Northern to introduce evening peak restrictions

[muz379]

A lovely 156 to Whitby ?

No comparison

last time I went to Whitby there was a 156 tied up to a 142 , the 156 was a little busy the 142 was like a guards van just bobbing about on the back

 

[yorksrob]

last time I went to Whitby there was a 156 tied up to a 142 , the 156 was a little busy the 142 was like a guards van just bobbing about on the back

I must admit, I've never had a 142 on that route (yet - touch wood).

 

[yorkie]

Ah, the usual "no-one important reads this forum" claims again. Yeah, right, if you say so

 

[Geeves]

I ll still be able to sell a duo in that fashion outside of Manchester though !! try explaining that one !!

Im glad I wont have to!! The limits of Greater Manchester as far as they send me thankfully.

 

[Moonshot]

Ah, the usual "no-one important reads this forum" claims again. Yeah, right, if you say so

Maybe if you had a " petitions " section and then we all co signed whatever the topic of discussion was ?

IIRC - 100000 signatures gets a look at by UK PLC?

 

[muz379]

I must admit, I've never had a 142 on that route (yet - touch wood).

I must admit I felt sorry for the driver when we pulled into Battersby and he had to go and sit in the 142 on his own

 

[yorksrob]

I must admit I felt sorry for the driver when we pulled into Battersby and he had to go and sit in the 142 on his own

You never know, he might have appreciated a nice quiet journey

Often when units are doubled up around here, one of them is locked out anyway.

 

[muz379]

You never know, he might have appreciated a nice quiet journey

Often when units are doubled up around here, one of them is locked out anyway.

A few people did get in it at Mbr , but I dont know what happened with them after that .

 

[Moonshot]

You never know, he might have appreciated a nice quiet journey

Often when units are doubled up around here, one of them is locked out anyway.

I tend to lock both out in certain areas!!

 

[yorksrob]

I tend to lock both out in certain areas!!

Fortunately we're not that bad yet !

 

[Merseysider]

Am I correct in thinking the new restrictions will apply to both outward and return portions of the ticket?

 

[Chapeltom]

Undeniable fare rise and I cannot see the publicity hitting home within the month. Get rid of a few of the unimportant safety announcements at Picc and put in a 'From 7th September, Cheap Evening Returns will be withdrawn'. Not likely.

There is going to be confusion, anger and I can see a lot of guards having a lot of problems!

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Am I correct in thinking the new restrictions will apply to both outward and return portions of the ticket?

yes, that is correct.

 

[greatkingrat]

Am I correct in thinking the new restrictions will apply to both outward and return portions of the ticket?

Yes, as I posted earlier the restriction code is

OUTWARD TRAVEL
Valid on trains timed to depart between 0930 - 1600 inc and from 1830 onwards.
RETURN TRAVEL
Any train the same day except those timed to depart between 1601 - 1829 inc

 

[Starmill]

I can say for certain that the best way to get subsidy down is to encourage growth and sell more tickets. This is not the correct approach for the industry or the people and places it serves.

I will finish up here and say that I'm disgusted on a personal level with these changes. The services offered on some of the routes we are talking about are not at all good enough to justify any price increase, let alone one this large. If I were to abide by all of these new rules and not change my travel patterns, I wouldn't be able to afford all of the tickets that I'd like to buy - and I already don't buy some tickets because they are too overpriced for the distance involved.

The removal of cheap evening tickets, which I buy all the time, will be a particular blow. There's a good chance most passengers will begrudgingly accept the increase in price. There will be no headlines and no outrage and nobody to stand up for us. Buying a £5 train day ranger to make a triangular local journey of an evening would be a complete waste of money, so others would drive and I would stay at home. This is something that has always been good at encouraging the use of rail where there is an evening service because there wouldn't be many people on the trains otherwise. I can't predict the result on loadings, but I can predict lots of people being told they don't exist any more when they are already on the train.

The evening restrictions are a complete nightmare. They will not however, raise any more revenue. All they will do is create more and more confusion for passengers and conflict with staff, especially the contractors if they are asked to enforce the ticket restrictions.

The worst thing is I think some people will be put off by the attitude. Removing the tickets that made a night out affordable? Why bother with the train at all then... Rich man's toy.

For me personally, I have said a lot on here that the wrong tickets or no tickets are sold to me when I try to buy them. I've also said that a lot of the time my ticket isn't checked. We will have to see what happens after the changes, but I won't be spending any more money than I have as that's physically impossible. So good luck, to the DfT trying to 'raise revenue' out of me. But chances are I will still find a way to travel, it's what I do - and actually, the railway should just be grateful for that in itself, because most people only see rail as a means to an end.


