Northern proposed Retford terminators to be extended to Gainsborough Central

[sheff'd victoria]

Some news just in which is great for the people of Gainsborough and the Brigg Line.

We understand that from the May 2018 timetable, the Northern Rail stopping service from Sheffield Midland to Retford Low Level will be extended to Gainsborough Central.

This means the station will receive an hourly service (roughly between 7am - 7pm) 6 days a week

This will be the first time the station has received a weekday service since the 1st October 1993 and an hourly service to Sheffield of some description since April 1965.

There are a few out there that would like to see the back of the Brigg Line as its an inconvenience from the bubble investment areas of Leeds and Manchester, sadly this is a nail in their coffin as a 6 day a week service from GNB means the Brigg Line has a brighter future even if the Cleethorpes services sadly still runs 1 day a week but with record passenger increases.

The foot is now in the door and with East Midlands councils support for extending the EMT Nottingham - Worksop service via Brigg to Cleethorpes on a 2hrly service we may at last be able to provide the people that have had nothing with something.

 

[eastwestdivide]

I take it that's in conjunction with the launch of the "fast" Lincoln services, making two trains an hour from Sheffield to Worksop and now Retford/Gainsborough?

 

[70014IronDuke]

Some news just in which is great for the people of Gainsborough and the Brigg Line.

We understand that from the May 2018 timetable, the Northern Rail stopping service from Sheffield Midland to Retford Low Level will be extended to Gainsborough Central.

This means the station will receive an hourly service (roughly between 7am - 7pm) 6 days a week

This will be the first time the station has received a weekday service since the 1st October 1993 and an hourly service to Sheffield of some description since April 1965.

Excellent news for the good folk of Gainsborough, and the Brigg line in general. My only thought (and I'm sure it has to be possible) is: can a train be terminated and turned at Cental? (I can't remember seeing any crossings there when visiting about 10 years ago.)

There are a few out there that would like to see the back of the Brigg Line as its an inconvenience from the bubble investment areas of Leeds and Manchester, ...

Sorry, could you explain?

... sadly this is a nail in their coffin

sounds a bit draconian

... as a 6 day a week service from GNB means the Brigg Line has a brighter future even if the Cleethorpes services sadly still runs 1 day a week but with record passenger increases.

The foot is now in the door and with East Midlands councils support for extending the EMT Nottingham - Worksop service via Brigg to Cleethorpes on a 2hrly service we may at last be able to provide the people that have had nothing with something.

How 'firm' is this councils' (or council's) support, please?

 

[eastwestdivide]

... My only thought (and I'm sure it has to be possible) is: can a train be terminated and turned at Cental? (I can't remember seeing any crossings there when visiting about 10 years ago.)
...

Google maps aerial view appears to show a trailing crossover just south of Gainsborough Central station.


The suggestion of extending the stopping train is also mentioned in a column in the local paper, dated 6 July, at:
http://www.gainsboroughstandard.co....r-rail-services-are-urgently-needed-1-8634194

Northern also intend to introduce an hourly Sheffield to Retford service with trains standing idle at Retford for 40 minutes.
We have suggested that the trains could serve Gainsborough Central as well as a train not moving is not earning its keep.
Extending this service will generate extra revenue for Northern and finally give Central station a regular hourly service.

("we" in the 2nd sentence referring to the Community Rail Partnership)

The SO Brigg service is timed at 15 mins between Retford and Gainsborough C.

 

[bluenoxid]

Could use language like naysayers rather than putting nails into coffins.

Regardless this is good news for connectivity

 

[Old Yard Dog]

The foot is now in the door and with East Midlands councils support for extending the EMT Nottingham - Worksop service via Brigg to Cleethorpes on a 2hrly service we may at last be able to provide the people that have had nothing with something.

It would surely make more sense to extend the Nottingham - Worksop service to Sheffield rather than Cleethorpes.

 

[woodhouse122]

great news

 

[70014IronDuke]

Just to clarify - this means that Gainsborough will be getting two trains per hour to Sheffield?

ie one semi-fast from Lea Rd, and one stopper from Central?

Presumably tickets to Gainsborough will be valid at both stations?

 

[Muzer]

Just to clarify - this means that Gainsborough will be getting two trains per hour to Sheffield?

ie one semi-fast from Lea Rd, and one stopper from Central?

Presumably tickets to Gainsborough will be valid at both stations?

Yes, Sheffield-Gainsborough Central tickets are issued simply to "Gainsborough" which is presumably valid at both stations.

