Northern cancellations getting worse

[Welly]

There were a lot of cancellations yesterday around Sheffield too. Was there an issue that kept more trains than normal on Sheffield depot as there seemed to be a lot stabled?

Ugh! Tell me about it! I went by Northern to Retford to catch the "The Last Chance?" railtour yesterday and my outgoing was running but when I got back to Retford later, my return was cancelled! Next time I catch a railtour, I will just drive and park at the pick-up station rather than rely on Northern Trains.

 

[Halifaxlad]

Northern is getting worse and yet somepeople think Northern should take over TPE (upside down emoji here)

 

[northernchris]

There were engineering works yesterday (possibly Rotherham?) which meant the Leeds - Rotherham - Sheffield service was only running Leeds - Moorthorpe, saving a unit. Other units may have also been saved due to this. That being said, Sheffield depot does appear to struggle more than most on the Northern network, are they losing crew as quick as they can train them?

 

[Peterthegreat]

Ind

There were engineering works yesterday (possibly Rotherham?) which meant the Leeds - Rotherham - Sheffield service was only running Leeds - Moorthorpe, saving a unit. Other units may have also been saved due to this. That being said, Sheffield depot does appear to struggle more than most on the Northern network, are they losing crew as quick as they can train them?

Indeed. But despite Sheffield (and Leeds) depots not having to work the whole service Northern still decided to slash the Doncaster stopping service by a third.

 

[YorksLad12]

Engineering work is/was taking place between Sheffield and Swinton this weekend, also affecting Tram Train services (which were diverted to Meadowhall Interchange). It's also the case that West Yorkshire and Greater Manchester will complain loudest, as over 50% of journeys are made in or between those areas... so if you're going to cut any services, cut where you're going to get less grief.

 

[ricoblade]

Lots of cancellations on Lincoln/Gainsbrough to Sheffield/Leeds today due to "shortage of train crew" and "changes to the published timetable", which is utter ********.

Luckily mine and my daughter's services all ran in between the cancellations, heard a couple of passengers says "It's the Easter Holidays, this always happens".

 

[Peterthegreat]

I suspect Northern will have cancelled around 100 trains today. Sheffield to York service abandoned completely, a third of Sheffield to Doncaster stoppers cancelled, last trains from Leeds and Doncaster to Sheffield cancelled, last train from Doncaster to Scunthorpe cancelled. No information on Northern website as to what passengers are supposed to do.

 

[Dave91131]

No information on Northern website as to what passengers are supposed to do.

Go away I'd guess. Make other arrangements, don't bother, etc etc.

At least LNER (another TOC continuously providing shambolic service) publish on their website advice for passengers of cancelled services (and there's a hell of a lot of them too).

 

[jayah]

Go away I'd guess. Make other arrangements, don't bother, etc etc.

At least LNER (another TOC continuously providing shambolic service) publish on their website advice for passengers of cancelled services (and there's a hell of a lot of them too).

How long before some politician demands these delinquent operators are nationalised?

Once the money grabbing privateers are removed from the equation we will reach the promised land?

 

[Peterthegreat]

How long before some politician demands these delinquent operators are nationalised?

Once the money grabbing privateers are removed from the equation we will reach the promised land?

Er Northern is nationalised.....

 

[Halish Railway]

Er Northern is nationalised.....

I suspect that was more an ironic joke, the butt of which being clueless politicians that see nationalisation as a panacea.

I'm sure that the real panacea will be the May timetable change which will see my local line loose half of its off-peak Bradford services.

 

[Killingworth]

I suspect Northern will have cancelled around 100 trains today. Sheffield to York service abandoned completely, a third of Sheffield to Doncaster stoppers cancelled, last trains from Leeds and Doncaster to Sheffield cancelled, last train from Doncaster to Scunthorpe cancelled. No information on Northern website as to what passengers are supposed to do.

It seems west side may be doing better? Certainly the only Northern service at Sheffield that's crewed from Manchester has run everything so far today, albeit a few running late.

 

[MattRat]

I suspect that was more an ironic joke, the butt of which being clueless politicians that see nationalisation as a panacea.

I'm sure that the real panacea will be the May timetable change which will see my local line loose half of its off-peak Bradford services.

It's a great way to meet decarbonization targets though

 

[ModernRailways]

It seems west side may be doing better? Certainly the only Northern service at Sheffield that's crewed from Manchester has run everything so far today, albeit a few running late.

Northern seem to go through phases, the west side was bad before christmas with lots of cancellations and short notice changes, especially due to train crew shortages.
Is it a training issue and getting new staff in? Do they run a few courses for Manchester/west side based crew then a few months later it’s all east side so the west then gets worse for a little while.

I know up here in Newcastle things are pretty good for northern generally speaking, so is it more of an issue for the southern sections where service is more intense (compared to what we have at least) and requires higher staffing requirements?
I’m aware of a few occasions up here where a driver and a guard have both had different journeys cancelled (similar trip durations) because there’s no guard, but there is a driver or no driver, but there is a guard and instead of some proactivity and the guard and driver working one of those services and only one being cancelled, both end up cancelled and the two then sit in mess room for a few hours. Not the crews fault but certainly with a bit of foresight could be done, obviously that’s different if the trips are different lengths and it would impact clocking on/off time or breaks etc.

 

[Peterthegreat]

It seems west side may be doing better? Certainly the only Northern service at Sheffield that's crewed from Manchester has run everything so far today, albeit a few running late.

I agree. I reckon about 80 % were in Yorkshire (South, West and East), 10% were in the North East and 10% in the North West. Interestingly I would say 90% were also diesel operated. Is there some cost saving going on?

 

[johntea]

Terrible today around West and North Yorkshire, faulty trains and lack of crew it seems! (then further knock on delays caused by having to be stuck behind a delayed service!)

