Northern Rail conductors vote on strike action

[pemma]

RMT are balloting Wigan based Northern Rail conductors for strike action after they claim managers were aggressive in dealing with a member who was genuinely sick. Northern Rail have reportedly sent letters to Wigan based conductors saying to ignore what the RMT is telling them about the incident, which has angered the RMT further.

 

[Starmill]

All's well and good in Northern land then eh...

 

[Nym]

Sounds like they're breaching terms in discussing an employees personal business as well there....

 

[Qwerty133]

They could always find another job if they don't like their current one
NB not seriously suggesting this

 

[JohnB57]

Sounds like they're breaching terms in discussing an employees personal business as well there....

And that sounds like trying to find blame when there isn't any.

Surely Northern are entitled to defend their position if they feel they've been misrepresented?

 

[Nym]

And that sounds like trying to find blame when there isn't any.

Surely Northern are entitled to defend their position if they feel they've been misrepresented?

One should remember though that an employer is not entitled in any way to discuss any disciplinary or dispute involving a single employee with anyone else in the company, other than nominated representatives. If they have not been very careful (and if they're in a dispute like this I doubt they have been) they have probably gone and violated this, and chances are the Data Protection Act too, as these letters sound like an overzealous local manager to me.

If you ask me, any depot that goes into dispute over a matter like this; there is a deep set of problems and this is just the tip of the iceberg.

Those who say they should just go find another job, I invite you to be in a dispute with your employer for real reasons, and actually learn to appreciate what unions have doubtlessly done for you over the years.

 

[Qwerty133]

Those who say they should just go find another job, I invite you to be in a dispute with your employer for real reasons, and actually learn to appreciate what unions have doubtlessly done for you over the years.

That wasn't serious... (and I'm sure a lot of readers know exactly why I've said it )

 

[JohnB57]

One should remember though that an employer is not entitled in any way to discuss any disciplinary or dispute involving a single employee with anyone else in the company, other than nominated representatives. If they have not been very careful (and if they're in a dispute like this I doubt they have been) they have probably gone and violated this, and chances are the Data Protection Act too, as these letters sound like an overzealous local manager to me.

If you ask me, any depot that goes into dispute over a matter like this; there is a deep set of problems and this is just the tip of the iceberg.

But this is already public domain thanks to the union, not the company, who are perfectly entitled to represent their standpoint.

I'm both a socialist and a believer in the union movement, but these are matters that rarely deserve to get anywhere near strike action. The union member's upset because his management were aggressive? What a wimp.

 

[pemma]

One should remember though that an employer is not entitled in any way to discuss any disciplinary or dispute involving a single employee with anyone else in the company, other than nominated representatives.

Without knowing what the letter said I don't think we can conclude Northern have breached that requirement.

I imagine it would be written along the lines of "Dear xxxx, As you will be aware the RMT Union have balloted on strike action over the alleged mistreatment of a sick employee. We can assure you that the RMT claim is incorrect and we have followed the correct procedure as detailed in employee contracts and employment law. For this reason we recommend you do not vote in favour of strike action."

 

[driver_m]

But this is already public domain thanks to the union, not the company, who are perfectly entitled to represent their standpoint.

I'm both a socialist and a believer in the union movement, but these are matters that rarely deserve to get anywhere near strike action. The union member's upset because his management were aggressive? What a wimp.

How do you know what the circumstances are? That aggression mentioned could be threatening to sack that particular member. You're out of order with that wimp comment.

 

[TOCDriver]

Some nice RDW coming for Vic and Lime Street guards no doubt

 

[reb0118]

Some nice RDW coming for Vic and Lime Street guards no doubt

Would that not be "scabbing"? If your depot is not in dispute then you can work your booked turns and indeed overtime to cover for lieu days and shortages at other depots but you should not work overtime to cover a depot that is in dispute.

If you are spare then you can be required to cover for a depot in dispute also your booked turn can be cancelled and you can be sent to cover said depot's work but again you should not work overtime to facilitate this. i.e. you must book on/off at your home depot and stick within your day. It goes without saying that you must have the route & traction knowledge required.

 

[TOCDriver]

Would that not be "scabbing"? If your depot is not in dispute then you can work your booked turns and indeed overtime to cover for lieu days and shortages at other depots but you should not work overtime to cover a depot that is in dispute.

If you are spare then you can be required to cover for a depot in dispute also your booked turn can be cancelled and you can be sent to cover said depot's work but again you should not work overtime to facilitate this. i.e. you must book on/off at your home depot and stick within your day. It goes without saying that you must have the route & traction knowledge required.

Lime Street and Vic Guards have the proper training to cover the Wigan guards (bar the Barrow Lancaster / Preston services which can be easily covered by Barrow / Workington). And 'scabbing' is not illegal - If you want to work your rest days covering disputes, then so be it. I have myself done it before and I will do it again if need be. I consider Unions to be more trouble than what they're worth. There are plenty of guards who would be very grateful of the extra money. The Unions are getting too big for their boots again

 

[Beveridges]

I consider Unions to be more trouble than what they're worth

In general or just in this case ?

