Northern Temporary Timetable from 4th June

[jizzer]

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Sorry if this is on the wrong thread, but Northern stopping trains from Manchester to Crewe are still missing out Manchester Airport, reason given "high track temperatures". What does this even mean, and how are folks arriving at the airport supposed to get to Wilmslow or Crewe? Seven trains in a row are scheduled to do this today - it's described as "minor disruption"! It's been going on for weeks and trains just seem to wait time at Styal! Trains from Crewe are following the normal route.

It's to do with heat expantion with the set of points at I believe Heald Green west junction in the down direction. They are locked for the route to Heald Green from the airport as when they are set for Styal there is a problem with them due to heat expansion. It's usually comes in to force between 1300-2000. It doesn't effect trains from Styal to the Piccadilly via the airport.

 

[geoffk]

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It's to do with heat expansion with the set of points at I believe Heald Green west junction in the down direction. They are locked for the route to Heald Green from the airport as when they are set for Styal there is a problem with them due to heat expansion. It's usually comes in to force between 1300-2000. It doesn't effect trains from Styal to the Piccadilly via the airport.

Thanks for the explanation but there's nothing on Northern's website to help travellers arriving at the Airport get to Wilmslow etc. All they will see is "Crewe cancelled". And how long is this going on for? Surely the points can be fixed.

 

[jizzer]

It is implemented when the track temperature gets to a certain level, so if the current weather continues through August, so will the restriction. It probably could be fixed, but would cost Networks Rail tens of thousands of pounds with materials, possessions and bus replacement during the possession. The next time there is any major work on at the airport which involves a 24 hr possession they should look at the possibility of doing the work then. But this is Network Rail we are talking about who whem the Crewe line was shut for 2/3 months a few years ago to make it bi-directional didnt even do any de-veg work on the line during the closure.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

NRE now has details of the Northern service from 30 July.
Apparently only 75% of the cancelled trains since 20 May will be reinstated, with the rest not till September.
This seems like an under-shooting of the target they set themselves.
I hadn't seen any discussion of this.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/today.aspx

At the beginning of June, Northern removed 168 services per day from their timetable.
On 30 July, 75% of these services will be reinstated. The remaining 25% will be reintroduced in September.

 

[Greybeard33]

NRE now has details of the Northern service from 30 July.
Apparently only 75% of the cancelled trains since 20 May will be reinstated, with the rest not till September.
This seems like an under-shooting of the target they set themselves.
I hadn't seen any discussion of this.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/today.aspx

Northern has had an explanation/justification on its website for a number of days:

Rail North Partnership (RNP) asked the rail industry to assess and recommend options to improve the reliability of services for customers from the end of Northern’s interim timetable, which finishes on Sunday 29 July. RNP manages the Northern and TransPennine Express (TPE) franchises on behalf of Transport for the North and the Department for Transport.

RNP approved the industry’s recommendation which included the option of a phased reintroduction of all services. This phasing enables the industry to focus on further service improvement work across Greater Manchester.

Northern, which removed 6% of services (168 a day) from its timetable on 4 June, will reinstate 75% of these from 30 July, and introduce the remaining 25% in September.

David Brown, Managing Director, Northern said: (snip)

"Whilst we are ready to reintroduce all 168 daily services, given the need to drive further improvements across Manchester, we have agreed to a more gradual reintroduction of our services. A phased introduction is the right approach to ensure a more stable and reliable service for customers."

https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/temporary-timetables

The service reintroductions delayed until September are:

• Blackpool South to Colne - 13 services daily
• Ormskirk to Preston - 6
• Blackburn to Southport - 6
• Kirkby to Victoria - 6
• Victoria to Stalybridge - 12
• Lime Street to Oxford Road - 4
• Lime Street to Warrington Bank Quay - 15

Total 62 services daily. By my maths this is actually 36.9% of the 168 services currently removed! Northern's 25% figure excludes the Lime Street cancellations, presumably on the basis that they are due to the on-going Lime Street works rather than Northern's driver availability.

Northern will operate the full timetable on all other routes from Monday 30 July.

Edit: Lime Street cancellations added.

 

[geoffk]

Northern has had an explanation/justification on its website for a number of days:

https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/temporary-timetables

The service reintroductions delayed until September are:

• Blackpool South to Colne - 13 services daily
• Ormskirk to Preston - 6
• Blackburn to Southport - 6
• Kirkby to Victoria - 6
• Victoria to Stalybridge - 12

Total 43 services daily. By my maths this is actually 25.6% of the 168 services currently removed.

