Northern Ticket Machine Update Issues

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northernman

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One thing I don't get is why they are most popular *tickets*. Because the ticket required will vary by time of day, it would make more sense, as is the case on Shere machines, for it instead to be most popular *destinations*, with the ticket type selected after that.

Hi, its based on analysis of sales from that origin, and the machine can show different tickets depending on peal, off peak, so the most would be AM peak, off peak, PM peak, PM off peak. The updates rolling out in the next we or so will cover that. Clearly we are limited to how many buttons we can show on one screen, but hopefully this will be much more useful
 
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Killingworth

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Hi, there will be a further update to all machines in the next week

Thanks for that. If I hadn't taken a photo this morning I might not have been believed for what I'd reported - but seems the latest change has been reversed and we're back to where we were again! Little by little, we'll get there.

IMG_20191025_163202.jpg
 

Andyh82

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Prompted by new posts in this thread I've just checked Dore & Totley and, yes, the TVM has a new list of quick select options.

The most popular destinations for commuters are 44% Manchester, 22% Sheffield, comparative distances almost 40 miles and a little over 4 miles. Many of these users book online or use season tickets. Sheffield is the destination for about half of leisure users during the rest of the day and at weekends.

Maybe there's something missing on this screen, and note something else. Manchester anytime single appears twice. Sheffield return isn't there at all.

It’d be clearer if it was more obvious which tickets are singles, returns etc, as so many options just bamboozle the customer.

I don’t know why they can’t have a grid of fares, destinations down the left, and then pressable buttons on the right, for single, day return, any time return, and then first class options if appropriate with each type of fare being a different colour button.
 

xotGD

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The daftest unnecessary option has to be that after I have pressed the various buttons to say that I want a return, leaving now, coming back today (and then had the faff of selecting trains), I then have to choose between a Day Return or the more expensive option of two singles.
 

Killingworth

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The daftest unnecessary option has to be that after I have pressed the various buttons to say that I want a return, leaving now, coming back today (and then had the faff of selecting trains), I then have to choose between a Day Return or the more expensive option of two singles.

The intention is to persuade regular users that online ticketing options are the way to go. Fingers crossed the ones being used now* work all the way for both of us.

*EDIT never had to show them at any point on either journey
 
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alansmithee

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The software upgrades to these have been a disaster - every morning I watch people give up on buying a ticket because the machines are simply too complex to use. Even if you can use them you often end up punching the machine to get it to understand your selection...
 

Dr Hoo

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At Hope this morning the machine was showing ‘out of service’ and ‘please wait’. (These messages were practically invisible because since the clock change the sun totally washes out the screen anyway but let’s not go there again.)
Despite the train being 10’ late waiting passengers were still waiting with no sign of progress.
However the green ‘light bar’ happily stayed on the whole time. I thought that this was supposed to change colour for the information of guards.
Way to go...
 

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clagmonster

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The Promise to Pay button at Horsforth was greyed out yesterday whilst the booking office was closed.

Another two trips required there then - one for the PTP, the other for a platform ticket.
 

DaveB10780

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If someone from Northern still reads these pages please PM me and explain why Manchester and Stockport are not popular weekly season tickets from Furness Vale. If possible please also send me details of the algorithm used to bring up the list. I have attached a screenshot of the stations listed.
 

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geoffk

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If someone from Northern still reads these pages please PM me and explain why Manchester and Stockport are not popular weekly season tickets from Furness Vale. If possible please also send me details of the algorithm used to bring up the list. I have attached a screenshot of the stations listed.
Todmorden is not a "popular destination" from Littleborough, yet Dewsbury is.
 

Killingworth

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If someone from Northern still reads these pages please PM me and explain why Manchester and Stockport are not popular weekly season tickets from Furness Vale. If possible please also send me details of the algorithm used to bring up the list. I have attached a screenshot of the stations listed.

Similar issue at Dore & Totley with latest update. We're on the Hope Valley line but where are the Hope Valley stations?

IMG_20191120_163958.jpg

Chesterfield means going into Sheffield to come back out again. There might be as many as 2 passengers doing that on some days. Stockport does have peak hour direct services, but few go there either. There are direct trains to Meadowhall, but not at times that are helpful for shoppers or shop workers (TPE services for Manchester bound commuters).

It used to offer Leeds, a destination for 10% of commuters, but no more. Northern guards collect too small a proportion of revenue on the Hope Valley line where all stations have only a single ticket machine on one platform.
 