Still I don't actually mind too much compared to other operators as long as they keep offering the option of freebie tickets for delay repay!

 

[skyhigh]

There is a fairly big shortage of guards on the East, along with quite a number of drivers leaving for other operators or freight. It'll get worse before it gets better.

 

[Peterthegreat]

Northern off to another good start this morning......
The following services from Sheffield cancelled.
05.37 Huddersfield
05.42 Scarborough
05.45 Lincoln
05.48 Doncaster
05.51 Barnsley
06.02 Leeds
06.05 Adwick
06.10 Retford
06.27 Doncaster
06.30 Huddersfield
06.58 Gainsborough
07.01 Adwick
07.24 York
07.55 Gainsborough

 

[bob007]

TPE having another shocking day in Yorkshire too. Is there a link?

 

[D6130]

Northern off to another good start this morning......
The following services from Sheffield cancelled.
05.37 Huddersfield
05.42 Scarborough
05.45 Lincoln
05.48 Doncaster
05.51 Barnsley
06.02 Leeds
06.05 Adwick
06.10 Retford
06.27 Doncaster
06.30 Huddersfield
06.58 Gainsborough
07.01 Adwick
07.24 York
07.55 Gainsborough

The problem seems to be with Sheffield traincrew depot. They must be desperately short of drivers or conductors....or both. As all of this morning's cancellations are on the early shift and most of last week's seemed to have been in the evening, perhaps all, or most, of the vacancies are on the same shift on the roster?

 

[jayah]

There is a fairly big shortage of guards on the East, along with quite a number of drivers leaving for other operators or freight. It'll get worse before it gets better.

Nobody has ever managed to square the circle where people can leave at three months notice and their replacement takes a year to train up.

Perhaps if they nationalise freight and open access, then impose standard regional pay rates across operators, it might stem the losses.

 

[Birstall John]

Was about to set off, to catch the 10.22 Leeds to Doncaster Train, and sadly it’s cancelled, what a surprise.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Was about to set off, to catch the 10.22 Leeds to Doncaster Train, and sadly it’s cancelled, what a surprise.

Not even on Journey Check??

 

[ricoblade]

There is a fairly big shortage of guards on the East, along with quite a number of drivers leaving for other operators or freight. It'll get worse before it gets better.

One of my mates is a Northern driver based at Sheffield and is in the process of doing exactly this, along with others.

 

[Peterthegreat]

The problem seems to be with Sheffield traincrew depot. They must be desperately short of drivers or conductors....or both. As all of this morning's cancellations are on the early shift and most of last week's seemed to have been in the evening, perhaps all, or most, of the vacancies are on the same shift on the roster?

If there was an out and out shortage then I would have expected the pattern of cancellations to repeat every two or three hours - but it wasn't. Cancellations from 1000 onwards were the normal pattern. This seems to suggest:-
1) extremely poor planning to leave so many early turns uncovered
or
2) Very good planning (at least short term) in getting crew to work overtime/rest day (ie getting late turn to come in early or middle turn to stay on). I can quite understand some people are happier working more social hours than very early or late turns.

However whatever the reasons the inability to provide trains for people to/from work is very poor. As an example the first seven trains from Mexborough and Conisbrough were cancelled. Northern Management (and the DfT?) should be ashamed.

 

[D6130]

If there was an out and out shortage then I would have expected the pattern of cancellations to repeat every two or three hours - but it wasn't. Cancellations from 1000 onwards were the normal pattern. This seems to suggest:-
1) extremely poor planning to leave so many early turns uncovered
or
2) Very good planning (at least short term) in getting crew to work overtime/rest day (ie getting late turn to come in early or middle turn to stay on). I can quite understand some people are happier working more social hours than very early or late turns.

However whatever the reasons the inability to provide trains for people to/from work is very poor. As an example the first seven trains from Mexborough and Conisbrough were cancelled. Northern Management (and the DfT?) should be ashamed.

They should indeed....but, to be honest, I don't think they really care that much. IMHO, what is needed - at least in the short term - is sustained pressure on the region's MPs. Bombard them with e-mails folks....and, if you live in a marginal constituency as I do, remind them that there's only a year and a half 'till the next general election!

 

[Peterthegreat]

They should indeed....but, to be honest, I don't think they really care that much. IMHO, what is needed - at least in the short term - is sustained pressure on the region's MPs. Bombard them with e-mails folks....and, if you live in a marginal constituency as I do, remind them that there's only a year and a half 'till the next general election!

I have and will continue to do so. Fortunately my MP seems to be aware of the situation and has continued to question ministers (who respond mainly with garbage).
The problem is the responses from Northern are very glib and it needs someone with more detailed knowledge to grill them further. Unfortunately most MPs, however supportive, do not have this knowledge.

 

[jayah]

Fair enough.

I suppose the answer to that is that it doesn’t make any difference.

The OLR TOCs are essentially just employing the staff and carrying out the core business functions, with no real commercial incentives. The privately owned ones are being paid a fee under the NRCs, so also don’t really have any incentive to do more than the bare minimum under those contracts to ensure they get paid.

Ironically the OLR TOCs, well LNER, seem to do rather more business functions e.g. marketing than the so say privately owned ones.

The general rule is they are being run as train operators not businesses. This is fine for a national lockdown with no passengers, but now well past its sell by date, which is unfortunate as some NRCs are down for another 2-3 years.

 

[Birstall John]

Not even on Journey Check??

It actually stated it was cancelled due to crew issues, then it went and actually ran, with 2 guards too!

 

[317 forever]

The way Northern is run has left me unconvinced that Labour's plan to take the TOC contracts back into public ownership is necessarily the answer.