Northern - Reservations only

[RJ]

Quick question. Any recent experiences would be helpful.

Are Northern ticket offices able to issue a reservation only if a ticket is already held?

I was told today that it's not possible and that reservations can only be issued in conjunction with a ticket sale. I'm trying to establish if this is the case because of a software limitation, because it is possible just about everywhere else!

Thanks!

 

[Iskra]

Quick question. Any recent experiences would be helpful.

Are Northern ticket offices able to issue a reservation only if a ticket is already held?

I was told today that it's not possible and that reservations can only be issued in conjunction with a ticket sale. I'm trying to establish if this is the case because of a software limitation, because it is possible just about everywhere else!

Thanks!

Unless something has changed recently. That's not true, although last time I did this, they did ask me to present my tickets in order to do the reservation.

 

[RJ]

Unless something has changed recently. That's not true, although last time I did this, they did ask me to present my tickets in order to do the reservation.

Thanks for that.

Something that may be significant - I required a reservation for a LNER service departing within a few minutes.

Apparently it was not possible to issue a reservation unless issued in conjunction with a ticket. If this is true, what arrangements do Northern make for people who already hold a walkup ticket and need to travel on a LNER service which requires reservations?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Any booking office[1] should be able to do this though I think some TISs require the ticket number to be entered to do it.

Sounds like another member of booking office staff trying hard to abolish their job. Or possibly (just thought) it was too close to departure to do it but they didn't realise the reason why it wouldn't let them.

[1] Other than possibly Avanti's halfwitted app-based crock, I'm not sure, but given that there's a ton of other things it also can't do...

 

[RJ]

I was more thinking that it could be a software limitation, or a local policy - it has piqued my interest.

Went to an Avanti ticket office for the first time yesterday. Had good fun trying to buy an "Explore Cambrian Coast" ticket yesterday. Asked for it by name - no luck. So I opened up the entry on BR fares on my phone and suggested trying "Cambrian Coaster Day Ranger" instead. No luck initially but we got there in the end.

Fortunately the train was train was running late!

The practice of advertising the product with one name and having it in the system under a completely different name makes things a bit more difficult than necessary!

 

[Ianno87]

I wish the powers that be would review this practice of advertising the product with one name and having it in the system under a completely different name. It makes people's lives hard!

Given that many TOCs at least do bother to advertise these products on their website, the ability to actually buy them online would be a plus...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Given that many TOCs at least do bother to advertise these products on their website, the ability to actually buy them online would be a plus...

TBH I wouldn't overly object to them, as niche products, only being available online. It would take out some of the complexity, and the site could do the job of promoting them to the right audience.

It's always been difficult to get ticket offices to issue them as other than very specific ones like GM Rail Rangers and Wayfarers they don't sell many.

 

[RJ]

TBH I wouldn't overly object to them, as niche products, only being available online. It would take out some of the complexity, and the site could do the job of promoting them to the right audience.

It's always been difficult to get ticket offices to issue them as other than very specific ones like GM Rail Rangers and Wayfarers they don't sell many.

Unfortunately I would as my railcard discount isn't available online! I've just finished a completely capricious expedition around South and West Wales, the Cambrian Coast, and Northern England using a whole load of rangers and rovers! It was an interesting set of experiences, buying these tickets and I appreciate the difficulties involved on both the buyers and sellers sides. Well done to Merseyrail, I was particularly happy with the sales experiences at Central and New Brighton!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Unfortunately I would as my railcard discount isn't available online! I've just finished a completely capricious expedition around South and West Wales, the Cambrian Coast, and Northern England using a whole load of rangers and rovers! It was an interesting set of experiences, buying these tickets and I appreciate the difficulties involved on both the buyers and sellers sides. Well done to Merseyrail, I was particularly happy with the sales experiences at Central and New Brighton!

Good to hear Merseyrail ticket offices getting a recommendation - so often they are the subject of bad reports on here.

 

[Haywain]

what arrangements do Northern make for people who already hold a walkup ticket and need to travel on a LNER service which requires reservations?

I don’t know about Northern but you can easily make a reservation for LNER services on the LNER app.

