Northern Ticket Machines

[northernman]

I picked up a Promise to Pay from Brighouse station on Sunday (I already had an e-ticket but I wanted a PtP for my little collection) and I noticed the format seems to have changed since the last time I've used a Northern TVM. How long ago did the format/wording change?

View attachment 123870

Hi, just recently as we will shortly introduce the ability for on train teams to scan the barcode for a quicker conversion into a ticket sale.

 

[Kite159]

Hi, just recently as we will shortly introduce the ability for on train teams to scan the barcode for a quicker conversion into a ticket sale.

Makes sense that

 

[Starmill]

I did arrive at Manchester Piccadilly recently as the guard was unable to issue a TfGM Wayfarer for some reason and bought one from the unpaid fare area just prior to the ticket gate.

The staff who work for Avanti West Coast at Manchester Piccadilly aren't authorised collectors for the purposes of Penalty Fares. Most of the TransPennine Express staff also aren't. Sometimes their revenue staff, who are authorised collectors, will be in attendance though. As a result selling a ticket is usually the only option if a train arrives on platforms 1-8. The same person arriving on exactly the same train in the same circumstances on platform 10 however could be issued a Penalty Fare.

 

[43066]

I picked up a Promise to Pay from Brighouse station on Sunday (I already had an e-ticket but I wanted a PtP for my little collection) and I noticed the format seems to have changed since the last time I've used a Northern TVM. How long ago did the format/wording change?

View attachment 123870

Does anyone know why this specifies cash payment only? Seems a little odd these days when many of us no longer carry cash.

 

[skyhigh]

Does anyone know why this specifies cash payment only? Seems a little odd these days when many of us no longer carry cash.

Because the idea is if you want to pay with card, you buy the ticket at the machine (which is exactly the same machine and process you follow to get the promise to pay coupon)

 

[gazzaa2]

A few weeks ago I tried to retrieve some tickets from a TPE station machine. Same problem, no response from the card reader. But when getting your preordered tickets printed you have to put card in and enter pin. Wasted journey. Made online complaint, reply 2 weeks later saying they would look into it. Utter Shambles. In this day and age the machines should always work.

Happens to me a lot. Enter my journey and go to pay and it just says "please remove card". Walk into ticket office and join queue.

 

[AMD]

Does anyone know why this specifies cash payment only? Seems a little odd these days when many of us no longer carry cash.

Because the machine will be a card only machine, so if paying by card you should be completing the transaction fully and getting tickets. For cash payments, the machine can't finish the transaction, and hence the PTP

 

[43066]

Because the idea is if you want to pay with card, you buy the ticket at the machine (which is exactly the same machine and process you follow to get the promise to pay coupon)

Ok thanks. And the TVMs presumably no longer accept cash?

 

[skyhigh]

Ok thanks. And the TVMs presumably no longer accept cash?

There's a very small number that take cash. If the ticket office is open or there's a TVM that takes cash, the option to print a promise to pay will be disabled.

 

[Kite159]

Ok thanks. And the TVMs presumably no longer accept cash?

I don't think those Northern TVMs of the type installed at Brighouse never took cash in the first place. Arriva must have worked out the cost & security issues with dealing with cash outweighed the 'benefits' of accepting cash at those TVMs at unstaffed stations.

Not the only area where stations have card only TVMs where passengers wanting to pay cash had to buy on board, Romsey in the days of GWR running the station & a few other TVMs in GWR land. In theory the Promise to Pay is a good system as it gives proof to where you boarded, just in case you do board at the last smaller station before major station,

 

[Llandudno]

Hi, yes we are working on it currently. Likely roll out in January.

Excellent will TfGM AND Derbyshire Wayfarers be available to purchase from a TVM?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Excellent will TfGM AND Derbyshire Wayfarers be available to purchase from a TVM?

Could certainly use GM Wayfarers also being available from Manchester Metrolink TVM's.

Instead, you have to first find a 'PayPoint' outlet and it then invariably takes several minutes for the shop assistant to locate the actual product on their till menu before issuing same (as I doubt they sell all that many!)