I seriously doubt wages for Drivers, MDD's and maybe even Guards would be as high as they are now if it wasn't for Unions. Higher management wouldn't have it.

 

[tony6499]

Lime Street and Vic Guards have the proper training to cover the Wigan guards (bar the Barrow Lancaster / Preston services which can be easily covered by Barrow / Workington). And 'scabbing' is not illegal - If you want to work your rest days covering disputes, then so be it. I have myself done it before and I will do it again if need be. I consider Unions to be more trouble than what they're worth. There are plenty of guards who would be very grateful of the extra money. The Unions are getting too big for their boots again

Do you negotiate your pay rise yourself every year ?

 

[Legzr1]

Lime Street and Vic Guards have the proper training to cover the Wigan guards (bar the Barrow Lancaster / Preston services which can be easily covered by Barrow / Workington). And 'scabbing' is not illegal - If you want to work your rest days covering disputes, then so be it. I have myself done it before and I will do it again if need be. I consider Unions to be more trouble than what they're worth. There are plenty of guards who would be very grateful of the extra money. The Unions are getting too big for their boots again

I've searched your post three or four times and I failed to find the ''.

Edit your post again to add it as some people might think you're actually serious...

 

[dstrat]

In general or just in this case ?

I seriously doubt wages for Drivers, MDD's and maybe even Guards would be as high as they are now if it wasn't for Unions. Higher management wouldn't have it.

Quoted for truth!

If you do not believe in unions, they you don't actually believe in democracy and actually you believe in the class system that ensures an underclass remains. Sure the unions don't always get it right, but they can be worth their weight in gold at times when you are trying to preserve your wage and rights.

 

[bunnahabhain]

Lime Street and Vic Guards have the proper training to cover the Wigan guards (bar the Barrow Lancaster / Preston services which can be easily covered by Barrow / Workington). And 'scabbing' is not illegal - If you want to work your rest days covering disputes, then so be it. I have myself done it before and I will do it again if need be. I consider Unions to be more trouble than what they're worth. There are plenty of guards who would be very grateful of the extra money. The Unions are getting too big for their boots again

Think of all the extra large portions of sausage chips and beans you could buy! Scabbing might not be illegal, but the vast majority of your colleagues will think of you as little more than a slug.

 

[313103]

Lime Street and Vic Guards have the proper training to cover the Wigan guards (bar the Barrow Lancaster / Preston services which can be easily covered by Barrow / Workington). And 'scabbing' is not illegal - If you want to work your rest days covering disputes, then so be it. I have myself done it before and I will do it again if need be. I consider Unions to be more trouble than what they're worth. There are plenty of guards who would be very grateful of the extra money. The Unions are getting too big for their boots again

Perhaps you should tell your Managing Director that the salary that you get (and a very good one negotiated by the union that represents your grade) is to high and you willing to accept a much lower salary and work longer than is agreed (again agreed by same said union). But of course you won't do that because you are very happy to accept all these good salaries and term of conditions done by the union.

Your right about one thing though being a SCAB isn't illegal, but once a scab always a scab.

Of course one thing I can't stand is freeloaders who get the benefit of a nice wage and conditions and are not members of a union.

 

[40129]

Perhaps you should tell your Managing Director that the salary that you get (and a very good one negotiated by the union that represents your grade) is to high and you willing to accept a much lower salary and work longer than is agreed (again agreed by same said union). But of course you won't do that because you are very happy to accept all these good salaries and term of conditions done by the union.

Your right about one thing though being a SCAB isn't illegal, but once a scab always a scab.

Of course one thing I can't stand is freeloaders who get the benefit of a nice wage and conditions and are not members of a union.

Well said!

Could not have put it any better

 

[LowLevel]

Lime Street and Vic Guards have the proper training to cover the Wigan guards (bar the Barrow Lancaster / Preston services which can be easily covered by Barrow / Workington). And 'scabbing' is not illegal - If you want to work your rest days covering disputes, then so be it. I have myself done it before and I will do it again if need be. I consider Unions to be more trouble than what they're worth. There are plenty of guards who would be very grateful of the extra money. The Unions are getting too big for their boots again

Are you one of those that sits alone and even their guard changes ends inside the train to avoid them? Such is the lot of the scab. They don't come in the train crew mess room at our depot.

 

[Pumbaa]

Your right about one thing though being a SCAB isn't illegal, but once a scab always a scab.

Of course one thing I can't stand is freeloaders who get the benefit of a nice wage and conditions and are not members of a union.

And the one thing I can't stand is narrow-mindedness when it comes to matters like this. Let your members/brothers/whatever you want to call them when they're not singing from your hymn sheet do whatever they want to do.

This represents the worst of unionism on the railway. It undoes a whole load of good work, alienates those would otherwise support you. To me, bullying and subjugating your colleagues is as far from the point of unionism you can get.

 

[455driver]

That wasn't serious... (and I'm sure a lot of readers know exactly why I've said it )

And I sure a lot of others dont! :roll:
Bearing in mind all the anti-guard, pro DOO posters on this forum do you think it was a good idea to post that remark?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The union member's upset because his management were aggressive? What a wimp.

