Northern Steam services on the Settle and Carlisle

[crehld]

Really? It was a forgone conclusion surely for all sorts of reasons, not least financial. Many locals watch the special charters knowing their chance of affording a trip is slim. At under£18 return for 3 hrs it makes it possible.

Indeed. As a local I have seen steam charter , and yet never had the chance to ride on one due to the sheer expense of them. I'm glad they've put these services on and at the standard price. It was made very clear in the various press releases / communications that encouraging locals to use them was one of the primary objectives. There's obviously an element of this to please the enthusiast which is fine, but Northern and the Settle Carlisle Development company have done an awful lot to encourage locals to using the line despite the disruption.

 

[mike57]

I think I've missed my chance then, I'm shocked all the reservations have gone so quickly

I am not, with the return trip costing around £20 return with the most expensive ticket, Anytime return, no railcards, I expected them to go very quickly, and even then I wasnt quick enough to get my first choice.

Compare that with around £100 for specials and its very good value.

I wonder what the economics are for Northern on this, say around 400 people per train, at maybe an average of £8 per run = around £3000+ per trip revenue, I wonder what the costs are. If they make a profit then I could see similar events elsewhere, otherwise it will be a one off promotion.

Hats off to Northern and the Friends of Settle Carlisle for making this happen, and allowing me to indulge what is a 'secondary' to me hobby at a decent price.

 

[Kentish Paul]

Can anyone explain how the three unreserved coaches will work? Is it turn up on the day, first come first served?

From reading the posts upthread there will be no standing allowed, so once the seats are full that's it. Must be going to be a strong staff presence to enforce this.

 

[Houghj40]

From reading the posts upthread there will be no standing allowed, so once the seats are full that's it. Must be going to be a strong staff presence to enforce this.

Yes but is it turn up on the day and get a reservation ( and then go and get breakfast somewhere) or is it form an orderly queue? Also how are they managing seat availability for the intermediate stops? I know people are wondering whether to take an early bus but don't want to be standing around in the cold for hours in a queue for health reasons.

 

[Ianigsy]

Indeed. As a local I have seen steam charter , and yet never had the chance to ride on one due to the sheer expense of them. I'm glad they've put these services on and at the standard price. It was made very clear in the various press releases / communications that encouraging locals to use them was one of the primary objectives. There's obviously an element of this to please the enthusiast which is fine, but Northern and the Settle Carlisle Development company have done an awful lot to encourage locals to using the line despite the disruption.

Apart from WCRC's Fellsman and Waverley, most steam charters on the S&C tend to originate in the south and are fairly inaccessible to people living in the immediate area.

Personally, although I have this week off work completely by coincidence, it looks as if I'll miss out as a family illness means that I can't make plans or commit to anything. Hopefully this will be the success that the pre-bookings seem to suggest and might encourage Northern to run a regular steam diagram, perhaps summer Saturdays out and back?

 

[Iskra]

I've booked on to one of these services now, but I will have to chance being able to get onto the other services that are already fully reserved.

Can anyone tell me if the Settle-Carlisle Day Ranger is vaild before 0845 please. I'm getting conflicting information on this.

 

[crehld]

Can anyone tell me if the Settle-Carlisle Day Ranger is vaild before 0845 please. I'm getting conflicting information on this.

It is valid at anytime, though if you're using a 16-25 railcard or a two together railcard there will be time restrictions as per the conditions of those railcards. See here: http://www.settle-carlisle.co.uk/new-day-ranger-ticket/

 

[Iskra]

It is valid at anytime, though if you're using a 16-25 railcard or a two together railcard there will be time restrictions as per the conditions of those railcards. See here: http://www.settle-carlisle.co.uk/new-day-ranger-ticket/

Thank you, I thought as much but the lady at the travel office told me it wasn't, but then printed me a reservation for the 0825 off Appleby...