 

[RJ]

I don’t know about Northern but you can easily make a reservation for LNER services on the LNER app.

Thank you for the tip - I will do that in future.

I also didn't realise that Super Off Peak Singles from Leeds to London are half the price of Wakefield to London - will have to bear that in mind in future too!

 

[John @ home]

I also didn't realise that Super Off Peak Singles from Leeds to London are half the price of Wakefield to London

brfares.com states that there two prices for Super Off Peak Singles from Wakefield to London:

Wakefield Stations - London Terminals SSS Super OffPeak S £118.00 (Railcard £77.90) Validity Code 1L
Wakefield Stations - London Terminals SSU Super Off Pk S £58.35 (Railcard £38.50) Validity Code 1L

 

[Hadders]

Thank you for the tip - I will do that in future.

I also didn't realise that Super Off Peak Singles from Leeds to London are half the price of Wakefield to London - will have to bear that in mind in future too!

This is LNER's single leg pricing where they have abolished returns from London to York/Leeds/Newcastle/Edinburgh. Only Anytime and Super Off Peak available and routed via the ECML only.

Has many advantages but also some disadvantages, 'legacy' returns can be purchased from places like Finsbury Park if a return is needed.

 

[Haywain]

they have abolished returns from London to York/Leeds/Newcastle/Edinburgh. Only Anytime and Super Off Peak available and routed via the ECML only.

York is not part of the single leg pricing trial and has return fares. The others are not routed ECML only but are geographically restricted via York for the Edinburgh fares and via Peterborough for Newcastle and Leeds.

 

[Andy Pacer]

You can also do them on the website and entering '0' in the booking reference box if you don't already have your ticket.

 

[Barnsley]

Northern use the same Star ticketing system as we do, it is not a problem to just issue a reservation, I do it no question if somebody asks for one!

 

[RJ]

Northern use the same Star ticketing system as we do, it is not a problem to just issue a reservation, I do it no question if somebody asks for one!

Thank you for confirming that. If I travel LNER again I will go with Haywain's suggestion of booking the reservation via the app.

 

[alistairlees]

Using the LNER website to get a reservation is also very easy. I was delayed by southeastern today, so missed my booked train from kings cross, but easily got a reservation on a later train. Only about 20% full.

 

[RJ]

brfares.com states that there two prices for Super Off Peak Singles from Wakefield to London:

Wakefield Stations - London Terminals SSS Super OffPeak S £118.00 (Railcard £77.90) Validity Code 1L
Wakefield Stations - London Terminals SSU Super Off Pk S £58.35 (Railcard £38.50) Validity Code 1L

The fares shown on BRFares aren't all necessarily available to buy everywhere. The £58.35 ticket can't be sold by ticket offices unless the computer is dodgy.

 

[Ianno87]

Using the LNER website to get a reservation is also very easy. I was delayed by southeastern today, so missed my booked train from kings cross, but easily got a reservation on a later train. Only about 20% full.

On another thread, people are claiming how impossible such a thing is and how it is (apparently) a massive barrier to the walk-up railway.

 

[yorkie]

On another thread, people are claiming how impossible such a thing is and how it is (apparently) a massive barrier to the walk-up railway.

Depends how 'full' the trains are....

1002 yrk to kgx between Stevenage and kings cross:

Coach A: didn't walk through
B: ditto
C: 13
G: 23
H: 36
J: 31
K: 13 std /11 1st
L: 12
M: out of use

This train was "sold out" for this section between Stevenage and London.

...My LNER train out of King's Cross on Sunday was lightly loaded despite being "sold out" in Standard Class, with only 1st class fares available. Not a single person was in Coach C. I walked past many empty rows and got a table to myself in Coach B ...

 

[robbeech]

Unless something has changed recently. That's not true, although last time I did this, they did ask me to present my tickets in order to do the reservation.

I think it’s fairly common to require to see a valid ticket in order to give a reservation, and fair enough, after all, a reservation is part of an itinerary which we are all very quick to jump on when passengers are denied their rights. I appreciate it is a bit different when not issued together but it saves a lot of hassle for the toc AND the passenger. Of course, there are a variety of ticket offices, or staff within them that won’t ask.

