Northern guard interview

[mezdup]

Hi Albert ,

The closing date was 18th Feb and i got an email 3rd March asking me to attend an interview on 8th March. No telephone interview . I now have assessments tomorrow . All pretty quick and efficient really unlike some other TOC's I've seen mentioned on this forum.

Herdster

Are you going to join the ELITE?

 

[herdster]

Not if you're there
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Well I passed the assessments and now have a medical on Weds. This may seem like silly question but is there a dress code for the medical ( apart from undressing) , I was going to go in a suit but not sure if that's necessary.

 

[Mojo]

Assuming it's just a medical and it's carried out off-site then wear whatever you want.

 

[royaloak]

I totally disagree with your statement there royaloak, you make it sound like drivers are somehow superior and one should have to work one's way UP to becoming a driver. The crux of the issue is that drivers, guards, and any other employee for that matter, require different skills and personalities. The skillset of a driver is not superior to that of anyone else in the team, just different.

You couldnt be further off the mark on that one matey, I work with some drivers who have their up-coming sickness marked in their diary, this is the sort of things companies want to avoid.

I am not "superior" to anyone, but I am lucky to get the chance to drive trains.

I talk to most people at work as anybody that knows me will confirm, during an incident at Guildford I left the safety of the mess-room to go and assist a member of platform staff left with about 300 angry people and no information, did I have to, no, did I feel it was my duty as a rail-worker, yes. At the time I had not been there long and apart from saying "good morning" etc didn't know her from Adam (or Eve ), if you get the impression that I think I am "superior" to anybody else then fine its your choice but you are sooooo far off the mark it is almost laughable.

As for your different skills and personalities, yes up to a point you are correct but if a person has a flexible personality (as apposed to multiple ones ) they will be able to do ALL jobs although they MAY prefer one job over another.

 

[Metroland]

Traditionally drivers were 'superior' to guards, cleaners, passed fireman, porters and so on.

All grades used to work like that, and there used to be a strict hierarchy. Drivers would start as cleaners, and there used to be 'links' of drivers as well. You would be well into your 50s driving top link expresses.

Preserved railways still operate like this.

The idea was really to select the best of the best going through the different grades, in practice people were promoted on seniority IE how long they had been in a job, a lot of the time.

All this has tended to go by the wayside after privatisation, and drivers were recruited 'from the street' - which led to their nickname 'boil in the bag drivers' and they could be driving trains in little more than a year.

A lot of TOCs still prefer people to start off as guards because they can assess whether they are a team player, can handle pressure and responsibility, are reliable, and so on.

There are still grades in other jobs such as signallers, Pway and S&T. This all reflects the way people work up and learn on the job as they go, and gain enough experience to take on greater responsibility.

The railway has always, and continues to keep a record of everyone's discipline (IE breaking rules - say for example during an engineering possession or single line working - and being involved in incidents such as SPADs) and 'black marks' in terms of sickness, timekeeping, attitudes, exam results (exams are taken in many grades every few months/years or on application to a new job) and so on. Most people never, ever see their records. The records are sent to new managers on applications for promotion to a 'higher grade'.

If a guard has a poor record he is unlikely to be promoted to a driver. Your reputation and chances of promotion are made/broken on the job. There are many cases of people never being promoted because they are considered not up to the higher grade - this is assuming you can get on the railway in the first place. Often 3-400 people for each railway job these days.

Normally staff in high grade signalling posts, S&T, Pway, and the more selective TOCs like Eurostar and Virgin take many years to get there and you can be demoted as well in some grades.

 

[anonymous0101]

I totally disagree with your statement there royaloak, you make it sound like drivers are somehow superior and one should have to work one's way UP to becoming a driver. The crux of the issue is that drivers, guards, and any other employee for that matter, require different skills and personalities. The skillset of a driver is not superior to that of anyone else in the team, just different.

In years gone past thats exactly what you did. You worked your way up through the grades from a cleaner to hopefully a driver.

313103 - If guards are regarded as being lower than trainee drivers then that's wrong, as a pilot I certainly don't look down my nose at cabin crew, or indeed baggage handlers, we are all equal and each have an important role to play in keeping the show on the road. I'm a pilot because I have the aptitude to do that particular job, whereas I wouldn't have a clue how to be good at being a cabin crew member.

