Northern Pacer Withdrawals - Info?

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Sbahn4

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Given that out of service rolling stock is often targeted by kids with spray cans. Have the units at Gascoigne Wood avoided being a target for them?
 
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AMD

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Because they were totally acceptable units back then, apparantly they aren’t now
Money and Politics.
It's reasonably well known that during the writing of the current franchise civil servants deemed new trains as not financially viable on a BCR (Benefit Cost Ratio) basis, however the public and organisations bent the ear of politicians and the government agreed that the pacers had to go.
And I would agree, they are now 35 years old and are no longer fit for purpose in the 21st century - and I work on them.
 

sprinterguy

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I wonder why neither northern spirit/ATN and North western/FNW didn't propose scrapping these years ago
There were rumours that Northern Spirit might have been looking at the Turbostar Traveller concept (Essentially a forerunner of the 172, with lightweight bogies and gearing for faster acceleration than a 170) that Bombardier and I think Porterbrook were touting shortly after the turn of the millennium. Never got beyond the rumours stage, though.
 

LOL The Irony

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There were rumours that Northern Spirit might have been looking at the Turbostar Traveller concept (Essentially a forerunner of the 172, with lightweight bogies and gearing for faster acceleration than a 170) that Bombardier and I think Porterbrook were touting shortly after the turn of the millennium. Never got beyond the rumours stage, though.
So 172's then?
 

lyndhurst25

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https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2020/0...ions-in-the-running-to-get-a-pacer-train.html

Airedale Hospital, in Keighley, has been announced as one of the 17 organisations in the running for a Pacer as the Government-run Transform a Pacer competition comes to a close.

The winners will be chosen based on the benefits they can bring to the wider community.

The competition is part of the long-awaited withdrawal of Pacer trains after over thirty years of service.

The winners will be decided following the judging panel:

  • Pete Waterman
  • Tim Dunn
  • Mary Grant
  • Jools Townsend
The entrants in the running for a Pacer are:

  • Airedale NHS Foundation Trust, Keighley – Convert the carriage into a mixed-use, non-clinical space to improve the patient experience.
  • Appleby Heritage Centre – Convert the Pacer into a Holiday let space.
  • Baines Endowed Primary School, Fleetwood – Pacer converted into outdoor learning space.
  • Castleford Heritage Trust – turn a Pacer into an entrepreneur hub
  • Fagley Primary School, Bradford – Turn the Pacer into a science lab to promote STEM learning.
  • Kirk Merrington Primary School, Spennymoor – Use the Pacer as a library.
  • Medomsley Community Group – Make the carriage into a community centre for visitor information
  • Neston Community Centre – Turn the carriage into a cafe on a walking route
  • Pinders Primary J&I School, Wakefield – Set up an alternative learning and open it up to evening adult learning classes.
  • Platform 1 (Mental Health Charity), Huddersfield – Turn the pacer into a kitchen to teach cooking skills.
  • Private Individual, Annan – Continue using the Pacers but updating to ensure they meet regulations
  • Rainford Heritage Society, St Helens – Convert a Pacer into a heritage centre
  • South Tyneside Council – Use the Pacer as a Youth Club
  • St Anne’s Catholic Primary School, Liverpool – Convert into a library
  • Two Rivers Radio, York – Convert the Pacer into a broadcast studio
  • Wingfield Academy School, Rotherham – Use the pacer for additional learning for students with additional needs.
  • Yorkshire Wildlife Trust – Convert into community engagement space
What did the officials say?
Transport Secretary Grant Shapps said:

“The winners of this competition will give a handful of Pacers a future serving local communities in a new and exciting way.”

“The Pacers have served communities in the North for three decades. But in that time they have divided opinions and they have become a symbol of underinvestment in the North.

“As we level up the economy in the North we are we are phasing Pacers out completely, with the last trains off the network this year. Their modern replacements will improve journeys and create space for 40,000 more passengers.”

Porterbrook CEO, Mary Grant, said:

“The judging team and I have been really impressed by the quantity and quality of submissions from community groups looking to repurpose these Pacer vehicles.

“It is absolutely fitting that they will soon have a new role in the communities they once served and Porterbrook looks forward to working with the competition winners to turn their visions into reality.”
 

ed1971

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Because they were totally acceptable units back then, apparantly they aren’t now

Yet Metrolink trams with limited seats, no toilets and severe bogie hunting are apparently acceptable on several former heavy rail routes in Greater Manchester.
Other parts of Europe have or have had railbuses, but there doesn't seem to be many complaints about them. There are these in service in Hungary, Czech Republic and Slovakia: http://www.nic.funet.fi/index/pics/railways/Hungary/diesel/index.html
 

ed1971

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I think EMU classes dont have the same fan base as DMU classes.
But I suppose that depends on where you live.
Saying that,when I was a lot younger,not many people admitted liking DMU's the same way as locomotives.
Even back then they were referred to as bog units or coaches with bus engines lol.