For anyone wanting to do these services. There are still reservations available on the 0825 services South from Appleby. These can be reached on the 0529 from Leeds for those who don't mind an early get up.

 

[pdeaves]

I am lucky to have my reservations but I know others who don't and are confused about the turn up on the day option in the light of no standing available.

I can't see how 'no standing' can possibly work. There will be folk who want to stand in the vestibule; their reserved seat is thus unused and available for someone else. How is standing in the vestibule any different from waiting outside the toilet for it to become available, for example?

 

[Adam0984]

You can stand up they won't be tying people down. All it means is when the seats are full then no more people will be allowed as standees because people want to see the S&C scenery

 

[DarloRich]

it doesn't look like many seats are available to pre book now - Shall i chance it on the day?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

BTP tweeted last night that they are drafting in officers from all the surrounding counties for this, so it looks as if this time there will be a very well policed lineside and hopefully that will prevent any trespass related problems.

 

[HowMuch?]

Briefly - Help ! There's no mention of the day ranger on the National Rail Enquiries site.

I have bought a £15 "settle carlisle line day ranger" for the 15th Feb and I have reservations for the 1045 northbound and 1455 southbound.

I was originally just planning to use the ranger for Skipton-Appleby-Skipton. But I followed the link from a previous post and saw from the T&CS at settle-carlisle.co.uk that the ranger is valid all the way from Leeds without time restictions.

So I now plan to use the ranger to leave Leeds very early (before 8:45) and have a look at the almost unique triangular station at Shipley on the way, and still get to Skipton in time to see Tornado arrive from the north.

But I'm starting to get jittery . I did a belt-and-braces check on the ranger on the NRE site - I wanted a printout from there (the only official source of information, according to ATOC) to show to any staff who might not be familiarr with the ticket. But surprisingly the ranger is not on the NRE website. I rang the helpline and they hadn't heard of it either. So all I've got is a printout from the S&C website.

Can anyone help with

- Will a Leeds RPI accept a ticket they've probably never heard of being used in the Leeds rush hour, with a printout from "some random site". Or will I shortly be appearing on Disputes and Prosecutions with the Hangemflogems telling me I shouldn't have tried to use a ticket without reading a hundred pages of official T&Cs, and a criminal record for fraud is too good for me.

- Having just written that . I'm more than just jittery! Without an NRE page, how can I check the official T&Cs? Or is the ticket is in effect unuseable for someone who does not wish to risk prosecution? And has the ranger been on NRE before and mysteriously vanished, or never been on there?

 

[NeilWatson]

http://www.settle-carlisle.co.uk/new-day-ranger-ticket

A Settle Carlisle Day Ranger ticket is now available. This reduces the cost of travel for many journeys on the Leeds (or Bradford Forster Square)-Settle-Appleby-Carlisle line.

The offer has been introduced to encourage people to travel on the world-famous railway, which remains open while essential repairs are carried out at the northern end of the line between Armathwaite and Carlisle.

The ticket allows travel from any station between Leeds, or Bradford Forster Square, to Armathwaite (via Settle) and onwards to Carlisle using the connecting replacement bus service from Armathwaite. The ticket is also available for travel from all stations from Carlisle south to Leeds and Bradford. It is valid for one day and has no time restrictions. It will allow passengers to get on and off the train as they wish, traveling in any direction. Priced at £15.00 for adults and £7.50 for children, this is great value. Railcard holders (including the local Dales Railcard) will be eligible for a further 1/3 discount. The 16-25 Railcard can only be used after 10am Monday-Friday and at weekends to obtain a discount on the Ranger ticket.

The offer will be a fantastic opportunity for people from West Yorkshire to explore the Yorkshire Dales and beyond at a great price. It will also benefit the local residents along the line with a great value fare to Leeds and Bradford in the south and Carlisle in the north.

The Day Ranger ticket can only be purchased at any staffed station ticket office or from the conductor on the train.

