Northern timetable changes May 2019

Discussion in 'Allocations, Diagrams & Timetables' started by absolutelymilk, 19 Jan 2019.

  1. Greybeard33

    Greybeard33 Established Member

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    From RTT, the short Airport - Preston via Wigan workings from May until July appear to comprise a single diagram. Although these are pathed for a 158, the ECS workings at either end of the diagram suggest that the plan is for it to be worked by a 319. This will presumably stretch Northern's EMU resources to the limit, if all services on the Chorley line are also worked by EMUs.
     
  2. darloscott

    darloscott Member

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    They struggle to resource all the 319 diagrams now never mind putting extras in. Unless there is some 319s spare somewhere they can bring in for a few months. Presuming there is yard space on an evening to store them
     
  3. Mathew S

    Mathew S Established Member

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    I did see a 319/2 (didn't get the exact number) sat at Crewe yesterday, in the plain white livery, so it's not impossible that Arriva are getting in a few extra on the short term. Probably just wishful thinking, but you never know.
     
  4. NoMorePacers

    NoMorePacers Member

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    Given their current EMU shortage, they probably should keep their 321/322 fleet, and redeploy them to the newly-electrified lines, possibly taking some of Greater Anglia's units as well?
     
  5. Mathew S

    Mathew S Established Member

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    Certainly they shouldn't be allowing them to leave unless/until new stock is in place to replace it.
     
  6. darloscott

    darloscott Member

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    Can't imagine they would... after all they're using a 170 on a 321/2 diagram as they're stretched as it is now.
     
  7. northernchris

    northernchris Member

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    The cascaded units aren't making much of an impact going by the current levels of shortforming!! Although it does look like some of the extra services are being run by using units which currently sit idle between the peaks (such as extending the York-Preston to Blackpool) but this could put further pressure on already stretched diesel fleet


    There's some slack in the 323 fleet so it may be possible to get additional EMUs in service with some rejigging
     
  8. Thomas6187

    Thomas6187 Member

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    Going a bit further in to the new timetable, and in connection with some new sidings being built, Northern are going to start using Ardwick TMD to stable trains. This looks like it will start in September

    Northern at Ardwick TMD
     
  9. Old Yard Dog

    Old Yard Dog Member

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    Ellesmere Port to Helsby, Kirkby to Wigan
     
  10. agbrs_Jack

    agbrs_Jack Member

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    Congleton has a Sunday service but it's abysmal and should be hourly. I personally don't think ELP-Helsby really needs one. ELP has MerseyRail and Helsby has TfW (and northern from May). Kirkby to Wigan should have a service, maybe 1 tp2h.
     
  11. splashoutradio

    splashoutradio Member

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    Not sure if it has been mentioned already, but after looking at the new timetables, it appears the line between Wigan & Liverpool is to go from 2tph to 1tph on Sundays, when it loses it's semi-fast service. Possibly a way of addressing a lack of Sunday staff?
     
  12. adrock1976

    adrock1976 Established Member

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    Regarding "No Sunday Service", is/will that still be the case with Trafford Park, Humphrey Park, Chassen Road, and Flixton?

    I seem to remember it being Monday to Saturday service in the Great Britain Passenger Railway timetable book back in 1989/90 or thereabouts.
     
  13. Cheshire Rover

    Cheshire Rover Member

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    Helsby may also have Merseyrail after the new battery stock is trialled next year.
     
  14. js1000

    js1000 Member

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    The minor alterations to Manchester Airport trains from May during peak do make a lot of sense to be honest.

    At the moment, the 08:03 from Piccadilly arrives at Manchester Airport at 8:23. It then needs to leave the Airport at 08:28. The effective turnaround time is 2 minutes as 3 minutes is factored in for the driver and conductor to switch ends - it's such a ridiculous turnaround time considering the congestion problems through Manchester. Some much needed "padding" has been introduced, albeit not a lot, only a few minutes reducing the likelihood of having to skip stops and turnaround at Piccadilly.

    The peak time extension to Wilmslow for Liverpool to Airport train also makes a lot of sense as well. Wilmslow is a popular train station as the town is a major employer. It would represent one of the very few timetable improvements on the Manchester Airport that Northern have made since the new franchise started. The extension to Wilmslow also gives them the option of saving some time and turning around at the Airport if it is running late so there is some additional flexibility into that path.
     
  15. Jorge Da Silva

    Jorge Da Silva Established Member

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    https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/n...al-set-for-first-weekday-service-for-30-years

     
  16. Kite159

    Kite159 Veteran Member

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    Which it is, compared to Lea Road which is three quarters of a mile+ from the 'town centre' area, and has limited car parking available.

    They just need to be extended towards Barnetby next :)
     
  17. VT 390

    VT 390 Established Member

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    Will the new Gainsborough Central service mean that Gainsborough Lea Road's usage will most likely decrease?
     