Trains that require a driver and a guard can be operated using two drivers if no guards are available. This is because drivers are usually trained in guards safety critical duties whereas of course a guard cannot take the place of a driver. I've heard that BA are using pilots as cabin crew - i am sure it is relatively easy to train pilots to be cabin crew but obviously not vice versa.

On a drivers course i know of, 8 out of 10 trainees had previous railway experience of some sort and 2 are ex-guards. I think TOC's prefer people with previous railway experience and a proven work record, though not necessarily internals.

 

[E&W Lucas]

Trains that require a driver and a guard can be operated using two drivers if no guards are available. This is because drivers are usually trained in guards safety critical duties whereas of course a guard cannot take the place of a driver. I've heard that BA are using pilots as cabin crew - i am sure it is relatively easy to train pilots to be cabin crew but obviously not vice versa.

On a drivers course i know of, 8 out of 10 trainees had previous railway experience of some sort and 2 are ex-guards. I think TOC's prefer people with previous railway experience and a proven work record, though not necessarily internals.

Drivers working as guards - not that I know of! That's asking for industrial action! Where I work, we are not trained, simple as that.

TOC's certainly look for a proven work record, but as to if it is on the railway, that seems to vary. On my driver training course, only 2/ 10 had worked on the railway. Of the trainee drivers that I had with me at that operator, only 1/ 5 was an internal candidate. I am aware of one TOC that advertised internally for some trainees last year, and did not fill the vacs. Most of the guards that applied were not even interviewed.

They are certainly getting picky. With regard to the FCC recruitment, I've heard of people passing the assessment, but failing the interview.

 

[CarterUSM]

Drivers do work as guards on DOO services. Indeed they are both driver and guard. No extra money for that anymore though. Driver managers at my depot did recently cover our duties whilst we were on strike, but that's another story. Though they did have to be assessed on traction and route knowledge.

 

[Flyboy]

I've heard that BA are using pilots as cabin crew - i am sure it is relatively easy to train pilots to be cabin crew but obviously not vice versa.

You are indeed correct, some pilots have chosen to work as cabin crew temporarily to avoid being made redundant, however, although you can certainly train a pilot to work in the cabin it doesn't automatically follow that he/she will be any good at it!

In years gone past thats exactly what you did. You worked your way up through the grades from a cleaner to hopefully a driver.

Times obviously change, and although it is totally right to allow those who possess the right skills to transfer from one post to another in the railway industry, there should be equal measure given to those outside the industry that also possess the right skills.

I am aware of one TOC that advertised internally for some trainees last year, and did not fill the vacs. Most of the guards that applied were not even interviewed.

A pathetic waste of everyone's time and money then! :roll:

 

[lauraGeeGee]

Drivers working as guards - not that I know of! That's asking for industrial action! Where I work, we are not trained, simple as that.

We mostly operate as DOO. On the metro route we use 315's. However, there are two trips morning and evening peak where we use a 321. (I think it's a stock issue from a few years ago). Due to the poor sighting from the cab of a 321 at platforms without monitors, we have to have another driver to operate the doors from a middle cab as a "Train(wo)man" (Yes, that's actually how it's written on the diagram, not me being picky). We also use selective door operating on one trip on the Southminster route in the morning peak. An additional driver is used for that too. Sometimes the "guard" is a depot driver who doesn't yet sign the route but signs the traction and is also fully competent in the rule book.

It's interesting as my depot drivers licence used to say, additional competencies - "Guards". Though we weren't guards as such with whistles and red and green flags!

We did have to be trained, assessed and passed as competent to do the "train(wo)man" duties.

What I'm really getting at, I'm surprised the company uses an additional driver rather than a guard.

 

[herdster]

Well , what a kick in the bollocks. I passed the interview , assessments and medical but my application is now on hold due to there not being enough course places ( training starts 12th April ). There is something not quite right here because all medicals were last week so i don't know how people offered the job could give enough notice at work to start next week. My theory is all positions went to internal applicants . They say there will be more courses later in the year but couldn't tell me when , this is no good to me as I'm currently unemployed with a family to support , I am gutted , why send me for the bloody medical if they weren't going to offer a job. . Sorry ,rant over i now know how many people feel trying to get into this industry.

