ohgoditsjames
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What’s the power factor for the 331’s?
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Northern Class 331: Construction/Introduction Updates
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Managed my first ride on 331005 earlier.
impressions are much the same as the 195s. Decent comfort (sat in an airline seat and had a ridiculous amount of leg room!), poor ride quality.
Frankly I’m astonished by the acceleration these units have though. I highly suspect that they could embarrass a Metrolink M5000, and they aren’t exactly slouches!
impressions are much the same as the 195s. Decent comfort (sat in an airline seat and had a ridiculous amount of leg room!), poor ride quality.
Frankly I’m astonished by the acceleration these units have though. I highly suspect that they could embarrass a Metrolink M5000, and they aren’t exactly slouches!
Grannyjoans
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The 331's can do 100mph but the M5000's can only accelerate to 50mph. They reach their top speed very, very easily.
There is even talk of allowing them to do 110mph soon.
They really are Worlds apart from the 142's, Sprinters and 319's.
It is just a shame their availability is still so poor. I am still working jobs that are diagrammed for '331' only for a '319' to turn up
There is even talk of allowing them to do 110mph soon.
They really are Worlds apart from the 142's, Sprinters and 319's.
It is just a shame their availability is still so poor. I am still working jobs that are diagrammed for '331' only for a '319' to turn up
It is just a shame their availability is still so poor. I am still working jobs that are diagrammed for '331' only for a '319' to turn up
There haven't been any reports to the forum about 319s substituting for 331s - are you able to give dates/times? AFAIK the 0636/1036/1337/1636/2115 Blackpools (Mon-Sat) are still diagrammed for 319s, anyway.
The 331s acceleration does seem pretty extraordinary on paper when compared to other units. Practically in a league of its own.
Class 331: 1.3ms
Class 313: 0.67ms
Class 315: 0.75ms
Class 321/322: 0.55ms
Class 334: 0.62ms
Class 375: 0.62ms
Class 376: 0.66ms
Class 380: 0.9/1.0ms
Class 395: 0.74ms
Class 397: 0.92ms
Class 455: 0.58ms
Class 465: 0.98ms
Why I was surprised to hear they would not be operating on the Liverpool to Crewe stoppers with its 29 stops given their could be some substantial savings/padding from improved acceleration the 331s offer. Apparently the allocation of 331s is being reviewed to potentially work on this route.
Class 331: 1.3ms
Class 313: 0.67ms
Class 315: 0.75ms
Class 321/322: 0.55ms
Class 334: 0.62ms
Class 375: 0.62ms
Class 376: 0.66ms
Class 380: 0.9/1.0ms
Class 395: 0.74ms
Class 397: 0.92ms
Class 455: 0.58ms
Class 465: 0.98ms
Why I was surprised to hear they would not be operating on the Liverpool to Crewe stoppers with its 29 stops given their could be some substantial savings/padding from improved acceleration the 331s offer. Apparently the allocation of 331s is being reviewed to potentially work on this route.
A staff member told me they may appear on the Chat Moss from December.
There are always instances of the booked traction being substituted due to availability. I know that there are 331 diagrams being replaced by 321’s or 333’s in the east with great regularity. I jump for joy when I get to work a 321 instead of the booked 331. Just because it isn’t always reported on this forum doesn’t mean it isn’t happening.
Yes I realise that, in fact it was the point I was trying to make. M5000s are designed to accelerate very rapidly to 50MPH.
The 331 I was on earlier felt very much like an M5000 full power standing start.
YorkshireBear
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Fortunately they are waiting for the design before starting main construction. Always better to wait.
Grannyjoans
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That's the thing with 331's. They are great for Drivers, but maybe not for Guards due to the door controls.
Finally about time we had a "Drivers train" on Northern, something a lot of the older fleet certainly isn't.
Grannyjoans
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When I was at work last week on Saturday practically my entire diagram was booked for a 331 and ended up stuck with a 319 instead! (FFS)
Some Blackpool to Liverpool and back job can't remember the exact time.