 

[Grimsby town]

Great news! Hopefully if this happens then the station will get the care it needs with better maintenance and hopefully development around the station. Hopefully this can be used as a platform to provide the whole Brigg Line with a better services because the friends of the brigg line have done a great job promoting the line which has caused huge growth and means that trains on Saturday are often full and standing.

 

[53703]

It would surely make more sense to extend the Nottingham - Worksop service to Sheffield rather than Cleethorpes.

No idea if it could be done but what about extending to Doncaster using the South Yorkshire Joint Railway? Build stations for Maltby and Dinnington/Anston too because they are quite sizeable areas not served by the train

 

[Kite159]

Good news on Gainsborough Central getting a decent level of service again, maybe one day some of the services might get extended to say Barnetby (maybe one train every 2 hours, timed to connect with a TPE/EMT service for passengers to continue towards Cleethorpes)

Looking at the track map for that area, it seems to suggest a crossover to the east of the station, plus one on the west of the station.

Makes more sense then having the unit sitting in the loop east of Retford low level for ~ 35 minutes.

 

[mailbyrail]

Does it mean there would have to be a 'parliamentary' service from Whisker Hill Junc to Retford GN to retain a service on that line to avoid closure procedures?

 

[yorksrob]

Splendid news. I once had to travel to Gainsborough for a wedding and I hopped on the Saturday Central service as that was the train that fitted in with my timings. I was pleasantly surprised at how convenient for the town Central station is.

 

[tbtc]

Mixed feelings.

Central is better suited for most of Gainsborough but running them to Lea Road would be more predictable for passengers - plus give more connections for Sheffield/ Worksop/ Retford to Lincoln (given the potential to connect with existing Doncaster - Lincoln services).

There are a few out there that would like to see the back of the Brigg Line as its an inconvenience from the bubble investment areas of Leeds and Manchester, sadly this is a nail in their coffin

Tubthumping

the Brigg Line has a brighter future even if the Cleethorpes services sadly still runs 1 day a week but with record passenger increases

What are you basing these "record passenger increases" on?

Kirton Lindsey had fewer passengers in 2016 than it did in 2012 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirton_Lindsey_railway_station).

Gainsborough Central only increased from 1,334 to 1,352 during the same period. Pretty insignificant compared to nationwide increases in demand.

Brigg has seen an increase in numbers but it's still only three passengers per train.

It would surely make more sense to extend the Nottingham - Worksop service to Sheffield rather than Cleethorpes.

Yes - Mansfield to Sheffield/ Meadowhall sounds like it'd be a reasonable market to me.

Mansfield to Cleethorpes less so!

No idea if it could be done but what about extending to Doncaster using the South Yorkshire Joint Railway? Build stations for Maltby and Dinnington/Anston too because they are quite sizeable areas not served by the train

There's a reasonable population in the area but look at the buses - the demand from Dinnington/ Aston/ Maltby is generally for Sheffield/ Rotherham/ Meadowhall, rather than for Doncaster.

Makes more sense then having the unit sitting in the loop east of Retford low level for ~ 35 minutes.

That should be long enough for a PNB at Retford, rather than pressing the unit to Gainsborough and back with no scope for staff to have a break.

Not all layover time is wasted.

 

[Tomnick]

Looking at the track map for that area, it seems to suggest a crossover to the east of the station, plus one on the west of the station.

I'm not entirely sure about the signalling arrangements, but it doesn't look like either would be suitable for regular use without a bit of work. The crossover to the west of the station only has shunt signals reading across it (so no use for regular passenger trains starting back from the Up platform, and no signalled move back into the Down platform from west of the station), and the crossover to the east of the station is worked from a ground frame (so a possibility, I suppose, but would take time and some extra training). Shunting onto the single line towards Northorpe would be easier (but would require the box there open for any such moves too - not sure whether it's continuously manned during the week?).

That should be long enough for a PNB at Retford, rather than pressing the unit to Gainsborough and back with no scope for staff to have a break.

Not all layover time is wasted.

There's no suitable PNB facilities out there (and walking time back to Retford station would be excessive!), so that'd be a difficult one without providing (and maintaining, cleaning etc.) facilities.

 

[thenorthern]

Given the distance from Gainsborough Lea Road to Gainsborough town centre I would think having trains to Gainsborough Central would increase passenger numbers.

 

[1179_Clee2]

It would surely make more sense to extend the Nottingham - Worksop service to Sheffield rather than Cleethorpes.

EMT are running the Barton on Humber branch from October, at present TPE will still crew the trains until the new EMT franchise starts.
The rumour is that the new EMT franchise will crew the trains not TPE, but bidders for EMT are working out how to get crews to Cleethorpes to do the branch.

