Northern 323s

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Starmill

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What's happening to the 323s operating the Manchester Airport (and Crewe Via Manchester airport) services? Why have they so often been replaced with 142s or 150s recently?? Today, I saw a 150 on the Picadilly-Crewe via Stockport too! Is this just while they're having their interior refresh? And are services to Hadfield/Glossop similarly afflicted? Also, have Northern inherited some of FGWs 142s? I saw one with pink highlights and dynamic lines on the seats recently.
 
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323235

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The 323s have always been intensively diagramed with 15 diagrams for 17 units on weekdays so given that there are at the moment upto 2 units out for refresh and exams, you can see that there is simply no slack should a unit need any attention or be scheduled for maintenance.

This is why you often get a DMU on Alderley Edge/Manchester Airport/Crewe services.

Yes 7 x 142s were transferred from First Great Western to Northern last December, they were 142001,009,029,030,063,064 and 068.
 

aformeruser

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In the December 08 timetable change extra Stoke and Airport services were introduced but Northern didn't get any extra EMUs, so that meant some services under the wires at peak times are scheduled to be Pacer operated. If a unit is out-of-service or it's a match day at Old Trafford (when 323s run Manchester to Old Trafford shuttles) then there will be off-peak services that are diesel traction as well.

Generally the Glossop route is free of diesel traction, only the Crewe/Alderley Edge/Airport services will see it and a peak time Macclesfield-Manchester service. All Stoke services are 323 operated, 142s could only operate non-stop between Macclesfield and Stoke for clearance reasons plus the longer journey on the WCML means a 75mph unit would cause serious pathing problems.

Note that a pair of 142s is 62m long and has 240 seats maximum, while a 323 is 69m long and has 284 seats maximum, so don't fall under the false illusion that you're actually getting more capacity if a pair of Pacers turn up.
 

tom1649

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Wouldn't they have fallen foul of the same problem that caused the slam door stock in the South East to be withdrawn, had they not been withdrawn anyway?
Yes, unfortunately the Mk1 ban would have put paid to my plan. Could have added door locks to some 312s though, seeing as they were Mk2s.

At the time it seemed like a premature waste of good units.
 

CC 72100

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Yes 7 x 142s were transferred from First Great Western to Northern last December, they were 142001,009,029,030,063,064 and 068.
FGW did a nice little refresh on them when they came down to Devon for a bit. Although they were still 142s, First's refresh smartened them up. :)
 

Starmill

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Note that a pair of 142s is 62m long and has 240 seats maximum, while a 323 is 69m long and has 284 seats maximum, so don't fall under the false illusion that you're actually getting more capacity if a pair of Pacers turn up.
Oh, if only it were a PIAR of the darn things! How a single 142 can be put on to replace a (usually, full) 323 I do not know. Since Mauldeth Road is the last stop on the line, if this happens to a Picadilly bound service in the morning peak, not everyone can get on!
 

YorkshireBear

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Oh, if only it were a PIAR of the darn things! How a single 142 can be put on to replace a (usually, full) 323 I do not know. Since Mauldeth Road is the last stop on the line, if this happens to a Picadilly bound service in the morning peak, not everyone can get on!
I can tell you, its because northern dont have enough stock.
 

150222

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What's happening to the 323s operating the Manchester Airport (and Crewe Via Manchester airport) services? Why have they so often been replaced with 142s or 150s recently?? Today, I saw a 150 on the Picadilly-Crewe via Stockport too! Is this just while they're having their interior refresh? And are services to Hadfield/Glossop similarly afflicted? Also, have Northern inherited some of FGWs 142s? I saw one with pink highlights and dynamic lines on the seats recently.
I have never seen a DMU on Hadfield's, does it ever happen? Last time I used a Man Picc-Crewe via Stockport service 150226 turned up.
 

Geeves

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Its happened occasionally when the power has had to be switched off 150222.

As said above even with the extra trains Northern have received they are still short, due to various units being out of use long term. A couple of 142s, 150s and 156s in the shed having ridiculous amounts of welding done to get rid off all the rotten floors. Yesterday was particularly bad in regards to NH. All short formed, nothing on the shed except tumble weeds!!
 