 

[Iskra]

I've got reservations for the 15th, 10:45 northwards and 14:55 southwards. I have a £15 "settle carlisle line day ranger.

I was originally just planning to use the ranger just for Skipton-Appleby-Skipton. But following up the link from a previous post I found from the T&CS (at settle-carlisle.co.uk) show that the ranger is valid all the way from Leeds with no time restictions.

So I now plan to use the ranger to leave Leeds very early (before 8:45) and have a look at the almost unique triangular station at Shipley on the way, and still get to Skipton in time to see Tornado arrive from the north.

But I'm starting to get jittery . I did a belt-and-braces check on the ranger on the NRE site - I wanted a printout from there (the only official source of information, according to ATOC) to show to any staff who might not be familiarr with the ticket. But surprisingly the ranger is not on the NRE website. I rang the helpline and they hadn't heard of it either. So all I've got is a printout from the S&C website.

Can anyone help with

- Will a Leeds RPI accept a ticket they've probably never heard of being used in the Leeds rush hour, with a printout from "some random site". Or will I shortly be appearing on Disputes and Prosecutions with the Hangemflogems telling me I shouldn't have tried to use a ticket without reading a hundred pages of official T&Cs, and a criminal record for fraud is too good for me.

- Having just written that . I'm more than just jittery! Without an NRE page, how can I check the official T&Cs? Or is the ticket is in effect unuseable for someone who does not wish to risk prosecution? And has the ranger been on NRE before and mysteriously vanished, or never been on there?

You should be absolutely fine. They are vaild from Leeds and I suspect the gateline at Leeds will see quite a few of them over this period.

A lot of staff seem to give the benefit of the doubt on tickets they aren't sure about. And some manual checks aren't very thorough at all, they may only look at the big date written on it and nothing more, sometimes just holding a piece of orange ticket-like card appears to be enough to get you through.

If you were challenged, politely ask the gateline assistant to refer to their supervisor or the ticket office for clarification. The only advice I would offer, is to arrive a little early to ensure you can get through. Your ticket will probably not be accepted by the barriers before 0845 at Leeds, so you will have to show it to a person.

I too rang the Northern helpline about this ticket, they also hadn't heard of it. I hung up and drove to the ticket office at Meadowhall instead, where they sorted me out.

 

[LeylandLen]

The Settle to Carlisle line comes under the Northern Rail TOC. I can not see anything on https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/tickets/33-rangers-and-rovers
about the Settle Carlisle day ranger ticket that enforces this "It is valid for one day and has no time restrictions."

Also it states "The Day Ranger ticket can only be purchased at any staffed station ticket office.." , now is that ANY staffed ticket office or just ones on the Settle Carlisle line including Leeds and Bradford FS .??

 

[HowMuch?]

Thanks Iskra. I couldn't work out how to ring Northern - the number on their site led to a series of "push button one to be on hold for ten minutes" robots until it finally put me through to National Eail enquiries. Not only hadn't they heard of the ranger, they hadn't heard of Settle or Carlisle either!

I was going to try to ring Northern direct, so you've saved me a job. Nice to know they've not heard of if either.

LeylandLen. I bought mine at Sheffield. Which was a bit of a surprise They can be sniffy about out of area tickets.

New info: Sheffield showed me a printout from their folder of Ranger info. Loked rather old and said only coverage was between Settle and Carlisle. Meadowhall (a Northern station) said the information on their system (I think it was the screen that they actually sell the ticket from) was that it was not valid before 8:45. Neither was what I hoped to hear. So I think we need some reassurance from an official source before we blithely use a ranger from Leeds (esp in the rush hour).

Why would this not be on NRE? Does the guidance on the S&C site have any official standing?

 

[NeilWatson]

http://www.railrover.org/pages/settle-and-carlisle-day-ranger.html

I appreciate this is also an 'independent' site but the two are consistent!