Perhaps you could furnish us with the correct details then!
I assume by your post that you are aware of the exact details in this potential dispute.

 

[Qwerty133]

And I sure a lot of others dont! :roll:
Bearing in mind all the anti-guard, pro DOO posters on this forum do you think it was a good idea to post that remark?.

I think most of the Northern guards on the forum, have seen the posts that it was a reference to, the post had a and white text stating it wasn't serious, so no I don't think it was inappropriate to post it.

 

[Anvil1984]

And the one thing I can't stand is narrow-mindedness when it comes to matters like this. Let your members/brothers/whatever you want to call them when they're not singing from your hymn sheet do whatever they want to do.

This represents the worst of unionism on the railway. It undoes a whole load of good work, alienates those would otherwise support you. To me, bullying and subjugating your colleagues is as far from the point of unionism you can get.

I can't agree. The point of a union is to stick together and you go with what the majority vote for. Otherwise what's the point in the ballot.

Also I think it's despicable if Wigan men were trying to make a point by sacrificing a days pay only for vultures at other depots to swoop in for overtime (covering jobs off spare is understandable) and knowing guards at other depots in the area I expect them to stand firm

 

[TOCDriver]

I've searched your post three or four times and I failed to find the ''.

Edit your post again to add it as some people might think you're actually serious...

No need to edit it. I know the unions for what they are and I don't like them. I'm not a member of any union and I plan for it to stay that way. I have worked in both the public and private sectors without union membership and have shown loyality to my paymaster, and they have appreciated that. It has done me no harm so far. I will not go out of my way to personally profit from any dispute the unions and their members may have, but I certainly don't want to be a part of them. They are hypocritical in many ways. And some of the comments posted here regarding my opinion of them just goes to show you how nasty and intollerent they can be. I'll look after myself thanks. We live in a so called democracy and free speech. If I don't like how the unions operate and I don't want any part of it, then that should be respected. I want no part of the left wing thanks.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Your right about one thing though being a SCAB isn't illegal, but once a scab always a scab.

Of course one thing I can't stand is freeloaders who get the benefit of a nice wage and conditions and are not members of a union.

How am I a freeloader? I have always negotiated my contract if need be. Go away and take your left wing rubbish with you. It's about time the Unions were clamped down on again like Thatcher did in the 80's.

 

[TDK]

No need to edit it. I know the unions for what they are and I don't like them. I'm not a member of any union and I plan for it to stay that way. I have worked in both the public and private sectors without union membership and have shown loyality to my paymaster, and they have appreciated that. It has done me no harm so far. I will not go out of my way to personally profit from any dispute the unions and their members may have, but I certainly don't want to be a part of them. They are hypocritical in many ways. And some of the comments posted here regarding my opinion of them just goes to show you how nasty and intollerent they can be. I'll look after myself thanks. We live in a so called democracy and free speech. If I don't like how the unions operate and I don't want any part of it, then that should be respected. I want no part of the left wing thanks.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


How am I a freeloader? I have always negotiated my contract if need be. Go away and take your left wing rubbish with you. It's about time the Unions were clamped down on again like Thatcher did in the 80's.

The union is an insurance policy and that is why most drivers are in a union.

 

[TOCDriver]

The union is an insurance policy and that is why most drivers are in a union.

I have no problems with people wanting to be in a union, and conversely they should have no problems with me not wanting to be in one for the reasons I have already outlined. Yet it seems most do have a problem with that for some reason. That's partly the reason I don't like them.

 

[Legzr1]

No need to edit it. I know the unions for what they are and I don't like them. I'm not a member of any union and I plan for it to stay that way. I have worked in both the public and private sectors without union membership and have shown loyality to my paymaster, and they have appreciated that. It has done me no harm so far. I will not go out of my way to personally profit from any dispute the unions and their members may have, but I certainly don't want to be a part of them. They are hypocritical in many ways. And some of the comments posted here regarding my opinion of them just goes to show you how nasty and intollerent they can be. I'll look after myself thanks. We live in a so called democracy and free speech. If I don't like how the unions operate and I don't want any part of it, then that should be respected. I want no part of the left wing thanks.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Funnily enough you've actually edited it already by now stating you wouldn't go out of your way to profit from any dispute - that's not what you said earlier - you have done in the past and would do in the future.

I don't know you personally and don't work for the same company.

For that I am truly thankful.


As for negotiating your own terms - in past jobs, maybe - in this job, no way.

Take the benefits fought for and agreed by your colleagues then sit back and contribute absolutely nothing bar a half-arsed Thatcher comment?

What a thoroughly decent thing to do :roll:


Edited to add: this was going to be in a PM but for some reason you don't accept them - strange that...

 

[Carlisle]

How am I a freeloader? I have always negotiated my contract if need be. Go away and take your left wing rubbish with you. It's about time the Unions were clamped down on again like Thatcher did in the 80's.

So if your boss has a bad day tomorrow and decides to suspend and/ or dismiss you for what you may consider a trivial or made up issue you will just say ok fine in this democracy of individuals it's your personal choice to do that I'll clear my locker now