EMU's have a character of their own,and if you lived in a non electrified area of the network,going some place to spot them had some enthusiasts intrigued.
I quite like most EMU's tbh but I do like the PEP's especially.
On DMU's though I preferred the old first gen sets especially the Swindons.
Pacers were new to me in 1989 when I moved to Liverpool and I have always thought they have that bit of character which seemed to outweigh most modern class DMU's.
I am glad I have taken many photos of them now as well.
I will miss both Pacers and the PEP's when they go. Both have served well,and that cannot be argued!
As I am in to most things 1980s,here goes another part of my favourite era consigned to history!
Times do,and must change though and move on evolving for the better.
And as sad as we lose what we love,we also must look forward to what's on offer.
Whether it's for better or worse,time will tell.

There doesn't seem to be much enthusiasm for preserving EMUs. Classes 304, 305 and 504 have not done well. Maybe one of the main reasons is that preserved railways cannot run them under their own power unlike DMUs?
 

trainmania100

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I've just been sent the below...

Ladies & Gents

I can confirm the following

142001 NRM
142003 Perverse Owner withheld at present
142017 East Kent Railway
142019 Waverley Route Heritage Association
142020 Waverley Route Heritage Association
142027 Chasewater Railway
142029 Chasewater Railway
142030 Chasewater Railway
142033 South Wales Police (Training Aid)
142084 Rushden Historical Transport Society
142091 Rushden Historical Transport Society

Not sure if any of it is true...I thought 036 was for EKR..? Should I disregard the above?
 

IamTrainsYT

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I've just been sent the below...

Ladies & Gents

I can confirm the following

142001 NRM
142003 Perverse Owner withheld at present
142017 East Kent Railway
142019 Waverley Route Heritage Association
142020 Waverley Route Heritage Association
142027 Chasewater Railway
142029 Chasewater Railway
142030 Chasewater Railway
142033 South Wales Police (Training Aid)
142084 Rushden Historical Transport Society
142091 Rushden Historical Transport Society

Not sure if any of it is true...I thought 036 was for EKR..? Should I disregard the above?
I’m sure it was for the EKR
 

Sbahn4

Member
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Messages
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I've just been sent the below...

Ladies & Gents

I can confirm the following

142001 NRM
142003 Perverse Owner withheld at present
142017 East Kent Railway
142019 Waverley Route Heritage Association
142020 Waverley Route Heritage Association
142027 Chasewater Railway
142029 Chasewater Railway
142030 Chasewater Railway
142033 South Wales Police (Training Aid)
142084 Rushden Historical Transport Society
142091 Rushden Historical Transport Society

Not sure if any of it is true...I thought 036 was for EKR..? Should I disregard the above?


How do they know the owner of 142003 is a pervert?
 

ed1971

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There is an interior video of a Czech Republic Class 810 railbus here:

They are older than Classes 142-4 and are still giving good service.
Details here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ČD_Class_810

They also appear to have some more modern railbuses, the 814 and 914 classes shown in this video:

Germany and France once had railbuses too, so they are by no means unique to the UK. The Pacers probably stopped some lines closing and only for them some passengers would be now travelling on a road-bus rather than a rail-bus.
 

73001

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Liverpool
There is an interior video of a Czech Republic Class 810 railbus here:

They are older than Classes 142-4 and are still giving good service.
Details here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ČD_Class_810

They also appear to have some more modern railbuses, the 814 and 914 classes shown in this video:

Germany and France once had railbuses too, so they are by no means unique to the UK. The Pacers probably stopped some lines closing and only for them some passengers would be now travelling on a road-bus rather than a rail-bus.

Wow, their railbuses look more like buses than ours do. Can't be much crash protection in that acre of glass across the front.
 

NorthernSpirit

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I've just been sent the below...

Ladies & Gents

I can confirm the following

142001 NRM
142003 Perverse Owner withheld at present
142017 East Kent Railway
142019 Waverley Route Heritage Association
142020 Waverley Route Heritage Association
142027 Chasewater Railway
142029 Chasewater Railway
142030 Chasewater Railway
142033 South Wales Police (Training Aid)
142084 Rushden Historical Transport Society
142091 Rushden Historical Transport Society

Not sure if any of it is true...I thought 036 was for EKR..? Should I disregard the above?

