Northern Class 195: Construction/Introduction Updates

[Chester1]

I’d love for a situation where class 195s are so far down the Northern pecking order that they are only used on rural routes. When will that be, two franchises after this one?

Two franchises at ~10 years a piece, then they'd be getting on for 20-30 years old. I guess that'd be a reasonable age for them to be considered "bottom-of-barrel" stock.

I guess it depends on the definition of rural routes. I gave an example of three Northern Connect routes which would be suitable for battery power. Northern and its successors will need more stock to replace all the sprinters in the next 15 years. At that point the 195s will be less than half way through their usable life. The business case for new build DMUs longer than 2 or 3 coaches is very poor.

 

[Bevan Price]

I’d love for a situation where class 195s are so far down the Northern pecking order that they are only used on rural routes. When will that be, two franchises after this one?

They may be too heavy for some of the most rural routes, and quite probably regarded as too high-powered & expensive to run to locations such as Whitby, etc. I imagine they will still be on the core routes (e.g. Calder Valley) until at least 2050.

There may have to be a new lightweight design of train to operate on some of the less busy rural routes where there is little opportunity for running at high speeds.

 

[childwallblues]

Unit end gangways would have been a good choice but I can see why 2 and 3 car units have been ordered. The 195s are likely to spend the majority of their 30+ year lives on rural routes. They are a short / medium term fix to improve services while the long term infrastructure and rolling stock picture becomes clear. Porterbrooks plan to add batteries to 350s going off lease shows how much things could change. With 2+2 seating they would be suitable for the Liverpool, Barrow and Windermere to Manchester Airport Northern Connect services. Arriva may have discussed longer 195s and simply been told no by the Roscos.

Liverpool to Manchester Airport would probably require four cars as the route includes Widnes, Warrington Central and Birchwood, all major population centres.

 

[Clip]

The argument for 2-car DMUs is that as wires spread they will end up on branches, allowing 15x to be scrapped. I can't imagine Ormskirk-Preston or Preston-Colne ever needing more than 2-car.
.

Ive seen these services running as 4 car in the morning

 

[Toby Atkinson]

A 195 has just shot through Lancaster

 

[DJH1971]

195103 again in Liverpool Lime Street earlier today.

 

[Muenchener]

Happened to be at Silverdale yesterday when 195 105 & 195 103 stopped briefly working
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O55170/2018/11/08/advanced

Amusing to see it orange jackets at each door, when it stopped, to prevent the two middle aged ladies on that platform from boarding to Carnforth...

Lousy picture attached off the phone as confirmation... it was in the rain!

 

[Chris125]

An onboard video of 195103 has appeared on youtube:

 

[superalbs]

An onboard video of 195103 has appeared on youtube:

Rattles already?

 

[humbersidejim]

An onboard video of 195103 has appeared on youtube:

That diesel hydraulic gear change is really something!

From a standing start, it shifts. Looking good.

 

[samuelmorris]

I was just thinking earlier 'maybe this will be like a 172 but without the rattling panels'. Guess not...

 

[142Pilot]

They will look great sat in the sidings with no one to drive them.

*Taps nose.

 

[superkev]

That diesel hydraulic gear change is really something!

From a standing start, it shifts. Looking good.

I believe there diesel mechanical rather than diesel hydraulic and have the same multi speed ZF gearbox as the 172s.
K

 

[TRAX]

It is indeed mechanical (ZF EcoLife)

 

[Billy A]

I believe there diesel mechanical rather than diesel hydraulic and have the same multi speed ZF gearbox as the 172s.
K

I think it's a newer model but the same basic idea, it's a conventional car type automatic box. Interestingly one flaw with previous implementations of this gearbox for rail use is that the locking torque converter means that the train doesn't coast like a traditional hydrodynamic transmissioned one so the theoretical gain in efficiency is somewhat counterbalanced by the driver having to apply power going downhill, something ZF have addressed in their more recent gearboxes.

 

[TRAX]

Rattles already?

Not surprising coming from CAF

 

[AlexNL]

I like the moquette on those seats.

 

[pt_mad]

I like the moquette on those seats.

Is it moquette or cloth?

 

[AlexNL]

Is it moquette or cloth?

I have no idea.

Let me rephrase it: I like the pattern.

 

[pt_mad]

I have no idea.

Let me rephrase it: I like the pattern.

Cool. Sometimes moquette describes the sort of velour fabric that is traditionally associated with patterned seats. Cloth seems to be making a wider appearance now, same sort of fabric used in car seats.

 

[squizzler]

An onboard video of 195103 has appeared on youtube:

I assume it is fairly quiet as the engine noise is drowned out by the swishing of high-vis when the chap walks past near the start.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Not surprising coming from CAF

The 333s are pretty smooth and rattle-free, as were the CAF Spanish suburban EMUs I rode last month. Do CAF have a reputation for rattles then? How have they gained this reputation?

If it's just an issue with diesels, perhaps responsibility lies elsewhere?

 

[js1000]

Unacceptable that it rattles and it's not even in service yet - that's something you associate with a 30 year train, not a newly built unit. Judging by the rattle it will be lucky to make it to 20 years in service if the workmanship is anything to go by.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That diesel hydraulic gear change is really something!

It's a mechanical gearbox like the Class 172. This does rather improve acceleration over wasting horses warming up hydraulic fluid.

 

[superkev]

Unacceptable that it rattles and it's not even in service yet - that's something you associate with a 30 year train, not a newly built unit. Judging by the rattle it will be lucky to make it to 20 years in service if the workmanship is anything to go by.

I remember the ceiling panels of the 158s rattling when they where new and there certainly lasting
Eventually cured but things never happen fast on the railway.
K

 

[Bertie the bus]

They will look great sat in the sidings with no one to drive them.

*Taps nose.

You can’t beat inconveniencing your paying customers and then gloating about it.

Pure class.

 

[TRAX]

The 333s are pretty smooth and rattle-free, as were the CAF Spanish suburban EMUs I rode last month. Do CAF have a reputation for rattles then? How have they gained this reputation?

If it's just an issue with diesels, perhaps responsibility lies elsewhere?

My personal observation is that CAF is inconsistent with build quality. Some of their stuff is very well built and has a real impression of quality, while some others make their products look ‘low-cost’.

 

[squizzler]

I remember the ceiling panels of the 158s rattling when they where new and there certainly lasting
Eventually cured but things never happen fast on the railway.
K

Noise attenuation on rolling stock is not my field of expertise but I would assume the rattles in the interior trim can be made to go away by putting grommets on the screws or sticky padding onto the rear of the offending panels where they are in contact with something else. Are these little details that can be done as the builds progress, and rectified on units already in service?

 

[142Pilot]

You can’t beat inconveniencing your paying customers and then gloating about it.

Pure class.

The truth hurts.

And they way it's going that is exactly what is going to happen.

It's not gloating, I'd love to drive them. However their is an uglier bigger issue behind what I put.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The truth hurts.

And they way it's going that is exactly what is going to happen.

It's not gloating, I'd love to drive them. However their is an uglier bigger issue behind what I put.

Would that be a 3-letter issue starting with D in another thread? I'm sure I'd read that initial training will be for guarded operation?

If not, what other issue is there with them?