Norman Tebbit and gay marriage.

[Wyvern]

The newspapers were in an uproar this week over an interview the former Conservative Party chairman Lord Norman Tebbit gave to Big Issue, describing it as foul-mouthed and making a big issue (to coin a phrase) of some slightly tongue-in-cheek comments about gay marriage.

In essence they were to support his contention that "the government discussed it for 20 minutes on the morning of its announcement. They’d done no work on it beforehand."

"I said to a minister I know: have you thought this through? "

Nor was it particularly foul-mouthed. Granted there were two "f***s" which is pretty commonplace word nowadays, especially in American texts, and a "bugger"

Actually it’s the best left-wing piece I've seen from a Tory and shows what people say when using their common sense and not meekly following the party line. No wonder the establishment set out to rubbish it. The texts in the various publications, including the BBC and the Pink Paper were so similar one might think they had been copied uncritically from some Downing Street press release.

So if you are going to comment at all, please read the actual article first:

http://www.bigissue.com/features/interviews/2438/lord-tebbit-gay-marriage-lesbian-queen-full-interview

If you saw Norman Tebbit’s arrival at Margaret Thatcher’s funeral last month you’ll have noticed he no longer quite fitted the “Chingford Skinhead” image he acquired in the 1980s. Now he is 82, frail and slightly hunched over.

He might have received a hearty cheer from the crowd as he arrived at St Paul’s Cathedral but there are those who will forever remember Tebbit as the only person in Thatcher’s government who made her seem slightly cuddly by comparison.

He might have lost the menace and the swagger but Tebbit’s words still carry some weight with significant sectors of traditional Tory support. Which has been particularly apparent over the past month, with his apparent endorsement of UKIP’s policies.

Some see him as officially aligned with Nigel Farage’s party, whom he has repeatedly suggested represent many traditional Conservative values more closely than the current Conservative leadership.

He denies that he’s switched allegiance. “I’ve been a Conservative my whole life and I’ll be damned if I’m going to be kicked out now,” he tells me. “I’ve only actually met Nigel Farage a couple of times.”

Does he think they will be able to sustain their recent success? “If they make significant gains in the European elections I know there’s people rich enough to get involved and fund a significant campaign at a general election,” he says.... (article continues)

 

[bnm]

I've read it twice. And I'm coming down on the side of mischievousness rather than firmly held views. I think the Chingford skinhead had his tongue firmly planted in his cheek.

That said it's nothing new for a political dinosaur to poo-poo the current leadership of his or her party.

As for the current crop of politicians having not worked in a bank and thus having a restricted worldview. That made me laugh out loud even if said in jest. A bank? What about a school, hospital, the armed forces, a supermarket, a factory? All more likely to give you a more rounded worldview than a sodding bank.

 

[43021HST]

That interview was more about him recounting days gone by, rather than his views on gay marriage, that you don't reach until the last paragraph. This is just some puff piece for an old tory warthog.

 

[yorksrob]

All I‘ll say is that we don‘t want these Tories in Government doing eachother favours

 

[ainsworth74]

All I‘ll say is that we don‘t want these Tories in Government doing eachother favours

If you cant do each other favours whilst in Government then what's the point of being the Government!?

 

[tbtc]

I don't know whether to dismiss Tebbit as a Prince Phillip figure - the kind of "probably well meaning, but likely to say something awkward" relative at a wedding...

...or to treat him as a fascinating historical figure - the embodiment of the way that Thatcher's governments appealed to traditional Labour voters ("Essex Man" / "C2s"/ "upwardly mobile" etc).

He's a funny one. Rightly or wrongly, Cameron's cabinet have nobody with that "populist" streak - maybe because the "right wing working class" are more likely to vote UKIP these days? Bless him, Eric Pickles tries to sound like a tubthumping "man of the people", but the Tories really miss a "plain talking" Tebbit (which is one reason why they were unable to achieve a majority when up against the unpopular Gordon Brown).

 

[yorksrob]

If you cant do each other favours whilst in Government then what's the point of being the Government!?

I‘m sure Lord Tebbit would agree with that (for Tory mp‘s)

 

[43021HST]

He's a funny one. Rightly or wrongly, Cameron's cabinet have nobody with that "populist" streak - maybe because the "right wing working class" are more likely to vote UKIP these days? Bless him, Eric Pickles tries to sound like a tubthumping "man of the people", but the Tories really miss a "plain talking" Tebbit (which is one reason why they were unable to achieve a majority when up against the unpopular Gordon Brown).

