Northern Class 142 sightings

[IamTrainsYT]

142041, 043 and 045 were sat on #1 Holding siding on Newton Heath (next to the up Rochdale line, Thorpes Bridge Jn, easily visible from passing trains) in the early hours of this morning.

Still there an hour ago, might run one of these:
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y59418/2020-01-04/detailed
[URL]https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y67439/2020-01-04/detailed
[/URL]

 

[Llama]

They're not coupled, but they might be dumped together to get rid.

Those RTT links are just normal ECS moves.

 

[IamTrainsYT]

They're not coupled, but they might be dumped together to get rid.

Those RTT links are just normal ECS moves.

I know, I meant that could be them going into service later

 

[deltic14]

142 051 now with 158797 heading to Clitheroe now due to arrive 13:57. 142 061 with 158 815 left Bolton at 13:19 heading for Rochdale.

 

[Llama]

I know, I meant that could be them going into service later

I doubt they'll be out in service.

 

[deltic14]

142 035 also on Newton heath

 

[Llama]

As is 011 dumped on #4 Holding IIRC.

 

[whg1070]

Does anyone know if there are any Pacers out in the northeast today?

 

[IamTrainsYT]

Does anyone know if there are any Pacers out in the northeast today?

31/12/19 was the last day. Northern aren’t allowed to run any now. They will get fined

 

[Skymonster]

142090+158908 12:08 Man Vic-Bolton
142058+150137 12:13 Man Vic-Kirkby
142051+158797 12:42 Man Vic-Clitheroe

 

[LOL The Irony]

There were 2 142's coupled together at the south of MID today.

 

[IamTrainsYT]

Just seen a solo Ex merseyrail pacer sat outside Wigan wallgate. It had Manchester Victoria on its destination, anyone know what it was?

 

[ed1971]

Just seen a solo Ex merseyrail pacer sat outside Wigan wallgate. It had Manchester Victoria on its destination, anyone know what it was?

I struck gold this morning. I sat at Wigan Wallgate for around 30 minutes watching several trains come past. Then 142058 coupled to 150137 turned up on the 10:35 Kirkby to Manchester Vic service. I haven't seen any other 142s in service around Manchester today, but two were parked outside the shed opposite Longsight depot. I only got a glance of them, but I think that one could have been 142062. 142s can only operate now coupled to a PRM complying unit.

 

[deltic14]

Just seen a solo Ex merseyrail pacer sat outside Wigan wallgate. It had Manchester Victoria on its destination, anyone know what it was?

By process of elimination the only surviving ex Merseyrail sets I can't account for today are 47 and 55.
41, 43, and 45 were on Newton Heath in the siding next to the Rochdale line. They had been observed there early in the morning and had not moved every time I passed. 51 was working with an escort on the Clitheroe route and 58 and escort were on the Kirkby line.

 

[IamTrainsYT]

By process of elimination the only surviving ex Merseyrail sets I can't account for today are 47 and 55.
41, 43, and 45 were on Newton Heath in the siding next to the Rochdale line. They had been observed there early in the morning and had not moved every time I passed. 51 was working with an escort on the Clitheroe route and 58 and escort were on the Kirkby line.

51 + 58 are also ex merseyrails and were out today

 

[Mat17]

No Pacers of any sort present in Leeds today. However, slightly OT but I am wondering how the new access rules work for the non-pacer stock. Noticed a solitary 150 arrive in Leeds in old Northern livery, not sure if this set (I didn't catch the number) has been modified yet or not. It certainly appeared to have been untouched since old Northern Rail days. Are sprinters still allowed to run around without PRM mods?

 

[IamTrainsYT]

No Pacers of any sort present in Leeds today. However, slightly OT but I am wondering how the new access rules work for the non-pacer stock. Noticed a solitary 150 arrive in Leeds in old Northern livery, not sure if this set (I didn't catch the number) has been modified yet or not. It certainly appeared to have been untouched since old Northern Rail days. Are sprinters still allowed to run around without PRM mods?

I saw 150210 yesterday, that didn’t have a disabled toilet and was running on it’s own. I’m not sure on the rules but I think they would be the same as the pacers

 

[northernchris]

No Pacers of any sort present in Leeds today. However, slightly OT but I am wondering how the new access rules work for the non-pacer stock. Noticed a solitary 150 arrive in Leeds in old Northern livery, not sure if this set (I didn't catch the number) has been modified yet or not. It certainly appeared to have been untouched since old Northern Rail days. Are sprinters still allowed to run around without PRM mods?