 

[Iskra]

Thanks Iskra. I couldn't work out how to ring Northern - the number on their site led to a series of "push button one to be on hold for ten minutes" robots until it finally put me through to National Eail enquiries. Not only hadn't they heard of the ranger, they hadn't heard of Settle or Carlisle either!

I was going to try to ring Northern direct, so you've saved me a job. Nice to know they've not heard of if either.

LeylandLen. I bought mine at Sheffield. Which was a bit of a surprise They can be sniffy about out of area tickets.

New info: Sheffield showed me a printout from their folder of Ranger info. Loked rather old and said only coverage was between Settle and Carlisle. Meadowhall (a Northern station) said the information on their system (I think it was the screen that they actually sell the ticket from) was that it was not valid before 8:45. Neither was what I hoped to hear. So I think we need some reassurance from an official source before we blithely use a ranger from Leeds (esp in the rush hour).

Why would this not be on NRE? Does the guidance on the S&C site have any official standing?

Meadowhall also told me 0845, but she just googled incorrect information- I could see her screen.

This ticket is only available to attract people on to the line during its partial closure, which is why it is causing confusion as many staff are confusing it with the normal one which does carry the 0845 restriction. Someone has provided a link with the correct information on this thread. It is available before 0845 from Leeds unless you are using a 16-25 or two together railcard.

It's not on NRE as it's not been updated. Google brings up the Settle and Carlisle day ranger from 2014, so isn't up to date.

http://www.settle-carlisle.co.uk/new-day-ranger-ticket/

^Has the correct restrictions.

...I'm sure this will be fine, especially on the Skipton-Appleby part of the line. The danger is an ill-trained staff member out-of-area. All you can do is leave extra time for your journey I think.

I'm using it the day before you from Leeds, so I will let you know how I get on.

 

[HowMuch?]

Thanks again Iskra.

Your point that this is a different ticket had been lost on me.

Do let me know how you get on, ta.

Neil's link to Railrover.org is indeed reassuring. I like the explicit map, the explicit list of stations, and the explicit mention of times (it is somehow even more reassuring because it mentions a time limit that DOES apply, the 2T railcard.

Does anyone have a hotlline to ATOC? This rather undermines their claim that NRE is the definitive source of validity information.

 

[Crossover]

Thanks again Iskra.

Your point that this is a different ticket had been lost on me.

Do let me know how you get on, ta.

Neil's link to Railrover.org is indeed reassuring. I like the explicit map, the explicit list of stations, and the explicit mention of times (it is somehow even more reassuring because it mentions a time limit that DOES apply, the 2T railcard.

Does anyone have a hotlline to ATOC? This rather undermines their claim that NRE is the definitive source of validity information.

There has been an oversight on that site as they seem to have forgotten about the openings of Kirstall Forge and Apperley Bridge!

 

[Iskra]

Thanks again Iskra.

Your point that this is a different ticket had been lost on me.

Do let me know how you get on, ta.

Neil's link to Railrover.org is indeed reassuring. I like the explicit map, the explicit list of stations, and the explicit mention of times (it is somehow even more reassuring because it mentions a time limit that DOES apply, the 2T railcard.

Does anyone have a hotlline to ATOC? This rather undermines their claim that NRE is the definitive source of validity information.

I'm ringing them now.

http://www.raildeliverygroup.com/contact-us.html

Update: I've explained the situation to ATOC and they are looking into it. I will also try speaking to Northern Rail, but getting to speak to a human is quite difficult.

 

[Iskra]

Right, I have spoken to both Northern Rail and ATOC/RDG about this now.

They advise to print off this page to avoid any issues when using this ticket:

http://www.settle-carlisle.co.uk/new-day-ranger-ticket/

They are happy that this will suffice as it is an offer Northern have in partnership with the Settle and Carlisle community rail group so they think their staff should accept this. They are sending me an email saying this too. The Northern lady did say she would ensure staff knew about it too.

 

[HowMuch?]

