Northern Unit Refurbishments

[43096]

The 159/1s all went there.

And Chiltern 168s. And EMT's Class 158s are going through Brush for C6 and PRM work currently.

 

[47802]

Suggestions from elsewhere seem to think its serious and seen as a better prospect than a 230, it will interesting to see what the intention is, presumably it will be for a cheap? Bi-mode train rather DEMU?

Will Shooter get shot in the foot by his own idea but backing the wrong type of train?

 

[1179_Clee2]

Suggestions from elsewhere seem to think its serious and seen as a better prospect than a 230, it will interesting to see what the intention is, presumably it will be for a cheap? Bi-mode train rather DEMU?

Will Shooter get shot in the foot by his own idea but backing the wrong type of train?

Porterbrook have at least 50 Class 319's to reuse (12 are going to Northern) all have been through the works and had new loo's ect fitted for 2020 dissabliiy regs. It has very little chance or reusing them as EMU's as if any TOC wanted EMU's it could use other lease companies who also have lots of second hand EMU's, its crunch time for Porterbrook find a use for them or scrap trains that have had lots of money spent on them.

 

[notlob.divad]

If you were going to attempt it with anything, the 319 is surely a good one to attempt. This could potentially make the elusive 'Tri-'mode? 3rd rail, OHLE and Diesel or give the flexibility of any 2 of 3.

Porterbrook have at least 50 Class 319's to reuse (12 are going to Northern) all have been through the works and had new loo's ect fitted for 2020 dissabliiy regs. It has very little chance or reusing them as EMU's as if any TOC wanted EMU's it could use other lease companies who also have lots of second hand EMU's, its crunch time for Porterbrook find a use for them or scrap trains that have had lots of money spent on them.

If Porterbrook have spent money on units with 2020 mods done, why are Northern using units that have not had these. Surely if it came to scrapping them it would make sense for all to switch out none 2020 compliant units with those that have done the work and scrap the ones that are non-complient.

 

[northwichcat]

If Porterbrook have spent money on units with 2020 mods done, why are Northern using units that have not had these. Surely if it came to scrapping them it would make sense for all to switch out none 2020 compliant units with those that have done the work and scrap the ones that are non-complient.

Presumably it's down to the lease agreement. Northern took on the 20 x 319s to use from day 1 to the final day of the franchise and those have had some modifications - like the addition of PIS, removal of 3rd rail equipment, new floor and seat covers.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Suggestions from elsewhere seem to think its serious and seen as a better prospect than a 230, it will interesting to see what the intention is, presumably it will be for a cheap? Bi-mode train rather DEMU?

Will Shooter get shot in the foot by his own idea but backing the wrong type of train?

Shooter had a rival also wanting to take on the D78s to convert for mainline use. At that time there seemed to be little chance of lots of 319s going spare - as well as Northern there were options for them to go to Thames Valley, Southeastern, Anglia and South Wales but with GWR getting 387s instead, Anglia getting all new trains and South Wales wiring being delayed the options have been reduced.

 

[MatthewRead]

And Chiltern 168s. And EMT's Class 158s are going through Brush for C6 and PRM work currently.

Chiltern 168's don't need it they are post privatization don't you mean the 165's?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Presumably it's down to the lease agreement. Northern took on the 20 x 319s to use from day 1 to the final day of the franchise, others are being taken on to use in service from next year.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Shooter had a rival also wanting to take on the D78s to convert for mainline use. At that time there seemed to be little chance of lots of 319s going spare - as well as Northern there were options for them to go to Thames Valley, Southeastern, Anglia and South Wales but with Anglia getting all new trains and South Wales wiring being delayed the options have been reduced.

I know it's such a shame those 319's won't find, new homes:cry:

 

[1179_Clee2]

If Porterbrook have spent money on units with 2020 mods done, why are Northern using units that have not had these. Surely if it came to scrapping them it would make sense for all to switch out none 2020 compliant units with those that have done the work and scrap the ones that are non-complient.

Not only has Porterbrook spent money on getting the 2020 mods done they also spent money on them having a C6 overhaul or similar.
How much money are we looking at for a 4 car unit £500,000 or similar, buying and fitting a new toilet module wont be cheap, it is a lot of money to waste if the trains went for scrap.

 

[northwichcat]

How much money are we looking at for a 4 car unit £500,000 or similar, buying and fitting a new toilet module wont be cheap, it is a lot of money to waste if the trains went for scrap.