Two possible workings.
Crew work Nottingham to Worksop extended to Cleethorpes Barton branch and return to Nottingham.
Crew work Lincoln to Grimsby extended to Cleethorpes Barton branch and return to Lincoln.
At present the rumour is no crew depot at Cleethorpes, but use crews from elsewhere.

 

[Harpers Tate]

There's no suitable PNB facilities out there (and walking time back to Retford station would be excessive!), so that'd be a difficult one without providing (and maintaining, cleaning etc.) facilities.

So the train doesn't have a working toilet and washbasin then? Or seats?

 

[eastwestdivide]

Anyone found any additional info confirming this extension yet?
So far, all we've got is the OP's "We understand that...", and a guest column in the local paper saying "We have suggested that..."

 

[70014IronDuke]

Anyone found any additional info confirming this extension yet?
So far, all we've got is the OP's "We understand that...", and a guest column in the local paper saying "We have suggested that..."

Indeed. I looked yesterday and found nothing to confirm this.

As for the line onwards to Grimsby/Cleethorpes, whle Im sure some would use it from the Mansfield direction, I'd have thought an extension of one train per two hours (to the extension) of Sheffield-Gainsborough service would be the best hope realistically.

 

[northwichcat]

This has already been mentioned in the 'Northern timetable plan for May 2018' thread: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=147558

 

[berneyarms]

This has already been mentioned in the 'Northern timetable plan for May 2018' thread: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=147558

Without having to wade through 25 pages - could you give the post number?

 

[northwichcat]

Without having to wade through 25 pages - could you give the post number?

You could use the search facility e.g. searching for Retford returns posts like this one: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?p=3037715&highlight=retford#post3037715

 

[eastwestdivide]

That linked post only mentions Retford as the destination of the stopping service from Sheffield. The OP is talking about a further extension of those services to Gainsborough - that's the part I'm looking to confirm.

 

[snowball]

A search for Gainsborough in that thread finds nothing.

 

[Kite159]

Does it mean there would have to be a 'parliamentary' service from Whisker Hill Junc to Retford GN to retain a service on that line to avoid closure procedures?

That curve is already served by 'parliamentary' services

Mondays to Saturdays:
2P87 2013 / 2018 Huddersfield - Retford
2P51 0546 Sheffield - Retford
1L74 0701 Retford - Leeds
2P90 2245 Retford - Sheffield

Quite a tight curve as well, Pacers make a lovely noise going round it

 

[Tomnick]

So the train doesn't have a working toilet and washbasin then? Or seats?

Well, it does, assuming it's not blocked or out of water or something (as they sometimes are, often enough for it to be a problem). Traincrew tend to like to eat their dinner, sometimes a hot dinner, and make a flask of tea and stuff like that on their PNBs, though. It might be the only chance they get in a ten hour job, and it's already hard enough trying to keep a healthy lifestyle with mealtimes all over the place. Taking a PNB on the same roasting hot unit, not even a break from the working environment, that you're spending the rest of the ten hours on isn't adequate rest at all.

Crew work Nottingham to Worksop extended to Cleethorpes Barton branch and return to Nottingham.

No good for covering probably the first three round trips though, almost certainly the first two, by the time the crew get there on the first one. The same applies at the end of the day too. There's also the question of whether there'd be an earlier service(s) from Cleethorpes than the back working of the first one from Notts - who'd work that? By now, you're probably talking about three crews (probably Lincoln) being taxied (or travelling pass on early/late ECS) to/from Cleethorpes, the extra work for a regular 'via Brigg' service possibly tipping the balance in favour of justifying a small depot there.

Crew work Lincoln to Grimsby extended to Cleethorpes Barton branch and return to Lincoln.
At present the rumour is no crew depot at Cleethorpes, but use crews from elsewhere.

Probably more sensible, but would still involve quite a bit of taxiing and/or travelling 'pass'. Possibly the most economic option still, especially if there's no extra work being created to/from Cleethorpes overall.

 

[Ianno87]

That curve is already served by 'parliamentary' services

Mondays to Saturdays:
2P87 2013 / 2018 Huddersfield - Retford
2P51 0546 Sheffield - Retford
1L74 0701 Retford - Leeds
2P90 2245 Retford - Sheffield

Quite a tight curve as well, Pacers make a lovely noise going round it

Don't think the regular hourly Retford terminators would have used the curve anyway - the proposed timings fell right on top of ECML long distance trains calling in the Down platform.

 

[edwin_m]

Does the Retford curve need a "Parliamentary" service anyway? All it does is allow trains to access a different platform at the same station, so if they were removed I don't think it would count as a closure. The services mentioned are probably for crew route knowledge.