  18. FelixtheCat

    FelixtheCat Established Member

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    The services seem to start quite late (08:16 is the first departure) and end quite early (19:12 being the last). So, any AM peak passengers into Sheffield won't benefit. Nobody going to/from Lincoln will change either. I'm not sure that there will be much of a difference.
     
  19. Jorge Da Silva

    Jorge Da Silva Established Member

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    and Cleethorpes :)
     
  20. Kite159

    Kite159 Veteran Member

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    One step at a time, you could probably get away with only needing an extra unit to extend to Barnetby where Cleethorpes will most likely need 2 extra units ;)
     
  21. Jorge Da Silva

    Jorge Da Silva Established Member

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    Surely Cleethorpes would get more passengers from Grimsby in particular.
     
  22. Kite159

    Kite159 Veteran Member

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    Purely as a crayonist, timetable it so the Northern service from Sheffield gives a reasonable connection to either the hourly TPE or the future hourly EMR Cleethorpes service. Not ideal but better than the current 3 trains a week
     
  23. Jorge Da Silva

    Jorge Da Silva Established Member

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    Cleethorpes I think would work better as people could then go from Grimsby Town to Gainsborough, and it provides a second service to Sheffield.
     
  24. Glenn1969

    Glenn1969 Member

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    Extension would also bring regular service back to Kirton Lindsey and Brigg. Is there anything preventing it happening?
     
  25. Bovverboy

    Bovverboy Established Member

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    Flixton (2017/8 estimated patronage 132,528) has had a Sunday service since May 2018 - all the Oxford Road stoppers call (I think) on a Sunday, on other days it's every other one, i.e. one an hour each way.
    Trafford Park (estimated patronage 54,870), Humphrey Park (34,866), Chassen Road (49,210), Glazebrook (45,432), Padgate (155,582), Sankey for Penketh (171,648), and Edge Hill (209,808) still have no Sunday service and are not scheduled to get one in the next timetable.

    Edge Hill is no doubt a special case, being a predominantly alighting (AM) station with probably limited potential Sunday patronage.

    West Allerton (101,296) seems to do best relative to patronage, with a 1 tph Sunday service and 2 tph on other days.

    As you'll see, some stations do much better than others.
     
  26. FelixtheCat

    FelixtheCat Established Member

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    Number of available units will be factor at the moment.
     
  27. tbtc

    tbtc Veteran Member

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    So we've got insufficient DMUs, insufficient staff, too many short-formed trains and too many conflicting movements to ensure a reliable timetable...

    ...and the answer is to use the additional trains (from cascades and from electrification) to run even more short trains...

    ...it's like a sit-com/drama character who keeps finding ways out of their problems but instead self-sabotages to make things worse because they lack the will to make the simple change that they need to.

    "Shall we use the additional DMU resources to run simpler timetables with longer trains? Nah, let's cram seven short trains per hour (with badly timed gaps due to the variety of destinations that they come from) rather than maybe four long trains per hour".

    I've mixed feelings here. Whilst I can see the logic in speeding up Lincoln services by having a "local" train taking up the stations west of Worksop (not a massive priority but I can see accept that the current Lincoln service is tediously slow), having the Gainsborough services split between two stations (some distance apart) might cause a few problems as well as solving other.

    Plus there's the issue that the forthcoming improvements to Doncaster - Lincoln (going hourly under EMR) will mean two trains per hour from Sheffield/ Retford to Gainsborough and two trains per hour from Gainsborough to Lincoln but (although the Sheffield - Central and Lee Road - Lincoln services share the same metals west of Gainsborough, they won't share any station.

    (also, if any resources are found for regular services through Brigg to Grimsby etc at a time when plenty of other Northern services are regularly cancelled/ short-formed/ inadequately short then I reserve the right to scream about prioritising luxury services over essential bread'n'butter work!)
     
  28. 158756

    158756 Member

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    They're between a rock and a hard place though. They've committed to addressing the poor frequencies of services in the north and are filling their pockets with billions of pounds of taxpayers money on the promise of these better services. Improvements are continually delayed, local politicians are clamouring for heads to roll. Time has run out - the excuses aren't good enough any more. It's no one's fault but their own if they don't have enough trains or drivers. The improvements must happen. If Northern fail to deliver they must be stripped of the franchise and it be given to a public sector body who will actually deliver.
     
  29. HullRailMan

    HullRailMan Member

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    How many billions of pounds have gone into anyone’s pocket exactly? What evidence do you have that a public sector body would have delivered any more in these circumstances?
     
  30. PR1Berske

    PR1Berske Established Member

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    But we all know that handing over Northern to the DfT, a lot of the same issues will still exist.
     

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