It appears that my guess of Chasewater getting a third unit was right (according to this list), the third unit will almost certainly be used for spares incase something conks on either 029 or 030.

Could East Kent Railway be opting for a second or spares unit and that unit being 142017? As far as I'm aware EKR are after 142036 still unless anything changed.
 

NorthernSpirit

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In reply to two of the posts earlier on in this thread about the "romanticising of Pacers", personally I think its down to their uniqueness and their character. The best example I can think of is - if a woman wants a man with character, then she should opt for a man that is a human version of a Pacer.

Anyway, lets get back on topic with the lastest updates, including the units that are earmarked for preservation.

Red - withdrawn.
Orange - scrapped / sent to be scrapped
Yellow - converted to other use (does not include food tins or razor blades).
Green - modified for Passengers of Reduced Mobility.
Blue - in storage.
Purple - preserved.
Pink - can operate provided that they are coupled to a PRM compliant unit.
Black - class 142 units that are still in service, subject to change in the coming months.


Class 142
001 - Unit preserved. Due to move to the National Railway Museum in York.
002 -
003 - in storage at Gascoigne Wood. Unit set to be preserved by a private owner?
004 - must be used with PRM Compliant unit.
005 - First to be withdrawn, now scrapped (updated as of 7th December 2019)
006 -
007 - was in storage at Barrow, moved to Heaton TMD and now at Gascoigne Wood.
008 - Scrapped (Collided with a class 87 at Winsford in 1999).
009 - in storage at Gascoigne Wood
010 -
011 - must be used with PRM Compliant unit.
012 - at Landore TMD? being stripped of spare parts.
013 - in warm storage at Heaton TMD, must be used with PRM Compliant unit.
014 - was in warm storage at Heaton TMD, now at Gascoigne Wood.
015 - Scrapped, Newport Docks.
016 - Scrapped, EMR Kingsbury
017 - in storage at Worksop, Unit to be preserved at East Kent Railway?
018 - in warm store at Heaton TMD, must be used with PRM Compliant unit.
019 - in storage at Worksop, unit to be preserved by the Waverley Route Heritage Association
020 - in storage at Worksop, unit to be preserved by the Waverley Route Heritage Association
021 - Scrapped, Newport Docks
022
- Scrapped, EMR Kingsbury
023 - must be used with PRM Compliant unit.
024 - was at Allerton, now at Newton Heath TMD.
025 - Scrapped, EMR Kingsbury
026 - Scrapped, Newport Docks
027 - in storage at Worksop, unit to be preserved by Chasewater Railway?
028 - in storage at Gascoigne Wood
029 - Unit preserved at Chasewater Railway
030 - Unit preserved at Chasewater Railway
031 - Scrapped, Newport Docks
032 - in storage at Gascoigne Wood.
033 - Converted to a Police Training Unit by South Wales Police at Bridgend rugby pitch.
034 - in storage at Gascoigne Wood
035 - must be used with PRM Compliant unit.
036 - Unit to be preserved at East Kent Railway (is this still going ahead?) - must be used with PRM Compliant unit.
037 - Scrapped, EMR Kingsbury
038 - in storage at Gascoigne Wood
039 - Scrapped, Newport Docks
040 - Scrapped, Newport Docks
041 - must be used with PRM Compliant unit.
042 - Scrapped, Newport Docks.
043 - must be used with PRM Compliant unit.
044 - Scrapped, second class 142 unit to be dismantled at CF Booths (the first being 005).
045 - must be used with PRM Compliant unit.
046 - in storage at Gascoigne Wood.
047 - must be used with PRM Compliant unit.
048 - Scrapped, EMR Kingsbury
049 - in storage at Gascoigne Wood (soon moving to Newport Docks or Landore)
050 - Scrapped, Newport Docks
051 - must be used with PRM Compliant unit.
052 - Scrapped, EMR Kingsbury
053 - Scrapped, EMR Kingsbury
054 - was in warm storage at Longsight TMD, now at Newton Heath TMD.
055 - must be used with PRM Compliant unit.
056 - in storage at Gascoigne Wood.
057 - Scrapped, Newport Docks
058 - must be used with PRM Compliant unit.
059 - Scrapped (Collided with buffer stops at Liverpool Lime Street in 1991.)
060 - in storage at Gascoigne Wood.
061 - must be used with PRM Compliant unit.
062 - was in warm storage at Longsight TMD, now at Newton Heath TMD.
063 - Scrapped, Newport Docks.
064 - Scrapped, EMR Kingsbury
065 - in warm storage at Heaton TMD, must be used with PRM Compliant unit.
066 - Scrapped, Newport Docks.
067 - Scrapped, Newport Docks.
068 - in warm storage at Heaton TMD, must be used with PRM Compliant unit.
069 -
070 - in warm storage at Heaton TMD, must be used with PRM Compliant unit.
071 - in warm storage at Heaton TMD, must be used with PRM Compliant unit.
072 -
073 - ?
074 -
075 -
076 -
077 -
078 - must be used with PRM Compliant unit.
079 - at Landore TMD? being stripped of spare parts.
080 -
081 -
082 -
083 -
084 - in storage at Worksop, unit set to be preserved by Rushden Historical Transport Society.
085 -
086 - at Canton, stripped of spare parts.
087 - in warm storage at Heaton TMD, must be used with PRM Compliant unit.
088 - Scrapped, EMR Kingsbury.
089 - was in warm storage at Newton Heath TMD, moved to Heaton TMD and now at Gascoigne Wood.
090 - must be used with PRM Compliant unit.
091 - in storage at Worksop, unit set to be preserved by Rushden Historical Transport Society.
092 - Scrapped, Newport Docks.
093 - Scrapped, EMR Kingsbury.
094 - in warm storage at Heaton TMD, must be used with PRM Compliant unit.
095 - in warm storage at Heaton TMD, must be used with PRM Compliant unit.
096 - Scrapped, EMR Kingsbury. The last of the class lost for good.