Bantamzen

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Just as a matter of interest, and because I genuinely don't know, are any of those examples above at stations that are covered by PTE tickets? Because if I were asked to program a "favourites" screen, the obvious choice would be the most popular tickets bought from that TVM. This would not cover, and indeed for most PTE areas could not include favourite journeys used on PTE tickets, as there would not be sufficient robust data to support it. Of course you could assume what the top ten favourites routes would be, but these might not actually reflect what people would be purchasing from TVMs.

Now I assume that Northern's and others are programmed similarly, though perhaps if the chap from Northern passes by he could clarify the intention of the software (I don't expect to see the actual algorithms)?
 

DaveB10780

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Just as a matter of interest, and because I genuinely don't know, are any of those examples above at stations that are covered by PTE tickets? Because if I were asked to program a "favourites" screen, the obvious choice would be the most popular tickets bought from that TVM. This would not cover, and indeed for most PTE areas could not include favourite journeys used on PTE tickets, as there would not be sufficient robust data to support it. Of course you could assume what the top ten favourites routes would be, but these might not actually reflect what people would be purchasing from TVMs.

Now I assume that Northern's and others are programmed similarly, though perhaps if the chap from Northern passes by he could clarify the intention of the software (I don't expect to see the actual algorithms)?
My station, Furness Vale, is just outside the PTE area and I would be very surprised if Manchester isn't quite popular since it is at the end of the line. It should be fixed at the top. By the way don't get me started about the complications of living just outside a PTE with all the added complications of peak vs non-peak times for casual users (we can travel off peak in the afternoon into/return from Manchester but not from the next station up the line but does the TVM know that?????) etc etc
 

Bantamzen

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My station, Furness Vale, is just outside the PTE area and I would be very surprised if Manchester isn't quite popular since it is at the end of the line. It should be fixed at the top. By the way don't get me started about the complications of living just outside a PTE with all the added complications of peak vs non-peak times for casual users (we can travel off peak in the afternoon into/return from Manchester but not from the next station up the line but does the TVM know that?????) etc etc

Yeah you would probably expect it to be, so I couldn't say why it doesn't show up unless perhaps the regular travellers use season tickets? But even then you still expect it to show up with casual passengers, unless they are generally buying tickets online or onboard?
 

DaveB10780

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Yeah you would probably expect it to be, so I couldn't say why it doesn't show up unless perhaps the regular travellers use season tickets? But even then you still expect it to show up with casual passengers, unless they are generally buying tickets online or onboard?
I would agree that data is likely to be skewed on a very low use station and machine. Some of the destinations appear because of schools. However general common sense should prevail here I would have thought and a major city at the end of the line should be fixed in place.
Life was so easy before these unwanted machines were dumped everywhere now it is stress all the way for those who just want to get from A to B without hassle and are not "ticket savvy".
 

Bantamzen

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I would agree that data is likely to be skewed on a very low use station and machine. Some of the destinations appear because of schools. However general common sense should prevail here I would have thought and a major city at the end of the line should be fixed in place.
Life was so easy before these unwanted machines were dumped everywhere now it is stress all the way for those who just want to get from A to B without hassle and are not "ticket savvy".

It probably would make sense ultimately to fix perhaps the major destinations of services that run through the smaller stations, where as you say usage data may well be skewed.
 

Rail Ranger

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The TVM at Navigation Road has at long last recently been updated so that the "popular destinations" are stations along the Mid Cheshire Line and not the Calder Valley line.
 

TUC

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Surely it should be easy enough for Northern to know which are the most popular flow at a given station and individually programme each station's TVMs accordingly?
 

Killingworth

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Surely it should be easy enough for Northern to know which are the most popular flow at a given station and individually programme each station's TVMs accordingly?

It's possible to calculate the tickets sold. It's not easy to calculate how many are travelling without tickets, an issue on many lines without barriers of any sort.
 

thejuggler

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Travelling today on a 10am service I needed an anytime return as I would be returning after 5pm.

Only quick choice on the Northern machine was for an off peak return. I selected "other tickets" and despite four attempts using later times (thinking it was rejecting "travel now" as the train was only 10 minutes away) it kept telling me there were no tickets available for that selection.

I gave up, there is only one machine, bybthen 4 people were waiting to use it and I had to get to the other platform.
 

Bungle965

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I attempted to purchase a single from Mirfield to Huddersfield at the former location the other day.
This was the end result.
Sam
 

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setdown

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Yesterday evening I tried to buy a return at Lime Street for Liverpool to Manchester. After adding a railcard, the fare was only reduced to £12, not £9.70 like it should have been. Tried to go back a screen, then it crashed. Went to one of the Avanti ones instead.
 
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