Northern will operate the full timetable on all other routes from Monday 30 July.

I don't see any mention of Blackpool - Liverpool.

 

[geoffk]

It is implemented when the track temperature gets to a certain level, so if the current weather continues through August, so will the restriction. It probably could be fixed, but would cost Networks Rail tens of thousands of pounds with materials, possessions and bus replacement during the possession. The next time there is any major work on at the airport which involves a 24 hr possession they should look at the possibility of doing the work then. But this is Network Rail we are talking about who whem the Crewe line was shut for 2/3 months a few years ago to make it bi-directional didnt even do any de-veg work on the line during the closure.

Thanks for the explanation. There needs to be better information for those travelling from the airport towards Crewe.

 

[nw-sparks]

Northern has had an explanation/justification on its website for a number of days:

https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/temporary-timetables

The service reintroductions delayed until September are:

• Blackpool South to Colne - 13 services daily
• Ormskirk to Preston - 6
• Blackburn to Southport - 6
• Kirkby to Victoria - 6
• Victoria to Stalybridge - 12

Total 43 services daily. By my maths this is actually 25.6% of the 168 services currently removed.

Northern will operate the full timetable on all other routes from Monday 30 July.

What about

The following Liverpool services will be reintroduced on Monday 3 September:
Liverpool to Manchester Oxford Road (4 services)
Liverpool to Warrington Bank Quay (15 services)
​

from the same page?

 

[TUC]

NRE now has details of the Northern service from 30 July.
Apparently only 75% of the cancelled trains since 20 May will be reinstated, with the rest not till September.
This seems like an under-shooting of the target they set themselves.
I hadn't seen any discussion of this.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/today.aspx

Northern don't seem to appreciate that their network issues are not just about Manchester's concerns.

 

[Greybeard33]

I don't see any mention of Blackpool - Liverpool.

RTT confirms Blackpool to Liverpool services are scheduled to be restored next week.

What about

The following Liverpool services will be reintroduced on Monday 3 September:
Liverpool to Manchester Oxford Road (4 services)
Liverpool to Warrington Bank Quay (15 services)
​

from the same page?

OP corrected. IIRC the original version of that page did not include the details of those Liverpool cancellations. Northern seems to try to justify excluding them from its 25% figure by putting them in a different section titled Liverpool Lime Street Reopening. The argument presumably being that they cannot be reinstated until all the platforms are available, so the cancellations are not related to the timetable issues.

 

[js1000]

I assume the south Manchester shuttle stoppers from the Airport to Piccadilly will be extended to Lime Street as all services were before the amended timetable?

At the moment the half hourly services alternate between a service from Crewe to Liverpool South Parkway and Manchester Airport to Piccadilly.

It has worked better and given the Piccadilly 13/14 to Oxford Road/Styal Line some much needed flexibility, although punctuality is still well down on how it was before new timetable came in.

 

[Greybeard33]

I assume the south Manchester shuttle stoppers from the Airport to Piccadilly will be extended to Lime Street as all services were before the amended timetable?

At the moment the half hourly services alternate between a service from Crewe to Liverpool South Parkway and Manchester Airport to Piccadilly.

It has worked better and given the Piccadilly 13/14 to Oxford Road/Styal Line some much needed flexibility, although punctuality is still well down on how it was before new timetable came in.

Yes, the Northern services on the Airport line revert to the full timetable w/c 30 July, i.e. 1tph Blackpool N via Wigan NW (319), 1tph Preston and/or Barrow via Bolton (185 or 15x), 1tph Lime Street via Warrington Central (15x) and 1tph from Crewe to Lime Street via Newton-le-Willows stopper (319).

This week it is actually the Crewe stoppers that are terminating at Piccadilly; also some of the Blackpool services are cancelled.

 

[nw-sparks]

Half the trains between Liverpool and Wigan on Sunday 12th have just been cancelled, same as last week.

 

[Starmill]

Half the trains between Liverpool and Wigan on Sunday 12th have just been cancelled, same as last week.

And all trains on Liverpool Lime Street <> Manchester Airport services.

And quite a few more besides...