Presumably if needed the toilet can be removed and inserted in to a unit like a 150. I realise there's costs involved in doing that but the work and money involved in creating it in the first place wouldn't then be wasted.

 

[43096]

Chiltern 168's don't need it they are post privatization don't you mean the 165's?

No, I meant what I posted. I was replying to the original post that Brush wasn't a place where MU vehicles were sent. And with one reply about 159s going there I added 168s and EMT 158s.

 

[MatthewRead]

No, I meant what I posted. I was replying to the original post that Brush wasn't a place where MU vehicles were sent. And with one reply about 159s going there I added 168s and EMT 158s.

Yes but the 168's are already PRM TSI compliant where as the 165's aren't.

 

[alexf380]

Yes but the 168's are already PRM TSI compliant where as the 165's aren't.

I think they mean that, whilst it's not necessarily PRMTSI compliance work that was done at Brush, they were sent there for something else.

That's what I interpreted it, anyway.

Alex

 

[43096]

Yes but the 168's are already PRM TSI compliant where as the 165's aren't.

Well aware of that. The point that you are failing to get is around units going to Brush for work to be done. PRM is not really of relevance for the point under discussion.

 

[superkev]

This rumour about diesel powered 319s has surfaced several times before. The move to Brush could mean something more to it, or nothing.

I think if I was to dieselise any emu I would pick one of the 313 types which as well has being aluminium rather than rust has 8 motored axles.
A diesel 315 would be a true 750v/ 25kv/ diesel no mode.
K

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think if I was to dieselise any emu I would pick one of the 313 types which as well has being aluminium rather than rust has 8 motored axles.
A diesel 315 would be a true 750v/ 25kv/ diesel no mode.
K

40 years old, though, and really heading towards being due the scrapyard.

 

[1179_Clee2]

I think if I was to dieselise any emu I would pick one of the 313 types which as well has being aluminium rather than rust has 8 motored axles.
A diesel 315 would be a true 750v/ 25kv/ diesel no mode.
K

Why would you when Class 319's have had recent C6 overhauls and been fitted with 2020 mods.
319 427 currently at Brush was only released from Wolverton on April 2nd THIS YEAR after the above, its only been in service for 7 months since refurb .

 

[notlob.divad]

Should this rumour, really be moved to a thread of its own. Whilst it might be a useful turn of events for Northern in the future. It currently plays no part in the current franchise plan.

 

[Astradyne]

Why would you when Class 319's have had recent C6 overhauls and been fitted with 2020 mods.
319 427 currently at Brush was only released from Wolverton on April 2nd THIS YEAR after the above, its only been in service for 7 months since refurb .

Depends where it was refurbished to a 'Northern like new' condition, as specified in the tender agreement. If not, the old refurb may need to be ripped out and started again ... so may not make as bigger difference as you think .... accepted there will be some.

 

[507021]

Should this rumour, really be moved to a thread of its own. Whilst it might be a useful turn of events for Northern in the future. It currently plays no part in the current franchise plan.

Agreed.

Depends where it was refurbished to a 'Northern like new' condition, as specified in the tender agreement. If not, the old refurb may need to be ripped out and started again ... so may not make as bigger difference as you think .... accepted there will be some.

319427 isn't transferring to Northern.

 

[superalbs]

319427 isn't transferring to Northern.

Where's it meant to be going then?

 

[158722]

Should this rumour, really be moved to a thread of its own. Whilst it might be a useful turn of events for Northern in the future. It currently plays no part in the current franchise plan.

Agreed. When I first posted this as a rumour, I didn't actually think it has too much substance. From comments made elsewhere it does seem to however. 319427 is at Brush for evaluation to see if the concept if possible, with diesel engines fitted to the Driving Trailers. If deemed viable, another 3 units could be done.

Perhaps it does warrant it's own thread, given there is no confirmation of the unit going to Northern - although there is a suggestion that it may well be trialled with them.

 

[507021]

Where's it meant to be going then?

No idea I'm afraid.

 

[1179_Clee2]

Any news on if 150 275 or 155 346 are coming back from their holiday in Scotland or how 158 756 is going on ?