Sounds like another member of booking office staff trying hard to abolish their job. Or possibly (just thought) it was too close to departure to do it but they didn't realise the reason why it wouldn't let them.

In the first instance I would assume that they likely haven’t been told you can do it, or have even been told not to bother. There’s no gain from doing it. I wouldn’t be quite as quick to suggest they’re deliberately being difficult but I certainly wouldn’t rule it out.

Thank you for the tip - I will do that in future.

I also didn't realise that Super Off Peak Singles from Leeds to London are half the price of Wakefield to London - will have to bear that in mind in future too!

I expect that there will be break of journey restrictions on the outbound out in place one day to stop you starting short (in theory).


I’ve obtained reservations at Northern ticket offices before, although not for a couple of years. I even got one at Worksop, although which member of staff is working can make all the difference there.




Edited (quote debacle)

 

[RJ]

I was travelling from Leeds to King's Cross and held a South Pennines Day Ranger, which is valid between Leeds and Wakefield.

What I requested was a single from Wakefield to London and a (compulsory) reservation to get me on the train to London. I was told a reservation couldn't be issued to cover the Leeds to Wakefield section unless I was also buying a ticket in that transaction. Was also told that I couldn't get a through reservation even if I had tickets to cover the whole journey.

With time ticking away I eventually got a Wakefield to London Super Off Peak Single with a reservation, unable to get a reservation between Leeds and Wakefield.

I had no idea that a Leeds to London Super Off Peak Single would have cost half the price due to this trial LNER are running. Because I didn't check the prices before going to the window it was down to me I paid almost twice as much as I should have for the trip! Lesson learned!

 

[Andy Pacer]

I was travelling from Leeds to King's Cross and held a South Pennines Day Ranger, which is valid between Leeds and Wakefield.

What I requested was a single from Wakefield to London and a (compulsory) reservation to get me on the train to London. I was told a reservation couldn't be issued to cover the Leeds to Wakefield section unless I was also buying a ticket in that transaction. Was also told that I couldn't get a through reservation even if I had tickets to cover the whole journey.

With time ticking away I eventually got a Wakefield to London Super Off Peak Single with a reservation, unable to get a reservation between Leeds and Wakefield.

I had no idea that a ticket from Leeds to London Super Off Peak Single would have cost half the price due to this trial LNER are running. Because I didn't check the prices before going to the window it was down to me I paid almost twice as much as I should have for the trip! Lesson learned!

It may be lesson learned but should have been far easier in the first place with your perfectly valid rover!

 

[alistairlees]

I was travelling from Leeds to King's Cross and held a South Pennines Day Ranger, which is valid between Leeds and Wakefield.

What I requested was a single from Wakefield to London and a (compulsory) reservation to get me on the train to London. I was told a reservation couldn't be issued to cover the Leeds to Wakefield section unless I was also buying a ticket in that transaction. Was also told that I couldn't get a through reservation even if I had tickets to cover the whole journey.

With time ticking away I eventually got a Wakefield to London Super Off Peak Single with a reservation, unable to get a reservation between Leeds and Wakefield.

I had no idea that a Leeds to London Super Off Peak Single would have cost half the price due to this trial LNER are running. Because I didn't check the prices before going to the window it was down to me I paid almost twice as much as I should have for the trip! Lesson learned!

Which ticket office was this at? If it was one local to the route (such as Leeds or Wakefield Westgate) then, given that you had discussions about both Leeds and Wakefield Westgate as being possible origins from which to purchase a ticket / reservation, I would have expected them to point out the price differential to you. If that’s the case then I would write to whichever TOC operates the ticket office, pointing this out. After all, they don’t want to be putting people off returning to trains.

 

[RJ]

It may be lesson learned but should have been far easier in the first place with your perfectly valid rover!

The lesson I learned is to always check the price before going to a ticket office to buy a ticket. Single leg pricing creates fares anomalies and on this occasion I failed to take advantage of that because I didn't check first.