This is the worst thing that could have happened to local rail fares at this time, and it will be entirely counter-productive.

 

[Moonshot]

I can say for certain that the best way to get subsidy down is to encourage growth and sell more tickets. This is not the correct approach for the industry or the people and places it serves.

I will finish up here and say that I'm disgusted on a personal level with these changes. The services offered on some of the routes we are talking about are not at all good enough to justify any price increase, let alone one this large. If I were to abide by all of these new rules and not change my travel patterns, I wouldn't be able to afford all of the tickets that I'd like to buy - and I already don't buy some tickets because they are too overpriced for the distance involved.

The removal of cheap evening tickets, which I buy all the time, will be a particular blow. There's a good chance most passengers will begrudgingly accept the increase in price. There will be no headlines and no outrage and nobody to stand up for us. Buying a £5 train day ranger to make a triangular local journey of an evening would be a complete waste of money, so others would drive and I would stay at home. This is something that has always been good at encouraging the use of rail where there is an evening service because there wouldn't be many people on the trains otherwise. I can't predict the result on loadings, but I can predict lots of people being told they don't exist any more when they are already on the train.

The evening restrictions are a complete nightmare. They will not however, raise any more revenue. All they will do is create more and more confusion for passengers and conflict with staff, especially the contractors if they are asked to enforce the ticket restrictions.

The worst thing is I think some people will be put off by the attitude. Removing the tickets that made a night out affordable? Why bother with the train at all then... Rich man's toy.

For me personally, I have said a lot on here that the wrong tickets or no tickets are sold to me when I try to buy them. I've also said that a lot of the time my ticket isn't checked. We will have to see what happens after the changes, but I won't be spending any more money than I have as that's physically impossible. So good luck, to the DfT trying to 'raise revenue' out of me. But chances are I will still find a way to travel, it's what I do - and actually, the railway should just be grateful for that in itself, because most people only see rail as a means to an end.


This is the worst thing that could have happened to local rail fares at this time, and it will be entirely counter-productive.

But rail is a means to an end, it does exactly what it says on the tin......gets people from A to B. I really cant see the point of travelling if there wasnt a reason to get to point B in the first place.

We get rail fare rises every year, usually RPI plus 1 or 2 percent etc...this just happens to be one which has to be absorbed by the minority of Northern Rails 250000 passengers a day from September onwards.

 

[yorksrob]

The worst thing is I think some people will be put off by the attitude. Removing the tickets that made a night out affordable? Why bother with the train at all then... Rich man's toy.

Absolutely. The Establishment complains that trains are a rich man's toy, then proceed to restrict availability to those very sections of society on the most restricted incomes.

Sheer lunacy.

 

[Merseysider]

Yes, as I posted earlier the restriction code is

OUTWARD TRAVEL
Valid on trains timed to depart between 0930 - 1600 inc and from 1830 onwards.
RETURN TRAVEL
Any train the same day except those timed to depart between 1601 - 1829 inc

I for one will be purchasing heaps of Evening Returns and CDRs as appropriate for the weeks I won't need a season (via Southern website for money back guarantee) before the changes come into effect. I'd recommend anyone else who would be affected by these changes to do the same.

 

[Starmill]

But rail is a means to an end, it does exactly what it says on the tin......gets people from A to B. I really cant see the point of travelling if there wasnt a reason to get to point B in the first place.

We get rail fare rises every year, usually RPI plus 1 or 2 percent etc...this just happens to be one which has to be absorbed by the minority of Northern Rails 250000 passengers a day from September onwards.

From now on, I'll just say 'I disagree'.

 

[Moonshot]

From now on, I'll just say 'I disagree'.

You can disagree as much as you like, but I can absolutely guarentee you that Northern carry 250000 passengers a day, and there will be ( as sure as eggs are eggs ) another rail fare rise in January like there is every year.

I can also assure you that when I travel by train tram bus or car, there is a reason for me getting to a destination. I certainly dont travel on trains in my spare time just for the sake of it, nor do I suspect the overwhelming majority of the UKs population. If you do though, then thats your choice , and I wont disagree on a choice you have freely made.