 

[superkev]

All seems far too quiet. Perhaps all's not well.
I heard a rumour that NR senior management where not happy with the 158 half done so far.
I hear it's had one or too mechanical problems since its return. Understandable as all that's been done has been cosmetic.
K

 

[Adam0984]

I think the next 158 to come back will have a few test runs out before it's unleashed on the public. The first 150 and 155 back won't see a passenger for a while after they return as they'll be on depot for a while whilst they check out the new tech etc then probably have a few test runs as well to make sure it doesn't have the same intro as 752 did

 

[1179_Clee2]

I thought I'd do a list of units similar to that in the GWR thread to keep track of what's been refurbished. I won't include the units that are leaving the franchise.

Units in red are in the Northern Rail livery or their former operator's livery.
Units in purple are currently being refurbished.
Units in blue are in the Northern livery and have received PRM modifications.

Class 150s:
150103, 150110, 150111, 150112, 150113, 150114, 150115, 150116, 150117, 150118, 150119, 150132, 150133, 150134, 150135, 150136, 150137, 150138, 150139, 150140, 150141, 150142, 150143, 150144, 150145, 150146, 150147, 150148, 150149, 150150.

150201, 150203, 150204, 150205, 150206, 150207, 150210, 150211, 150214, 150215, 150218, 150220*, 150222, 150223, 150224, 150225, 150226, 150228, 150268, 150269, 150270, 150271, 150272, 150273, 150274, 150275, 150276, 150277.

Note: Units with a star have received PRM modifications.

Class 155s:
155341, 155342, 155343, 155344, 155345, 155346, 155347.

Class 156s:
156420, 156421, 156423, 156424, 156425, 156426, 156427, 156428, 156429, 156438, 156440, 156441, 156443*, 156444*, 156448*, 156451*, 156452, 156454*, 156455, 156459, 156460, 156461, 156463*, 156464, 156466, 156468, 156469, 156471*, 156472*, 156475, 156479, 156480*, 156481, 156482*, 156483, 156484, 156486, 156487, 156488, 156489, 156490, 156491.

Note: Units with a star have received PRM modifications, credit to relevant thread.

Class 158s:
158752, 158753, 158754, 158755, 158756, 158757, 158758, 158759, 158784, 158787, 158790, 158791, 158792, 158793, 158794, 158795, 158796, 158797, 158815, 158816, 158817, 158842, 158843, 158844, 158845, 158848, 158849, 158850, 158851, 158853, 158855, 158859, 158860, 158861, 158872.

158901, 158902, 158903, 158904, 158905, 158906, 158907, 158908, 158909, 158910.

Note: 158906 is fitted with WiFi, charging points and a PIS.

Class 319s:
319004. (319005 also to come.)

319218, 319219. (in storage at Allerton TMD.)

319361, 319362, 319363, 319364, 319365, 319366, 319367, 319368, 319369, 319371, 319374, 319375, 319376, 319377, 319378, 319379, 319380, 319382, 319383, 319386.

319442, 319448. (319424, 319431, 319434, 319450, 319456, 319458 also to come.)

Class 333s:
333001, 333002, 333003, 333004, 333005, 333006, 333007, 333008, 333009, 333010, 333011, 333012, 333013, 333014, 333015, 333016.

Note: 333009 is presently stored out of service.

If anybody notices any mistakes, please let me know.

We are now 2 months on since this was originally posted and still nothing much has changed. Northern and its MD don't seem to be mind the lack of progress. Its now 9 months on since they started the franchise and not a lot has changed, what is going on? Does Northern know anything that is not out in public? or are they following the norm of what the North has had to put up with in the past (promise the world and deliver nothing)

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's still got Alex Hynes in charge. All babble, no substance. Nothing will change until the senior management does.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[TH172341]

It does all seem to have gone very quiet in regards to refurbishment etc. The 158 of course took long enough and hasn't seemingly convinced all - personally I think 158752 internally is pretty underwhelming. When compared the SWT Class 159s or ATW's 158s, the former two are far better.

Will be hoping the 150 is good - personally think the 150s need a Renatus style programme to bring up the standards; more in line with what happened with SWT's 455s.

 

[Mollman]

As far as I am aware even station signs have not received new branding, just the white sticker over the old Northern name.

 

[northwichcat]

As far as I am aware even station signs have not received new branding, just the white sticker over the old Northern name.

Hale has got new signs but they contain an advert underneath the station name.

 

[507021]

There was a Thameslink liveried Class 319 in Allerton depot this evening (at the Hunts Cross end) with all of its interior lights switched on, but I couldn't identify which one it was because it was too dark.