I only passed one 331 so assume there was at least another 319 substitution!
superkev
Established Member
Re urgently required Leeds platform zero for 6 car 331s.
Network rail seems a bit like the NHS. Always waiting for something.
For interest the York Scarborough railway was built in 1 year 3 days.
K
Was it built whilst trains were running up and down on it?
Risk of the brake efficiency not applying the required force, which could increase the probability of overshooting something.
Bertie the bus
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I saw two of the three Blackpool - Liverpool diagrams today and both were 156s. I would have seen the third as well but it was delayed by a points failure so I don't know what was on that.
I think I would be inclined to be careful what you call the 'third' Blackpool diagram, since only one diagram stays on Blackpools all day - that's one of the ones currently being covered by a 156 (but should be a 331). The other 156 is covering a duty which is diagrammed for a 319, which, among other things, does 1036/1337/1636 Blackpools. That should still leave two 331s operating - one doing 0936/1237/1537/1835/2215 Blackpools - which is presumably the one delayed by a points failure - and one doing 1302 Warrington, 1515 & 1713 Wigans, and 1936 Blackpool.
It was the 1103 ex-Blackpool North which was delayed, it lost time steadily after Leyland, but no other services seemed to do at that point. One or two trains seemed to suffer a delay in the Edge Hill area, so that is perhaps where the problem was and there was a policy of keeping trains a safe distance away if possible. Arrival at Lime Street 1256 (37L), departure 1302 (25L), terminated at Preston, started there on return. Used platform 3C at Preston - first time for a 331? Well, maybe.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
195s are DMUs and so surely don't have dynamic brakes which require an electric motor?
Have caught a couple of these on the late evening Liverpool - Blackpool North services when connecting at Wigan from a Euston service. This evening a member of staff came through the carriages to warn us that the driver would be giving it full acceleration power when departing Euxton Balshaw Lane and warning us to be seated. We headed off at a normal speed and the member of staff came through again to apologise as apparently the driver had a yellow signal, so couldn't do it. Instead they planned to do it on departure from Leyland if the signals allowed.
I got off at Leyland and the few passengers who alighted at Leyland stuck around to see the train depart after the big build up. Have to say, it shot off like a rocket and I'm not surprised the acceleration is so out of kilter with regular units. Only disappointment was not being on it, as I'm sure it made for fun departure. Nice looking trains on the inside too and quite a step up on the 319s I am now used to commuting on.
YorkshireBear
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Drivers on airedale line clearly still getting used to them. Braking was very safe and also in sharp bursts and at one station we set off in the wrong direction for a metre...
Had a few little trips on the 331s the last couple of days. The acceleration is amazing, made the 323 I changed onto seem pretty slow!
A lot of grinding and banging seems to come off the bogies and the rough ride seems the only downside.
Was on 331001 from Wigan to Preston, it lost 10 mins south of Wigan due to a fault but shaved 2 mins back by Euxton, another minute by Leyland and a couple more by Preston.
Also had another on a Warrington stopper but that seemed to be driven much more cautiously and lost time here and there.
A lot of grinding and banging seems to come off the bogies and the rough ride seems the only downside.
Was on 331001 from Wigan to Preston, it lost 10 mins south of Wigan due to a fault but shaved 2 mins back by Euxton, another minute by Leyland and a couple more by Preston.
Also had another on a Warrington stopper but that seemed to be driven much more cautiously and lost time here and there.
Yes they have air suspension but the airbags are very small, the ride is certainly not smooth. After being on a 195/331 then getting on a 158 the difference is huge.
The acceleration alone is why I was astonished the 331s would not be used on the Liverpool to Crewe stoppers given that has 29 stops - the most of any Northern route and which would benefit from a quick accelerating unit. That appears to have changed now with Northern reviewing this and potentially using them on that route afterall.
I know it's not from a standing start but it's pretty nippy in this video below.
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It's a shame as internally I really like them, and much more than cl.321s, but they're like a BMW I had once with runflat tyres. Changed them to normal tyres and it was much improved. I wonder if they'll bother to come up with a fix?
Karl
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