 

[plugwash]

Ok thanks. And the TVMs presumably no longer accept cash?

As far as I can tell, most of them never did.

While penalty fares have long been a thing on Merseyrail and in parts of the south, they only became a thing on Northern relatively recently (I'm struggling to find specific dates, but I think it was late 2010s).

Prior to the introduction of penalty fares, my experience is that most suburban stations had either no ticket sales facilities at all or a part-time ticket office with tickets being sold on the train, at the destination or sometimes not at all when no ticket office was available. I recall in my childhood seeing BR quickfare machines but I think these were largely gone by the time I started using the railway independently, I certainly never used one. There were some modern ticket machines around but mostly at larger stations (though I think Cheadle hulme got one for disabled acess reasons when the footbridge was built).

When it was decided to introduce penalty fares on Northern, virtually every suburban station got equipped with a Modern TVM. These were card only, presumablly for reasons of cost and security (TVMs at some stations getting smashed is apparently a problem even with card-only TVMs, it would be much worse if people knew there was cash in there).

 

[wilbers]

Could certainly use GM Wayfarers also being available from Manchester Metrolink TVM's.

Instead, you have to first find a 'PayPoint' outlet and it then invariably takes several minutes for the shop assistant to locate the actual product on their till menu before issuing same (as I doubt they sell all that many!)

Is it possible to buy those on the train if you get a promise to pay first (at a station within the area it covers)?

I've never bought one, but thought it would be a useful ticket for a day trip to some places on the eastern side of Manchester from here if its possible to buy one outside the area (more specifically at Penrith station, or on one of the Transpenine's to Manchester).

 

[plugwash]

I don't think there is anything stopping ticket offices outside the area selling it, but I have heard that sheffield refuse to do so (possibly because it is something of a loophole ticket on the south transpennine). I think guards are also able to sell it.

Promise to pay is only supposed to be offered if the ticket office is closed, and Penrith's ticket office seems to be open most of the time that people would be starting journeys.

 

[Kite159]

I don't think there is anything stopping ticket offices outside the area selling it, but I have heard that sheffield refuse to do so (possibly because it is something of a loophole ticket on the south transpennine). I think guards are also able to sell it.

Promise to pay is only supposed to be offered if the ticket office is closed, and Penrith's ticket office seems to be open most of the time that people would be starting journeys.

Sheffield ticket office are known to be bad at selling anything slightly unusual. Even getting a South Yorkshire Connect+ was hard work.

The machine at Penrith won't do "Promise to Pay" as that's a Northern TVM thing. I assume Penrith will be using the dreadful Avanti TVMs.

 

[wilbers]

It is an Avanti machine at Penrith - not one to use when in a hurry. From here it would be 2 tickets to be able to use a Wayfarer - the first ticket to Chorley.

The Northern ticket machine is so much easier to use than the Avanti one - I've used the one at Hexham to go to Newcastle sometimes, and its literally pressing a couple of options and then paying with card - takes seconds rather than a couple of minutes.

 

[156421]

I have found that at Whitehaven, when the ticket office is closed, there is no option to order a "promise to pay" docket from the TVM. Understandable when the office is open but makes no sense when the office is closed and discriminates against those who cannot pay by card.

 

[Llandudno]

Is it possible to buy those on the train if you get a promise to pay first (at a station within the area it covers)?

I've never bought one, but thought it would be a useful ticket for a day trip to some places on the eastern side of Manchester from here if its possible to buy one outside the area (more specifically at Penrith station, or on one of the Transpenine's to Manchester).

You can buy a TfGM Wayfarer on board a train from the guard but not a Derbyshire Wayfarer!!!

 

[rg177]

I don't think there is anything stopping ticket offices outside the area selling it, but I have heard that sheffield refuse to do so (possibly because it is something of a loophole ticket on the south transpennine). I think guards are also able to sell it.

Promise to pay is only supposed to be offered if the ticket office is closed, and Penrith's ticket office seems to be open most of the time that people would be starting journeys.

When I tried to buy one from Sheffield they told me that TfGM had demanded that they don't. This was mid-2018.