323235

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In the December 08 timetable change extra Stoke and Airport services were introduced but Northern didn't get any extra EMUs, so that meant some services under the wires at peak times are scheduled to be Pacer operated. If a unit is out-of-service or it's a match day at Old Trafford (when 323s run Manchester to Old Trafford shuttles) then there will be off-peak services that are diesel traction as well.
They also have recently started running DMU's to Manchester United Football Ground with at least one of the three service before the match originating from Buxton on at least a handful of occasions.
 

aformeruser

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They also have recently started running DMU's to Manchester United Football Ground with at least one of the three service before the match originating from Buxton on at least a handful of occasions.
That might explain why one Saturday Buxton service I saw was a 4 car 150 with all carriages open but only had around 40 passengers on board.
 

jizzer

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there is always one having a c3/c6 upgrade at the moment, one coach of a 323 involved in an incident near Kidsgrove is off having repairs so that is 2 units gone straight away and general failures ie traction motors and converters and door problems can keep one or two on longsight and i think longsight have their hands full introducing the 11 car pendo's at the moment.
 

323Matt

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I don't know whether it's just bad luck but I went the whole week last week doing Heaton Chapel to Cheadle Hulme return without seeing a single 323!
A 150 has turned up on the 8:04 out of Manchester for at least 3 weeks now if not more! And if it wasn't a 150 it was a 156 :) or a Pacer...
 

TTI

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Think the 0804 may be diagrammed for a diesel unit. If not, it's one of the first diagrams to be substituted as it goes ecs Crewe-Alderley to pick up Alderley Edge diagrams from the 0949 ALD-MAN.

Re: the above posts, I have had a 150/2 on a Manchester-Hadfield, and the most memorable ManUre football special to the ground was 142005 on one engine only! - Loads left behind and I can't believe we actually got there. (Good job it wasn't uphill).
 

323Matt

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Not sure it's diagrammed for a DMU because at times during the year it can go through a long period of 323 operation but then change to DMUs for months at a time with the odd 323. So this probably would suggest it's one of the first services to be subbed when there's a 323 shortage :(
 

Greybeard33

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Yes 7 x 142s were transferred from First Great Western to Northern last December, they were 142001,009,029:cry:,030,063,064 and 068.
FGW did a nice little refresh on them when they came down to Devon for a bit. Although they were still 142s, First's refresh smartened them up. :)
Heres 142001 at Blackpool
I rode on 142001 this week and it did indeed seem in pretty good condition compared with most of Northern's Pacers - no rattles or oily smells, good acceleration, reasonably clean inside and out. It still has the bus seats though.
 

Thomas6187

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one coach of a 323 involved in an incident near Kidsgrove is off having repairs
That unit has been back in service for well over a year now.

Two of the 323 diagram can easily be changed to a DMU, which include the Airport Shuttle and the diagram starting with the 08:04 to Crewe. This does the 20:04 Crewe service later in the day which is why the timing are slighty different.
 
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aformeruser

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I rode on 142001 this week and it did indeed seem in pretty good condition compared with most of Northern's Pacers - no rattles or oily smells, good acceleration, reasonably clean inside and out. It still has the bus seats though.
142001 has had the ceiling painted a light blue colour instead of the usual white.

Although, a few of the seat covers are coming a bit loose (which is the same as on the Northern refreshed ones) and one of the seats has had a Northern seat cover put on the lower part while a FGW seat cover remains on the upper part.
 

jizzer

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That unit has been back in service for well over a year now.

Two of the 323 diagram can easily be changed to a DMU, which include the Airport Shuttle and the diagram starting with the 08:04 to Crewe. This does the 20:04 Crewe service later in the day which is why the timing are slighty different.
Well considering that the incident I am referring happened less than 2 months ago that's pretty amazing. You might be thinking of the derailment at North Rode. This 323 hit some 'stuff' that had been thrown on the track just past kidsgrove which caused a lot of damage to the unit.
 
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