Class 143
601
602
603 - set to be preserved at the Swindon and Cricklade Railway
604
605
606
607
608
609
610
611
612
613 - Scrapped (Unit caught fire near Nailsea & Backwell in 2004).
614
615 - Scrapped (Unit caught fire in 2005).
616
617
618
619
620
621
622
623
624
625

Class 144 - All units stabled at Neville Hill TMD, can run on specified routes and can run solo.
001 - "Penistone Line Partnership"
002
003 - set to be preserved at the Great Central Railway at Ruddington.
004
005
006
007
008
009
010
011
012 - 144 Evolution has full PRM modifications. (Possibly the last ever Pacer in service?)
013
014
015
016
017
018
019
020
021
022
023


This list is not operator specific, but it does cover all Pacers that are in the firing line.

---
#leylandslastlap[/QUOTE]
 

IamTrainsYT

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Here is a photo showing ex northern 142086 at Cardiff canton, I’m not certain but it looks like it’s on the departure roads and still in one piece. Anyone know what it would be doing there? TFW said on there twitter they weren’t using them
 

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theblackwatch

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Here is a photo showing ex northern 142086 at Cardiff canton, I’m not certain but it looks like it’s on the departure roads and still in one piece. Anyone know what it would be doing there? TFW said on there twitter they weren’t using them

142086 does not have a derogation to operate in service.
 

Chris217

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Messages
609
142086 does not have a derogation to operate in service.

Couldnt TfW apply for derrogation to cover for stock shortages though if they managed to source other retired units or if some of their own units become unserviceable and use these as replacements.
Either way,TfW are short of stock and seem to want to alleviate this ongoing
problem.
It would be common sense to do so.
Here we go again!
Its beggars belief that perfectly workable trains are being sent for scrap whilst operators are still struggling with shortages because of new rules regarding PRM and the continuous non delivery of replacement stock. It's a farce!
As long as it's safe to re-use
Just give the passengers their trains for Pete's sake.
No wonder the railways are in a sorry state.
 

krus_aragon

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Location
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Couldnt TfW apply for derrogation to cover for stock shortages though if they managed to source other retired units or if some of their own units become unserviceable and use these as replacements.
The reason that unit is in South Wales is to be a donor of spare parts to keep the rest of the fleet in service. (I'm sure the innovative lot at Canton could go as far as doing a "trigger's broom" job between two units if needed, to keep a set going!)
 

Cross Man

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12 Sep 2018
Messages
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A man like a pacer!!! Is constantly throwing you around, squealing and dribbling all over you when it rains. Yeah right
 

superkev

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west yorkshire
I've just been sent the below...

Ladies & Gents

I can confirm the following

142001 NRM
142003 Perverse Owner withheld at present
142017 East Kent Railway
142019 Waverley Route Heritage Association
142020 Waverley Route Heritage Association
142027 Chasewater Railway
142029 Chasewater Railway
142030 Chasewater Railway
142033 South Wales Police (Training Aid)
142084 Rushden Historical Transport Society
142091 Rushden Historical Transport Society

Not sure if any of it is true...I thought 036 was for EKR..? Should I disregard the above?
Looks like all on the above preserved 142 list are all the ones parked at Worksop.
K
 
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