They sold me a single to Grindleford and to hope for the best when the guard on the TPE came round...

 

[johnnychips]

You can buy a TfGM Wayfarer on board a train from the guard but not a Derbyshire Wayfarer!!!

However, Sheffield station are very good a selling Derbyshire Wayfarers. They are placed in a transparent sticky card, which says ‘for bus and rail travel in Derbyshire’ which placates bus drivers who would otherwise be suspicious of a ticket on rail stock.

 

[Basher]

Local station at Kirkby Stephen, you cant see the screen on a morning for the sun, the machine faces south east.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

I picked up a Promise to Pay from Brighouse station on Sunday (I already had an e-ticket but I wanted a PtP for my little collection) and I noticed the format seems to have changed since the last time I've used a Northern TVM. How long ago did the format/wording change?

View attachment 123870

Its been like that for a while, from what I recall it was changed over sometime in June.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

I don't think those Northern TVMs of the type installed at Brighouse never took cash in the first place. Arriva must have worked out the cost & security issues with dealing with cash outweighed the 'benefits' of accepting cash at those TVMs at unstaffed stations.

Not the only area where stations have card only TVMs where passengers wanting to pay cash had to buy on board, Romsey in the days of GWR running the station & a few other TVMs in GWR land. In theory the Promise to Pay is a good system as it gives proof to where you boarded, just in case you do board at the last smaller station before major station,

The machines at Brighouse and most of the other unstaffed stations in the North have never accepted cash ever since they were installed but the machines at Mirfield and Brighouse have been vandalised in the past rendering them out of service, once had to take a photo of one to show the guard which would explain why I didn't have a Promise to Pay at the time.

 

[johntea]

@northernman Would it be possible to investigate why I can't seem to add a PlusBus to my 'basket' from a Northern TVM if I choose a valid 'anytime' day return (works fine with 'off peak')

If you would like an example, Castleford - Harrogate

Many thanks

 

[northernman]

@northernman Would it be possible to investigate why I can't seem to add a PlusBus to my 'basket' from a Northern TVM if I choose a valid 'anytime' day return (works fine with 'off peak')

If you would like an example, Castleford - Harrogate

Many thanks

Hi, I have looked at this, and Plusbus is offered from the Castleford TVM to Harrogate. Use the "Journey Planner" function from the home screen and select your destination, train and ticket in the normal manner, once you have selected your ticket then Plusbus is displayed as an add on, (see Cas2323 (1), select Plusbus and you'll see its added it ready to pay (CAS2323). Plusbus isn't currently available through the "quick buy" function, but I will look to see if we can add it.

 

[Howardh]

I use the app, but you still can't buy wayfarer or ranger/rover tickets, not even Northern's own "explorer" ticket. I assume ticket machines are the same, and with fewer staffed ticket offices that leaves the only option of finding the guard and buying one off him.

Have the machines been updated to sell those tickets yet? Admits - haven't tried for some while, so interested in the response.

 

[johntea]

Hi, I have looked at this, and Plusbus is offered from the Castleford TVM to Harrogate. Use the "Journey Planner" function from the home screen and select your destination, train and ticket in the normal manner, once you have selected your ticket then Plusbus is displayed as an add on, (see Cas2323 (1), select Plusbus and you'll see its added it ready to pay (CAS2323). Plusbus isn't currently available through the "quick buy" function, but I will look to see if we can add it.

Many thanks, I was going through the "quick buy" so that would explain it! (again though weirdly it appears through quick buy for off peak!)

 

[skyhigh]

I use the app, but you still can't buy wayfarer or ranger/rover tickets, not even Northern's own "explorer" ticket. I assume ticket machines are the same, and with fewer staffed ticket offices that leaves the only option of finding the guard and buying one off him.

Have the machines been updated to sell those tickets yet? Admits - haven't tried for some while, so interested in the response.

This was the discussion on Tuesday:

@northernman Will rovers and rangers be made available from the ticket machines?

Hi, yes we are working on it currently. Likely roll out in January.

 

[Howardh]

This was the discussion on Tuesday:

Thanks! Let's hope so and that every ticket is covered!