There are some 150s which have had their PRM mods done but retain old livery. The easiest way to tell is the destination blind, if it's had the mods it will have an LED display, if not it will have a roller blind

 

[Mat17]

Ah I'll keep a lookout for the destination blind, that's a good pointer from a distance. The only reason I asked for clarification on sprinter PRM rules is, I was wondering if there was ever a scenario where a pacer ends up paired with a non compliant sprinter. I suppose clearly the set couldn't run in service, unless the pacer is detached! Despite neither unit being up to the new specs.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Ah I'll keep a lookout for the destination blind, that's a good pointer from a distance. The only reason I asked for clarification on sprinter PRM rules is, I was wondering if there was ever a scenario where a pacer ends up paired with a non compliant sprinter. I suppose clearly the set couldn't run in service, unless the pacer is detached! Despite neither unit being up to the new specs.

Neither can run in service unless they're both attached to compliant unit.

 

[IamTrainsYT]

Neither can run in service unless they're both attached to compliant unit.

150210 was on its own yesterday

 

[Mat17]

I bet it was the unit I saw this morning. It was a 150/2 running the Leeds - Selby service.

 

[simon7929]

I had an ex Scotrail unit on it's own from Eaglescliffe to Darlington on Friday. All 5 that Northern run are non compliant.

 

[simon7929]

There are also 6 156s in addition to the ex ScotRail ones that are non compliant.

 

[LOL The Irony]

150210 was on its own yesterday

Some unrefurbished trains have been given PRM mods.

 

[IamTrainsYT]

Some unrefurbished trains have been given PRM mods.

i looked inside, it had a normal toilet not a PRM one

 

[LOL The Irony]

i looked inside, it had a normal toilet not a PRM one

Well it's not supposed to be out then.

 

[SteveyBee131]

The way I read this:

With regards to Northern the state of play is quite interesting as well.

Pacers

24x Class 142s - Exemption to 31 May 2020 but only when scheduled to be coupled to a compliant unit.
23x Class 144s - Exemption to 31 August 2020 but only on the following specified routes:

• Leeds to Huddersfield
• Leeds to Sheffield
• Leeds to Knottingley
• Sheffield to Adwick
• Sheffield to Huddersfield via Penistone
• Sheffield to Gainsborough Central / Lincoln
• Huddersfield to Bradford Interchange via Halifax
• Huddersfield to Castleford via Wakefield
• Doncaster to Scunthorpe
• Sheffield to York via Rotherham and Moorthorpe
• York to Leeds via Micklefield
• York to Selby / Hull / Bridlington
• Bradford Interchange to Leeds
• Doncaster to Leeds
​

So from tomorrow Northern can only use twenty-four 142s and only when scheduled* to be coupled with a complaint unit. Meanwhile they can keep all the 144s in service but only on specified routes rather than specified routes or if coupled to a compliant unit. Though to be fair I think the list includes basically everywhere that a 144 would usually go anyway so I guess there would be no utility to adding a "if coupled to compliant" unit exemption!

*Scheduled is an interesting choice of wording. I assume it's to leave the flexibility to run a 142 solo if its compliant running mate fails during the day.

Sprinters

7x Class 150 - Exemption granted until 30 September 2020
6x Class 156 - Exemption granted until 31 December 2020
20x Class 153 - Exemption granted until 31 December 2020 but only if scheduled to operate with a compliant unit or on the following specified routes:

• Huddersfield to Bradford via Halifax
• Huddersfield to Castleford via Wakefield
• Huddersfield to Sheffield via Penistone
• Doncaster to Scunthorpe
• Barton upon Humber to Cleethorpes​

I assume that the 150s and 156s are just those that haven't yet made it through the PRM compliance work that's been ongoing with their fleet mates. So I'd gamble that they'll be finished before the new deadlines approach.

The 153s also gain a stay of execution for use to strengthen other services or to operate by themselves on a handful of routes. Looking at those routes I don't see that there's any reason for concern with capacity as I believe they're all well known for carting air about even on a 153!!

EMU

12x Class 323 - Exemption granted until 31 October 2020

As with the sprinters I assume that these just haven't yet got through their PRM modifications yet so will presumably also not worry the new deadline for their compliance too much.

Which is at the beginning of this thread:

PRM-TSI derogations: DfT publish letters with the details
(Sorry I don't know how to link to it, but this is the thread title to find)

it would appear that un PRM'd Sprinters have been granted an extension to the deadline, and so can operate solo.

 

[Mat17]

Ha, I haven't read this from the start only the last few months. Thanks, that does explain those units out and about without PRM mods. So back to my initial understanding, I assume these particular units cannot run with Pacers? As 142s can only run with modified stock.

 

[IamTrainsYT]

Running the 2 car 15:45 SHF-MAN is... 150111 without a PRM toilet