The thing with the reservations is easily avoided as I now know there's no need to go to a ticket office for that.

Which ticket office was this at? If it was one local to the route (such as Leeds or Wakefield Westgate) then, given that you had discussions about both Leeds and Wakefield Westgate as being possible origins from which to purchase a ticket / reservation, I would have expected them to point out the price differential to you. If that’s the case then I would write to whichever TOC operates the ticket office, pointing this out. After all, they don’t want to be putting people off returning to trains.

If I was behind that window, I'd have said "ok, you have that ranger which covers part of your journey but a single from Leeds is about half the price of a single from Wakefield." But that kind of service is a nice to have because by the letter of the guidelines you give the customer what they ask for. On that basis I won't go to the bother of feeding back. I should have checked both before going to the ticket office. The reservation thing was an issue, but after posting on here a solution has been identified to get around that.

That said, it helps if "nice to have" comes as standard. More often than not, customers ask for a ticket that's a lot more expensive than what they need. On every single occasion the situation should be assessed and the customer quoted the price of what they've asked for and that of a cheaper, more suitable ticket that is compliant with retailing guidelines. Single leg pricing, abolition of off peak tickets in London, restrictions on promotions within London and various other things throw up pricing anomalies and I see it as the job to inform people of the simplest and cheapest ticket the powers that be want us to sell.

One thing that is for sure is it's not always that easy to get the best deal as a customer and sometimes you have to be very on the ball

 

[Joe Paxton]

...
The practice of advertising the product with one name and having it in the system under a completely different name makes things a bit more difficult than necessary!

It's pretty moronic.

 

[317 forever]

Unless something has changed recently. That's not true, although last time I did this, they did ask me to present my tickets in order to do the reservation.

something similar did work out for me last month. I bought a Cross Country off-peak return online (from another TOC website) before reservations for my return leg on August Bank Holiday had even opened. I wasn't entirely sure initially which return train I'd choose but did not want to risk missing out on a reservation on my preferred outbound train. (The off-peak return fare was similar to 2 Advance Singles).

So, once reservations for the August Bank Holiday had opened, I popped to Stockport to collect my tickets, and arranged my return reservation there and then.

 

[CyrusWuff]

That said, it helps if "nice to have" comes as standard. More often than not, customers ask for a ticket that's a lot more expensive than what they need. On every single occasion the situation should be assessed and the customer quoted the price of what they've asked for and that of a cheaper, more suitable ticket that is compliant with retailing guidelines. Single leg pricing, abolition of off peak tickets in London, restrictions on promotions within London and various other things throw up pricing anomalies and I see it as the job to inform people of the simplest and cheapest ticket the powers that be want us to sell.

The trouble with "nice to have" is that you can fall foul of impartial retailing rules with it, or not everyone working at a given Ticket Office will know about it...and then you get people who argue over a 5p difference in fares (yes, really...) when they're served by someone who doesn't know the trick.

For example, there's a flow on my usual patch where you can save 23.5% when travelling at peak time with a simple split, as a different TOC sets the through fare. Unfortunately, too many people were offering the combination without being asked, so management had to send out a reminder about the importance of impartial retailing as the other TOC involved complained.

 

[RJ]

The trouble with "nice to have" is that you can fall foul of impartial retailing rules with it, or not everyone working at a given Ticket Office will know about it...and then you get people who argue over a 5p difference in fares (yes, really...) when they're served by someone who doesn't know the trick.

For example, there's a flow on my usual patch where you can save 23.5% when travelling at peak time with a simple split, as a different TOC sets the through fare. Unfortunately, too many people were offering the combination without being asked, so management had to send out a reminder about the importance of impartial retailing as the other TOC involved complained.

I'd argue that offering a Leeds to London ticket for a Leeds to London journey falls within the rules of impartial retailing - even if the customer thought they were paying a cheaper price by paying only for the uncovered part of the journey. I'd encourage helping customers if it's within the spirit of the rules, but not everyone agrees with that.

I'm not talking about offering split tickets or tickets from a different station or anything like that - as you've identified that just causes problems.