Northern has announced the removal of some services in the North West this Sunday. The areas most affected will be: Liverpool, Greater Manchester and Lancashire. We would like to apologise to customers whose plans and journeys will be disrupted. Further information can be found via our website here:- http://bit.ly/2B1schS

Details of planned cancellations for Sunday 12 August are as follows:-

• Liverpool – Manchester Airport – full cancellation (30 services).
Northern customers will still be able to travel between Liverpool and Manchester using Northern’s hourly service via Warrington or East Midlands Trains hourly services. TransPennine Express services are also available between Manchester Piccadilly and Manchester Airport. Tickets will be accepted by TransPennine Express, East Midlands Trains, Arriva Trains Wales and Metrolink.

• Wigan North Western – Liverpool – 50% of services cancelled
Northern will still operate one service per hour between Liverpool Lime Street and Wigan North Western. Customers can also travel on other Northern hourly services including Blackpool to Liverpool.

• Blackpool South – Colne
Northern will operate one train every two hours between Blackpool South and Colne and where possible, customers are advised to travel to and from Blackpool North. Rail replacement services will also be available.

• Lancaster – Morecambe
There will be two part cancellations between Morecambe and Heysham Port. Taxis will be provided for customers travelling between the port and Lancaster.

• Manchester Piccadilly – Hazel Grove
Customers advised to travel on other Northern services between Manchester and Buxton.

• Southport – Wigan - Manchester – Blackburn
Services will be split and operated in two parts as follows:
• Train service: Wigan – Southport and Manchester Victoria – Blackburn (via Todmorden)
Customers to travel between Wigan and Manchester by the following alternatives:
• Other rail services between Manchester Piccadilly and Wigan (Northern’s Manchester Airport – Blackpool)
• Rail Replacement buses will continue to run between Manchester Victoria and Wigan as part of planned engineering work.

 

[geoffk]

Northern has had an explanation/justification on its website for a number of days:

https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/temporary-timetables

The service reintroductions delayed until September are:
Blackpool South to Colne - 13 services daily

• Ormskirk to Preston - 6
• Blackburn to Southport - 6
• Kirkby to Victoria - 6
• Victoria to Stalybridge - 12
• Lime Street to Oxford Road - 4
• Lime Street to Warrington Bank Quay - 15

Victoria - Stalybridge is still only hourly off-peak. Anyone know why these missing trains have still not been reinstated - is it staff shortage or no spareplatforms at Victoria? Is there a list anywhere of trains still "missing" from the May timetable?

 

[_toommm_]

Victoria - Stalybridge is still only hourly off-peak. Anyone know why these missing trains have still not been reinstated - is it staff shortage or no spareplatforms at Victoria? Is there a list anywhere of trains still "missing" from the May timetable?

It can't be lack of spare platforms otherwise those services would not have been put into the timetable in May - while there may be one or two hitches up and down the network as I'm sure you can imagine a massive glitch like this would not get past 99% of timetable planners.

I merely suspect it's down to the lack of train crew - while this spur is rather short in terms of mileage, as I'm sure you know, the wait times at Stalybridge are quite large thus pushing up the amount of crew required, and it's extremely susceptible to delays due to TPE continually running late on that corridor meaning the Northern train becomes the last priority 99% of the time.

 

[geoffk]

Victoria - Stalybridge is still only hourly off-peak. Anyone know why these missing trains have still not been reinstated - is it staff shortage or no spareplatforms at Victoria? Is there a list anywhere of trains still "missing" from the May timetable?

Leeds - Southport only running to/from Wigan Wallgate today; anyone know why?

 

[175001]

Level crossing renewal work limiting trains to one an hour on the Southport line for a few days

 

[geoffk]

Level crossing renewal work limiting trains to one an hour on the Southport line for a few days

OK thanks. I thought maybe upgrading the line between Southport to Meols Cop, currently 20 mph limit I believe.

 

[js1000]

I'd rather they just omit a couple services from the timetable through Manchester so there is some spare capacity to absorb delays. Similar to the Stalybridge/TPE situation which is common sense given the risk of TPE holding up Northern services and train crew elsewhere.

The punctuality rate through Piccadilly in the morning isn't great - in the evening it's ridiculous. The delays are massive but if something goes wrong (on average it's once a week - signal/points fault etc) in the North West the whole system goes to pot.

https://www.recenttraintimes.co.uk/Home/Search?Op=Srch&Fr=Manchester+Piccadilly+(MAN)&To=Mauldeth+Road+(MAU)&TimTyp=A&TimDay=4p&Days=Wk&TimPer=4w&dtFr=03/10/2018&dtTo=31/10/2018&ShwTim=AvAr&MxArCl=5&TOC=All&ArrSta=5&MetAvg=Mea&MetSpr=RT&MxScDu=&MxSvAg=10&MnScCt=2