14. Temple Meads

    Temple Meads Established Member

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    I like the colour scheme, but it does look a bit plain at the moment though - branding should help, as would a stripe or two to match the doors.
     
    Last edited: 1 May 2015
  15. fgwrich

    fgwrich Established Member

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    What I don't get is why they've decided they hate their own 2007+ look and reverted back to pre First Green again, dropping the corporate Blue - I reckon if you stuck a large Ivory band on it, you'd get a near enough match to the former Great Western Trains Roundel Designed 'Merlin' livery.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/40172...7xy-6GipDa-p2QokB-p82LFb-nj2uok-pp5YQ5-9jL6GG
     
  16. 455driver

    455driver Veteran Member

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    Nothing booked for removal at Plymouth, all 10 coaches are going to Penzance, at the moment!
     
  17. RichmondCommu

    RichmondCommu Established Member

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    I think if they were serious about the long term future of the Riviera sleeper they would be looking to replace the current sleepers and surely now would be their best ever chance to do that. The current European trend is a planned withdrawal of sleeper services and I can only see the Riviera service going the same way.
     
  18. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    That is true of the rest of Europe but there is one key difference - until HS2 is built (if it is built) the UK doesn't have any LGVs that compete with Sleeper services, and even when it is the Riviera isn't going to be in competition with it. And air only competes to a very limited extent, unlike Scotland.

    Another difference is that the UK Sleepers have quite a business traveller following - something that works well because of (a) the relatively high standard of accommodation against the price (a single or twin on German sleepers can be very pricey) and (b) the London centric nature of the UK meaning you just need the few services and not a web of them.

    A third one is that the UK subsidises them - German long distance services, for instance, do not receive direct operating subsidy.

    So I think they will last a while longer yet. It wouldn't surprise me completely if, assuming the Caledonian Sleeper CAF stock is reliable and popular with passengers, fGW tagged on a follow-on order for a couple of trains of that.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    I wonder will it get the white lines shown on the artist's impressions of the IEP?
     
    Last edited: 2 May 2015
  19. RichmondCommu

    RichmondCommu Established Member

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    I'd be interested to know how much subsidy is paid by the Government to FGW to run the sleeper service. The harsh reality is that the transport budget is likely to be cut after the election and the Riviera sleeper could well be considered an easy target. I would have said the same about the Scottish sleeper two years a go but spending a fortune on new rolling stock has changed everything.
     
  20. CosherB

    CosherB Established Member

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    Why on earth would FGW be refurbishing the sleeper Mk3s internally an externally if the service was going to be withdrawn? There is strong political will to keep the service to the south west, indeed, it this support that is giving it extra carriages. You were wrong about the scottish sleeper, and you're wrong about the Night Riviera.
     
  21. Robbies

    Robbies Established Member

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    Even with HS2, there is still a need for the sleeper services to be run in my opinion.

    While First only have an extension agreement as they do at the moment, I cannot see the present sleeper fleet being replaced if they meet regulations.

    It is more important that the 40 year old HST sets to the south west get replaced which is why they are awaiting approval to order the AT300 trains.
     
  22. anthony263

    anthony263 Established Member

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    Didn't we have a scenario about the sleeper being withdrawn a few years ago which caused a huge uproar in the south west?
     
  23. jimm

    jimm Established Member

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    The Caledonian Sleeper is funded by the Scottish government - which has put in £60m towards the cost of the CAF stock - not the DfT, so really no chance of a linked order.

    And most of the marginal seats in the south west are Tory v Lib Dem contests anyway, so you would have ended up with them both trying to take the credit, which would have been a bit silly.

    I expect the question of future rolling stock for the Night Riviera to be among the issues raised when the GW franchise comes up for renewal in 2019, with the potential bidders asked to come up with suggestions - and CAF waiting in the wings with what it presumably hopes will by then be a proven design, with a good few months' service behind it.

    I doubt DfT would suggest withdrawing the Riviera again, unless custom falls off a cliff, which seems unlikely given the growth in demand over recent years and the lengthening of the train we are seeing at the moment.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Colour-wise I suspect the picture of the 57 gives a better impression of the shade of green than the one of the sleeper coach with all the bodyside reflections and lighting glare. 57605 is darker than the Brunswick green used on 57604, though not as dark as the shade on the AT300 image.
     
    Last edited: 2 May 2015
  24. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Is the Night Riveria directly subsidised? I was under the impression that FGW were running it off their own bat and it was not a franchise requirement. That suggest to me that FGW must be making some money out of it or at the very least it can't be losing them much money.

    I recall that it got quite a lot of play that the sleeper was going to be a franchise requirement in the new franchise until that collapsed in the aftermath of the ICWC fiasco. I wonder if it's a requirement of the direct award or if it's still up to FGW.
     
  25. Hadders

    Hadders Established Member

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    IIRC bidders for the last Great Western franchise were asked to price the sleeper service separately.

    I suspect it is subsidised but in reality withdrawing it would be unpalatable, politically.
     
  26. gazthomas

    gazthomas Established Member

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    I agree. It would be good to have new stock though.
     
  27. Robbies

    Robbies Established Member

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    I cannot see there be any new stock for the Night Riviera until the stock for the daytime trains has been totally resolved.

    If the order for the Hitachi AT300's that FGW wants goes ahead, do you think that if any new stock for the Night Riviera is going to be provided that it might be Hitachi that provides it as part of a Hybrid AT300 multiple unit?
     
  28. gazthomas

    gazthomas Established Member

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    I guess the economics of a sleeper really does preclude stock that can run in the day time, so an AT300 derivative for night time services would be as good as anything
     
  29. thelongestroad

    thelongestroad Member

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  30. NotATrainspott

    NotATrainspott Established Member

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    Very unlikely. Serco and CAF have produced an extremely conservative design for the new Caledonian Sleeper rolling stock - no multiple unit, no cabs, no having only a single vestibule per carriage. Instead of working out how to convert two AT300 designs to have night-time accommodation, they could just tack on an order from CAF and have the stock delivered and ready for use without any hassle. If I remember correctly, the new maintenance base for the Serco sleeper is Wembley so it wouldn't even be impossible for there to be one common maintenance base as well.
     
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