Iskra,

Thanks very much It's good to have it acknowledged by ATOC that the SC site is hosted by an official partnerof Northern. I feel brave enough to stride up to the Leeds gateline now. I hope I still will in a fortnight. I did check that it wasn't undercutting a Skipton Leeds peak return - that WOULD have raised eyebrows!

I'll take a copy of the railrover.org page as well. It looks authoritative, unless anyone notices the missing new stations (as Crossover did) !

Ta, happier now.

 

[LeylandLen]

Thanks everyone for relevant info and observations ; very interesting. Living in Lancashire I doubt the 0845 restriction affects me for Setttle and Carlisle line (unlikely to want to use anyone before 0845 due to distance) I just wanted things clarified .Northern does have bad points but in general the 0845 restriction on its Rovers and Rangers is obviously a good thing when there is the more general restriction of 0930

 

[lejog]

The Settle to Carlisle line comes under the Northern Rail TOC. I can not see anything on https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/tickets/33-rangers-and-rovers
about the Settle Carlisle day ranger ticket that enforces this "It is valid for one day and has no time restrictions."

IIRC, details for this ticket appeared in a news item on the old Northern site which disappeared on the change of franchise. However there is a news item on the new site which says.

Meanwhile, the Settle Carlisle Day Ranger ticket is still available for travel between Leeds-Settle-Carlisle (and Bradford Forster Square). At £15, less any railcard discounts, it allows a whole day of travel on the line in both directions.

 

[crehld]

I'm puzzled where all this confusion is coming from. It is without doubt that the Settle-Carlisle day ranger is valid at anytime (save for the usual railcard restrictions which may be in place)and this is well advertised. It is by no means an uncommon ticket, and you will have no issues with any of the guards along the route. That it undercuts the return fare is entirely intentional, given the ticket is explicitly designed to get more people on the train during the closure of the line.

It is a relatively new product, which will explain why ticket offices not in the immediate area won't have heard from it, but it should be available on their systems. That National Rail Enquiries is not up to date is unsurprising - there are many other glaring errors scattered throughout their rovers and rangers pages.

 

[BlueFox]

this is well advertised.

Where?

 

[Iskra]

I'm puzzled where all this confusion is coming from. It is without doubt that the Settle-Carlisle day ranger is valid at anytime (save for the usual railcard restrictions which may be in place)and this is well advertised. It is by no means an uncommon ticket, and you will have no issues with any of the guards along the route. That it undercuts the return fare is entirely intentional, given the ticket is explicitly designed to get more people on the train during the closure of the line.

It is a relatively new product, which will explain why ticket offices not in the immediate area won't have heard from it, but it should be available on their systems. That National Rail Enquiries is not up to date is unsurprising - there are many other glaring errors scattered throughout their rovers and rangers pages.

I disagree that it's well advertised!

I rang the NRE ticketing helpline and they hadn't heard of it and then went to a Northern ticket office where they also hadn't heard of it and couldn't advise the correct restrictions.

I agree that guards on the S&C will know the ticket and it's restrictions. My concern is the barrier staff at Leeds. Barrier staff aren't trained to the same extent as guards, don't receive the same communications and at Leeds also have an unsavoury and know it all attitude- that is why I was concerned. The restrictions on this ticket directly contradict the normal 0845 restrictions, so you can see why someone might refuse to let you through the barrier...

 

[Houghj40]

Update as of 6th Feb. Buses now laid on from Carlisle

A very limited number of tickets with seat reservations are available for the 0825 Appleby-Skipton (Tuesday and Thursday) and 1715 Skipton-Appleby services (each day).

Additional buses are being made available for travel between Carlisle, Armathwaite, Lazonby, Langwathby to connect with the 0825 Appleby to Skipton service. A direct Carlisle-Appleby bus will leave Carlisle at 0710. Another bus will pick up at the following times – Carlisle 0655, Armathwaite 0720, Lazonby 0735, Langwathby 0745.