Ravensthorpe was under closure notice recently (even though its being resited).
-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
No trains to call at Altnabreac for the foreseeable future
- Thread starter alex17595
- Start date
- Status
Ravensthorpe was under closure notice recently (even though its being resited).
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
flitwickbeds
Member
- Joined
- 19 Apr 2017
- Messages
- 585
What minefield is it?
- TOC/DfT/NR/whoever announces that they plan to permanently close Reddish South and Denton due to low passenger numbers, the inability to route more trains through, and to reinvest the money saved elsewhere
- They publish this at the station, in local press, and in a few national newspapers (as I understand they have to do under the closure process - although of course there are much more efficient ways today of getting such a message out to the wider public)
- They hire a couple of hours at a few village halls to listen to concerns and present their plans
- They draw up a report that says X number of people formally objected to the closure, but that only Y people used the station annually, so they're going to close it anyway
- At the next timetable change, there is no longer a service
Have I missed anything out?
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Yes, the geographical comparison to the station locations of Reddish South and Denton stations to that of Altnabreac station and the population numbers of the locations that would be served by a railway station.
One person claiming hardship can hold things up for a long time. According to John Davies a 'Mrs Mop' held up the closure of Cefn Onn Halt for a very long time - and that was being replaced by the better sited Lisvane and Thornhill rather than being closed without replacement.
Mcr Warrior
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 8 Jan 2009
- Messages
- 14,684
A local councillor by the name of Mrs Jacqueline Lysaght, so that the Cefn Onn stop could still continue to be used by her cleaner!
Again, AIUI, unless things have changed, every objection has to be independently evaluated, taken into consideration and be shown to have been! That doesn’t come cheap and is one of the reasons formal closure procedures have recently been limited to stations where provision of a replacement is so close that almost all objections can be deemed to be mischievous. (Angel Road presumably had one)
flitwickbeds
Member
- Joined
- 19 Apr 2017
- Messages
- 585
Meridian Water, yes.
Ok, I'm starting to understand a bit better now.
What objection could anyone possibly have to formally closing, say, Manchester United, or IBM Halt?
In the case of IBM, AIUI the whole site is up for redevelopment - at which point the station can start being served again. Keeping the station open until then means maintaining public access in an area where antisocial behaviour was becoming a serious problem. Closing it would mean going through all the planning etc for a new station…
Don’t know whether Man U needs a closure procedure - was it ever a public station? (I know the public used it, but only in connection with events - could you leave the platform without an event ticket?
Last edited:
Those are less difficult. Altnabreac on the other hand could be someone's only link to the outside world.
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
They started out claiming that the General Sasines Register showed they owned the land. When that didn’t work- just as we all said it wouldn’t, because it was bunkum- they have now tried to go with another legal theory. Each theory they try is more bonkers than the last, each conspiracy they claim is more outlandish than the last.
I genuinely and sincerely hope that Network Rail bankrupt the pair of them and that they lose everything.
The Reddish South line is used frequently for empty stock moves, so the crew have route knowledge anyway. There is a cost of providing the unit for the one day a week, but it’s negligible in the grand scheme of things. The station would have to be maintained even if it was closed unless it was completely demolished, and demolition next to a live railway doesn’t come cheap.
As for the legal process, it was made harder with privatisation. There’s a reason why BR did a massive tidy-up just before privatisation and shut the likes of Attercliffe Road, Altofts, and Miles Platting.
Last edited:
Gloster
Established Member
I wonder if they are risking being declared vexatious litigants in accordance with Section 100 of the Courts Reform (Scotland) Act 2014. It can apply to proceedings that have already started if this is specified.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Besides the couple who are mentioned in the legal process, how near to the station does the person mentioned above who needs the railway as a link to the outside world?
Sealink
Member
- Joined
- 16 Aug 2006
- Messages
- 361
I honestly don't understand where their "privilege" comes from. Altnabreac has been an accessible station for decades.
Who do they think they are?
I actually haven't watched their tirades but my brother does and says they don't even pronounce Altnabreac properly!
Who do they think they are?
I actually haven't watched their tirades but my brother does and says they don't even pronounce Altnabreac properly!
And how did everyone manage during the long temporary closure? Was a rail replacement rail helicopter provided?
H F Stephens
Member
Almost certainly vexatious in intent, if not in law.
It may yet usefully serve to shine a spotlight on some extremely lax contracts for disposal of otherwise ‘live’ railway property in the past, however.
There is at least one other situation in Scotland in which property law would struggle to direct, should either party seek to challenge the other, owing to the casual and therefore (arguably) negligent manner in which the original disposal was conducted.
Caveat venditor, and all that.
Wikipedia mentions a gamekeeper's cottage and former school as residences near the station. On Google Earth there are a few properties within a 10-25 minute walk away. It only takes one of them to claim hardship.
It was closed for 17 months or so thanks to this dispute. Did anyone claim hardship then?
Yes, I've always thought it was pronounced alt-na-brae-ach.
She says olt-ni-brek.
Breac is the Gaelic for speckled. You will notice that it is also contained in the Gaelic translation for Falkirk as the Faw Kirk is a speckled (due to its variated stonework) church in Scots.
Alan "Breck" Stewart, of Robert Louis Stevenson's fame and played by Michael Caine in the 1971 film Kidnapped, was also facially speckled (pockmarked due to smallpox).
In the case of Altnabreac the Alt refers to stream or water and Breac to trout - as a trout is a speckled fish.
Alan "Breck" Stewart, of Robert Louis Stevenson's fame and played by Michael Caine in the 1971 film Kidnapped, was also facially speckled (pockmarked due to smallpox).
In the case of Altnabreac the Alt refers to stream or water and Breac to trout - as a trout is a speckled fish.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Were those named above only ever able to use rail as a mode of transport? How were supplies ever delivered to them?
Mcr Warrior
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 8 Jan 2009
- Messages
- 14,684
The remote Altnabreac area can still, in theory, be accessed via a series of rather bumpy unsurfaced private forestry tracks, can't it?
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
That is what I had been led to believe and my posting related to a another posting that seemed to suggest rail was the only mode of travel in the area.
Mcr Warrior
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 8 Jan 2009
- Messages
- 14,684
Think there was a story in the local North of Scotland newspapers a decade or so ago, stating that the Royal Mail had ceased local postal deliveries in the Altnabreac area, as the access tracks were deemed to be no longer in a satisfactory condition to drive along.
Who said that?
Here's the link to the story on the BBC News website:
:
Royal Mail deliveries to four remote properties suspended - BBC News
The Royal Mail apologises, adding that it has had to suspend deliveries due to the distance and state of private roads.
www-bbc-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org
Extract from the above link:
"26 October 2017
The Royal Mail has suspended deliveries to four addresses in part of Caithness.
It said its staff faced hour-long round trips to reach the homes at Altnabreac on private tracks which are in a poor condition.
A spokeswoman said postal staff were also unable to call for help if they had a breakdown due to there being no mobile reception in the area.
Residents can arrange to pick up mail from another address or in Halkirk, a round trip of more than 40 miles."
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Would the same apply to the ambulance service in medical emergencies?
I would imagine that they would call out the Mountain Rescue people with an all-terrain vehicle.
Mcr Warrior
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 8 Jan 2009
- Messages
- 14,684
Or maybe an Air Ambulance depending, of course, on the nature of the medical emergency. Believe there's one based in Inverness.
Fortunately, they can just hop on a train.
Next episode 29th May, I believe.
- Status