 

[yorksrob]

I can also assure you that when I travel by train tram bus or car, there is a reason for me getting to a destination. I certainly dont travel on trains in my spare time just for the sake of it, nor do I suspect the overwhelming majority of the UKs population. If you do though, then thats your choice , and I wont disagree on a choice you have freely made.

How would that be any different from any other leisure activity ?

Going to football match, the pub, a country house or a walk are the same as going to look at the scenery out of the train window or because you prefer a particular type of train.

They are all leisure activities, they all bring revenue to the railway, they all bring revenue to other parts of the economy and they are all likely to be price sensitive for a significant proportion of travelers.

 

[maniacmartin]

I don't think people will move to the car instead. If it was feasible to travel by car, most people I know would already be taking the car.
Some people don't own a car, or they want to go out drinking and thus won't be able to drive anyway. I'm sure a taxi will still be more expensive than taking the train.

I suspect that the extra revenue raised will more than offset the lost passengers

 

[TOCDriver]

The fact is that the country is becoming ever more over-crowded and the transport systems just cannot cope.

 

[Moonshot]

How would that be any different from any other leisure activity ?

Going to football match, the pub, a country house or a walk are the same as going to look at the scenery out of the train window or because you prefer a particular type of train.

They are all leisure activities, they all bring revenue to the railway, they all bring revenue to other parts of the economy and they are all likely to be price sensitive for a significant proportion of travelers.

Like I said, I dont see the overwhelming majority of the UKs population travelling on trains for the sake of it. If they did, the sales of Evening Rangers in the Manchester area would be sky high.....but they are not.

The other thing to bear in mind in all of this is that the imposed off peak time restriction of not before 6.30pm will actually ease overcrowding on peak services and move demand to an area of the railway which can absorb it.

 

[Starmill]

You can disagree as much as you like, but I can absolutely guarentee you that Northern carry 250000 passengers a day, and there will be ( as sure as eggs are eggs ) another rail fare rise in January like there is every year.

I can also assure you that when I travel by train tram bus or car, there is a reason for me getting to a destination. I certainly dont travel on trains in my spare time just for the sake of it, nor do I suspect the overwhelming majority of the UKs population. If you do though, then thats your choice , and I wont disagree on a choice you have freely made.

And you can continue to say what you like, I still disagree.

If I want to travel on a train for the sake of it, who are you to tell me otherwise? In fact, who is anyone to tell me I can't do that?

 

[Merseysider]

How would that be any different from any other leisure activity?

Going to football match, the pub, a country house or a walk are the same as going to look at the scenery out of the train window or because you prefer a particular type of train.

They are all leisure activities, they all bring revenue to the railway, they all bring revenue to other parts of the economy and they are all likely to be price sensitive for a significant proportion of travelers.

ALRs are there primarily for leisure use, correct? The continued existence of this product is proof that there is demand for it. Some people go on 'holiday' having saved up for an ALR. I completely agree with you.

 

[Crossover]

The changes are unfortunate and I think the most annoying is probably the Rovers - even London Travelcards don't have an afternoon peak restriction! Actually, on that, I wonder how the change will affect those with validity on buses and trams....

Overall it will likely cause more confusion and I dread to see the day we end up with a train advertised as "Off Peak tickets not valid" when, of course, for a longer journey that may be complete tosh!

last time I went to Whitby there was a 156 tied up to a 142 , the 156 was a little busy the 142 was like a guards van just bobbing about on the back

You weren't on the same one as me were you - the one I had back in June was doubled up. I got a table on the 156 though, whilst from Middlesbrough the crowds descended mostly on the 142 - goodness only knows why!

 

[Moonshot]

And you can continue to say what you like, I still disagree.

If I want to travel on a train for the sake of it, who are you to tell me otherwise? In fact, who is anyone to tell me I can't do that?

Read my post at 22.18......I said your free choice and I m not disagreeing with that.

I would also highlight that a few month ago, the rail industry introduced a new railcard called two together. If you havent got one, its a great way of getting discounted rail fares,

 

[Crossover]

I would also highlight that a few month ago, the rail industry introduced a new railcard called two together. If you havent got one, its a great way of getting discounted rail fares,

Some of us have better railcards at the moment - still doesn't help with some of these fares that a railcard doesn't help with though!

 

[maniacmartin]

Overall it will likely cause more confusion and I dread to see the day we end up with a train advertised as "Off Peak tickets not valid" when, of course, for a longer journey that may be complete tosh!

I agree. Even in the south east, many people believe that a train is either a 'peak train' or an 'off peak train'. I suspect that view is even more prevalent in t'North.