No trains to call at Altnabreac for the foreseeable future

[Xenophon PCDGS]

However, it is unlikely that the access rights provided by Part 1 of the Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003 would cover (a) what Network Rail wishes to do and (b) all railway passengers who might wish to use the station.


It depends on the nature of the right, who proposes to exercise it and for what purpose.


I would be surprised if they had read any of the missives at all.

Would their employed solicitors not have been unaware of that Part of the Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003?

 

[najaB]

I wonder how many posters have actually used Altnabreac? I travelled there by Post Bus (remember those?)

Passed through a handful of times, but never had any reason to alight.

 

[Struner]

Passed through a handful of times, but never had any reason to alight.

Same goes for me. & on top of that, I know people who did

 

[Krokodil]

Until all this kicked off, I had no reason to alight there. Now though, I want to visit just to see for myself...

 

[GoneSouth]

What’s wrong with these people, it appears there’s on average less than 1 passengers per day throughout the year. Lunatics!

Even if we assume there’s nobody using the station in winter because of the weather, so let’s say it’s used 7 months a year, that’s still only 40 per month. Get a grip and let the railway do it’s job and the passengers exercise their right to roam. If you don’t like it move to an island with no railway.

 

[Falcon1200]

Back in the day when BR staff had to apply for their free tickets and state an origin and destination, Altnabreac (along with Scotscalder) was a regularly used location. Not that anyone ever actually went there, of course.

 

[185143]

I wonder how many posters have actually used Altnabreac? I travelled there by Post Bus (remember those?)

I have!

I do wonder if the number of posters who've been, who aren't/weren't on a mission to visit all the stations is much higher than zero though?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Just saying, but this thread has now more posts than passengers that used the station in 22-23. (280)!

How are station usage statistics calculated for somewhere like Altnabreac? Would they include someone stopping off there (when this was possible) holding, say, an Inverness to Thurso day ticket (or a Highland Rover) and then rejoining another train later on?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wonder how many posters have actually used Altnabreac? I travelled there by Post Bus (remember those?)

I have, though only once in about 2003 for a winter wild camping adventure! Got "are you sure?" from the guard when I asked for it

 

[185]

Network Rail should begin a damages suit for the value of the property and the land, then seek a seizure order for the property.

The female resident - a former DC from Stockport GMP Elizabeth Holt knows the law well, and there can be no defence for her actions in this case. I recall the Evening News ran a story in 2020 which was widely shared by GMP officers, after concerns she had gone missing again, after turning to God.

 

[davetheguard]

Would they include someone stopping off there (when this was possible) holding, say, an Inverness to Thurso day ticket (or a Highland Rover) and then rejoining another train later on?

Surely not. It will just be number of tickets sold with a destination or origin point of Altnabreac (i.e. entrances & exits). Any others breaking their journeys, will be like those travelling without tickets: invisible.

 

[swt_passenger]

How are station usage statistics calculated for somewhere like Altnabreac? Would they include someone stopping off there (when this was possible) holding, say, an Inverness to Thurso day ticket (or a Highland Rover) and then rejoining another train later on?

There’s no reason I can think of for a break ever being automatically recorded, so I’d say no chance.

 

[185143]

There’s no reason I can think of for a break ever being automatically recorded, so I’d say no chance.

Although with the technology available with e-tickets scanned at gatelines, surely no reason why it *couldn't* be?

Not that I'm proposing for a second that harvesting such data en masse would be a worthwhile use of a TOC's time, just making the point.

 

[Trainbike46]

Although with the technology available with e-tickets scanned at gatelines, surely no reason why it *couldn't* be?

Not that I'm proposing for a second that harvesting such data en masse would be a worthwhile use of a TOC's time, just making the point.

And it wouldn't work for the many unbarriered stations, including Altnabreac

 

[swt_passenger]

Although with the technology available with e-tickets scanned at gatelines, surely no reason why it *couldn't* be?

Not that I'm proposing for a second that harvesting such data en masse would be a worthwhile use of a TOC's time, just making the point.

I was thinking more of the situation at Altnabreac, posed by @Mcr Warrior

 

[Dai Corner]

I dare say guards could count the number of passengers joining or leaving the train there without being unduly distracted from their safety-critical duties if accurate numbers were required for some reason.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I dare say guards could count the number of passengers joining or leaving the train there without being unduly distracted from their safety-critical duties if accurate numbers were required for some reason.

Just trying to ascertain whether station useage *might* perhaps be higher than the 280 persons per annum that @kaysha mentioned. Maybe, maybe not. Who knows?

 

[najaB]

I dare say guards could count the number of passengers joining or leaving the train there without being unduly distracted from their safety-critical duties if accurate numbers were required for some reason.

Indeed. It's not difficult to count to zero, after all!