Most of the right wing working class (bigoted, ignorant and stupid) don't bother to vote now because of the 'they're all the same rhetoric'.
Politics and political activism has really stagnated since the last of the Thatcher years. So now we have stagnant politicians.
The likes of Ken Livingstone was a breath of fresh air during the Blair years, but now we're lumbered with bozo Boris.

 

[D841 Roebuck]

I don't know whether to dismiss Tebbit as a Prince Phillip figure - the kind of "probably well meaning, but likely to say something awkward" relative at a wedding...

There was a cracking cartoon by Steve Bell in the Grauniad about 30 years ago demonstrating how to tell the difference between Tebbit and Prince Philip.

Apparently it revolved around how the bald, aging, cadaverous person said the name of a popular item of menswear:

TRAASIS = Chingford Skinhead

TRIZERS = Phil the Greek.

 

[Oswyntail]

Most of the right wing working class (bigoted, ignorant and stupid) don't bother to vote now because of the 'they're all the same rhetoric'.

Quite stunningly patronising - one might even call this remark "bigoted, ignorant and stupid". Though left-wing "working class" have never been renowned for engaging in reasoned debate either.

Politics and political activism has really stagnated since the last of the Thatcher years. So now we have stagnant politicians.

I think the rot started in the 60's with the triumph of pragmatism that was Wilson, when, for the Labour Party, the maintenance of "power" became more important than what you did with it.

The likes of Ken Livingstone was a breath of fresh air during the Blair years, but now we're lumbered with bozo Boris.

Livingstone was never a "breath of fresh air", but, rather, a fetid belch, using the very worst of cabalistic politics to settle personal scores and reward personal favours.

 

[43021HST]

Quite stunningly patronising - one might even call this remark "bigoted, ignorant and stupid". Though left-wing "working class" have never been renowned for engaging in reasoned debate either.
I think the rot started in the 60's with the triumph of pragmatism that was Wilson, when, for the Labour Party, the maintenance of "power" became more important than what you did with it.
Livingstone was never a "breath of fresh air", but, rather, a fetid belch, using the very worst of cabalistic politics to settle personal scores and reward personal favours.

The rot set started in the 60s? Wasn't political activism very much a part of the culture from the sixties to the early eighties, such as the massive anti nuclear movement, anti Vietnam war protests, then in the seventies, the popularity of the trade unions and then the anti fascist movements in the late seventies through to the early eighties. It wasn't until the rise of consumerist greed culture, instigated by thatcher that channeled this political 'energy' into something more useless.

cabalistic politics to settle personal scores and reward personal favours? Wasn't that a method favored by the torys?

 

[ainsworth74]

Consumerism arrived before the 1980s...

 

[43021HST]

Consumerism arrived before the 1980s...

I'm not going to deny that, consumerism has always been very much a part of capitalism, but in its current unbridled form I would say dates from the eighties.

 

[Wyvern]

It wasnt consumerism that appeared in the eighties but neo liberalism - the idea that everyone is out for themselves, as opposed to the idea that people benefit from being part of a community and should return something to it.

Hence Mrs Thatcher said "They're casting their problem on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It's our duty to look after ourselves and then, also to look after our neighbour. People have got the entitlements too much in mind, without the obligations, because there is no such thing as an entitlement unless someone has first met an obligation"

Unfortunately people listened to the first part but not the second. Thus we have the finance houses and banks messing around with the country's money to fill their wallets without regard to the rest of the country. And we have destruction of the welfare state - our social security - to make fortunes for Virgin and G4S and the multinationals - and how many of the politicians who are selling off the family silver have lucrative deals with these companies?

I've been accused of posting junk and of being provocative. Well may be the latter, but I'm too old to do much physically, but I can hope to get people looking at the issues - they are the ones who will suffer any possible future consequences. They are not false claims or attempts to cause arguments ( I thought forums were for discussions), but sourced from researched literature.

 

[tbtc]

Mrs Thatcher said "They're casting their problem on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It's our duty to look after ourselves and then, also to look after our neighbour. People have got the entitlements too much in mind, without the obligations, because there is no such thing as an entitlement unless someone has first met an obligation"

Unfortunately people listened to the first part but not the second

I'll be honest and say that I can't remember seeing the quote in full - I'm sure I must have in the past but the seven words highlighted in bold are all that I'd remembered.

The full quote gives a more rounded view. A bit like Peter Mandelson's oft quoted "We are intensely relaxed about people getting filthy rich" quote (which was actually "We are intensely relaxed about people getting filthy rich as long as they pay their taxes" - something that the filthy rich don't even deign to do these days - I think that Mandelson's full quote ought to be remembered.