 

[Flyboy]

It sounds like someone from the world of aviation HR has infiltrated Northern Rail HQ - very poor show.

Sorry to hear about your situation herdster, you should utilise the fact that you passed the entire selection process to your advantage and take this info to a less shabby TOC.

 

[navydavy1968]

Sorry to hear about your situation herdster, you should utilise the fact that you passed the entire selection process to your advantage and take this info to a less shabby TOC.

Hear Hear!! Hard luck mate. But you got this far and that should be enough for the next TOC that require guards!

 

[new driver]

I seriously doubt that the jobs did go internally, speaking from experience of Northern they say they require people and can change their minds more than any company I have known.

I used to be a guard at both middlesborogh and wigan wallgate. Its very rare that promotions happen from within for any job with Northern, unless you know the right people and regularly go for a drink with them.

Northern will be on a money-saving kick that is all it will be.

 

[herdster]

I spoke to someone in HR and she confirmed there is a course starting 12th April 2010 , if that is the case and medicals were only completed on the 3rd April and then a bank holiday how could anyone already with a job give enough notice at work , it doesn't make sense, they must have gone internally.

 

[CarterUSM]

Herdster, do not trouble yourself as to why, pick yourself up and shooty in for the next time! I hope it is sooner, rather than later for you.

 

[Albert]

Hello Herdster, sorry to here about your set back mate. I was hoping to have heard something by 6th April as per previous post, but up to now nothing. Keep battling on Herdster you will get there in the end.

 

[new driver]

herdster not being funny mate but not everyone is in work and many will jump at the chance to start short notice. Others that are working would probably take quite joy in telling their bosses to sod off.

I speak as an ex-insider herdster and know how many people within the company have been put on hold for either drivers jobs or guards jobs, only for time to pass and the results from testing not to be valid anymore.

Are you saying they have offered you the job but can not take it due to not having enough time to hand in notice. If so they will ring the next person on the list, and keep going until they find people that dont need to give notice.

Do you know how many driver trainees have been on hold now with say scotrail, who did a massive campaign to get a waiting list sorted out. This was in 2008 and people are still waiting and hoping.

I wish you luck and keep ringing them herdster, once a month is good from my experience. Unfortunately if you want a job on the railway then you do have to fight for it.

 

[herdster]

You are right carter I will put it behind me and keep looking , although I am going to phone them on Monday tp try and pin down a date for the next course.
New Driver , thanks for the advice and comments.I was not offered a job and i am not working at the minute. My point was they must have known who they were going to employ before giving us the medical so why go to that expense instead of offering the position subject to medical and references ,that's what most companies do. Anyway onwards and upwards I've hopefully got an assessment day with Merseyrail in the next couple of weeks.

 

[new driver]

The main reason is herdster they like people ready at short notice. Like any business one week no people will resign or retire. The next week they may have ten retire/resign. Its cheaper for them to have people on standby, rather than get people in just in case of a larger than normal retirement/resignation whereby they would have to pay wages out for people sat around.
Resignation period with northern west side is 3 months it takes about the same time to train a person as a guard. For the company a perfect situation.

Unfortunately not for you though.
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Good luck with the asses day with merseyrail, you have done it once you can do it again. From what I have seen of merseyrail guards/drivers at southport they are pretty relaxed, and seem to enjoy the job.

 

[Bellwater]

If it all goes wrong, there's a booking office vacancy in the Liverpool Area:

http://www.northern.engageats.co.uk...jhnyWC4IHm//6XbsLd4FMgWWWAMaBzbuj30k8p6aCPKDe

 

[herdster]

Good news , I have been offered a position as guard with Merseyrail , so no need to hang aroumd for Northern . I have to say i am really looking forward to starting on Monday and thanks to everyone on the forum who has helped and given advice . I now feel as i am getting back on track ( no pun intended) after a couple of recent setbacks.

Herdster

 

[CarterUSM]

Good news , I have been offered a position as guard with Merseyrail , so no need to hang aroumd for Northern . I have to say i am really looking forward to starting on Monday and thanks to everyone on the forum who has helped and given advice . I now feel as i am getting back on track ( no pun intended) after a couple of recent setbacks.

Herdster

That is great news and good to hear, well done!