 

[Starmill]

I think ScotRail services are still counted manually sometimes by a person? Obviously it's only a tiny sample, and I don't know if they do the Far North end to end. It'd be a very dull shift. Is their class 158 fleet fitted with auto counters?

 

[paul1609]

Ive never alighted at Altnabreac but I have walked the End to End trail which passes about 4 miles south of there via Dalwanian Lodge. I enjoyed walking through the flo area but that area isnt even particularly attractive. Theres lots of places in the north of Scotland that id visit including Caithness but Altnabreac just isnt one of them. i understand the principle involved but I'd just permanantly close the station and end all this bother. In reality I dont think it is anymore a vital public service than say Gorton on the WHL

 

[najaB]

i understand the principle involved but I'd just permanantly close the station and end all this bother. In reality I dont think it is anymore a vital public service than say Gorton on the WHL

It's not, by any stretch of the imagination. But, speaking of principles, what precedent does it set if a station is closed because of the actions of two [crazy] people who don't like the railway?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ive never alighted at Altnabreac but I have walked the End to End trail which passes about 4 miles south of there via Dalwanian Lodge. I enjoyed walking through the flo area but that area isnt even particularly attractive. Theres lots of places in the north of Scotland that id visit including Caithness but Altnabreac just isnt one of them. i understand the principle involved but I'd just permanantly close the station and end all this bother. In reality I dont think it is anymore a vital public service than say Gorton on the WHL

Absolutely not. The station could easily justify closure on the grounds of lack of usage, but bullies cannot be allowed to win under any circumstances. It's like people who move in next to a pub and try to get it closed - such people must never be allowed to succeed because there are proper ways to do things and this is not one.

It's not, by any stretch of the imagination, but speaking of principles what precedent does it set if a station is closed because of the actions of two [crazy] people who don't like the railway?

Precedent doesn't matter. Bullies must never, ever be allowed to win.

 

[najaB]

Precedent doesn't matter. Bullies must never, ever be allowed to win.

I think we're in agreement - giving in to their behaviour would set a precedent that would encourage others.

 

[185143]

And it wouldn't work for the many unbarriered stations, including Altnabreac

Oh I quite agree. I was merely intending to propose pretty much the only way it could possibly be done.

 

[Trainbike46]

It's not, by any stretch of the imagination, but speaking of principles what precedent does it set if a station is closed because of the actions of two [crazy] people who don't like the railway?

Absolutely not. The station could easily justify closure on the grounds of lack of usage, but bullies cannot be allowed to win under any circumstances. It's like people who move in next to a pub and try to get it closed - such people must never be allowed to succeed because there are proper ways to do things and this is not one.



Precedent doesn't matter. Bullies must never, ever be allowed to win.

I think we're in agreement - giving in to their behaviour would set a precedent that would encourage others.

Absolutely agreed with both of you - the fact that these people have behaved in this way means the station shouldn't be closed, at least not until these people have moved away again, because anything else could lead to more people trying this approach. If you don't want to live next to a station, don't buy a former station house! there's loads of houses available that aren't next to a railway line.

 

[mike57]

It seems to me by the householders actions the station is less likely to close, and in fact when reopened will experiencea surge in usage due to peoples curiosity. If they had just sucked it up and not courted publicity the station usage might have tailed off to the point where even if not closed it would drop down to a once a day/week 'parliamentary' service.

 

[D6130]

The female resident - a former DC from Stockport GMP Elizabeth Holt knows the law well,

She may know the English law well....but I wonder how much she knows about Scots law?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Absolutely not. The station could easily justify closure on the grounds of lack of usage, but bullies cannot be allowed to win under any circumstances.

It does make a change from reading postings where website members castigate verbally people who dare move into a house near a long-closed railway line when there are aspirational unofficial possible line reopenings in the next 100 years or so....

 

[Stathern Jc]

She may know the English law well....but I wonder how much she knows about Scots law?

It may be that several readers here hope that she will soon have an opportunity to learn a little more about Scots Law.

 

[paul1609]

Absolutely agreed with both of you - the fact that these people have behaved in this way means the station shouldn't be closed, at least not until these people have moved away again, because anything else could lead to more people trying this approach. If you don't want to live next to a station, don't buy a former station house! there's loads of houses available that aren't next to a railway line.

In principle I also agree with you, In practise I think the public fund is limited and its a matter of prioiritising it where it bring the most benefit. Expenditure of whats likely to be a 6 figure sum on Police time, legal fees, Network R admin time and possible imprisonment to maintain access to a very obscure station whose most likely users are people wanting to visit every station and people making a living off weird you tube videos and tiktoks just doesnt pass the test of most benefit for me Im afraid. if it was something like Courour yes, Altnabreac just close it, it saves on brake lining and diesel as well.