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Northern Rail debt letter

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DaveNewcastle

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My theory was that not BOTH could prosecute at the same time. For example, Northern Rail could get their money and then pass the case over to VT for them to get some money as well.
Surely there is some confusion here. We are considering the prosecution of a Criminal offence, therefore any 'money' paid following a successful prosecution will be in the form of a fine, payable to the UK Treasury.
Yes, there will be a claim for the comparitively small amount of the fare due, but the more substantial amounts would be the fine, Criminal Court Charge, Victim Surcharge and the Prosecution's costs.

To be quite clear, one of several parties could bring forward this prosecution, but only one of them.
 
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34D

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My theory was that not BOTH could prosecute at the same time. For example, Northern Rail could get their money and then pass the case over to VT for them to get some money as well.

It would be legal (albeit immoral) for northern to accept a settlement payment from a customer, then virgin write, threaten prosecution, accept a settlement, BTP to write and threaten prosecution, go through with a prosecution for a byelaw offence, and then me commence a prosecution myself for a RoRA offence.

The courts would take the earlier payments into account though
 

furlong

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It would be legal (albeit immoral) for northern to accept a settlement payment from a customer, then virgin write, threaten prosecution, accept a settlement, BTP to write and threaten prosecution, go through with a prosecution for a byelaw offence, and then me commence a prosecution myself for a RoRA offence.

Are you aware of circumstances such as these actually occurring or is this merely hypothetical?

I should hope that any customer faced with those situations would seek appropriate legal advice and repel those prosecutors robustly!

In the one recent case that does come immediately to mind the BTP (quite correctly, I believe) did not prosecute:

I have been told by the British Transport Police that they do not regard it as being in the public interest to pursue a case against me.
 

DaveNewcastle

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It would be legal (albeit immoral) for northern to accept a settlement payment from a customer, then virgin write, threaten prosecution, accept a settlement, BTP to write and threaten prosecution, go through with a prosecution for a byelaw offence, and then me commence a prosecution myself for a RoRA offence. . . . . .

Are you aware of circumstances such as these actually occurring or is this merely hypothetical?

I should hope that any customer faced with those situations would seek appropriate legal advice and repel those prosecutors robustly!
As is so often to be found, many of the answers to questions about the interpretaion and application of railway law were clarified in the early years of the legislation.

This one was the subject of Noble v Killick (1891) 60 LJMC 61 DC.

Killick refused to pay an excess fare which would have regularised his invalid ticket. The lower Court dismissed the prosecution because having been asked to pay the excess fare, he could not be acted upon criminally. The Company appealled. The Appeal Court held that the Company, having demanded payment of the fare, does not exonerate an offender from criminal liability.
Case remitted for conviction under the Regulation of Railways Act S.5 (2).

That deals with the question of a Criminal liability remaining subject to a prosecution after a civil debt is proposed. I can't think of a case in railway law where multiple parties have accepted civil settlements in lieu of a prosecution for a single incident of an unpaid fare.
 
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thesjd

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Been issued with an £80 pound 'fixed penalty' so I guess this is a good result.

However the letter only arrived today, seven days into the 14 day period I have to pay! I went to pay on the phone and the reference number I was given was not on their record.

Will call up and talk to a human tomorrow.
 
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island

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High horses are not a place where you should be looking to hang out. You committed a criminal offence and any resolution short of being prosecuted in court is something you should be grateful for.
 
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