Northern's STM Security overkill

[185]

STM has some really awful staff, along with some absolutely excellent staff.

Quite proud to say that my employer poached some of their best staff.... staff who Northern Rail for years refused to give jobs to. It was only after three of their best staff left last year, they invited them for Conductor/RPI interviews... one went back but the other two replied to advise Northern HR 'where to go'.

Northern do themselves no favours using awful, crookedly managed contract firms and all they have succeeded in doing is spreading the disaster which was First North Western, who came up with the idea, to the other side of the pennines. Roll on franchise change, purely for this matter.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Northern do themselves no favours using awful, crookedly managed contract firms and all they have succeeded in doing is spreading the disaster which was First North Western, who came up with the idea, to the other side of the pennines. Roll on franchise change, purely for this matter.

It is rather worrying to hear that STM Security have connections to the criminal fraternity in their management structure. Now this is known, should their contract be terminated with immediate effect and the police be made aware of such misfeasances.

 

[Blindtraveler]

but will a simple change in franchise solve the issue? My fear is it woant and the area of the new franchise, which is geographically similar will gain a poor reputation in this respect.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

In what way is this intimidation?

I suggest that to the vast majority of law abiding citizens a police and staff presence would be quite welcome.

I agree, it's so intimidating for those who might not be playing to the rules. There is an easy fix there.

Those were my first thoughts.

Because Northern are absolutely obsessive. They have been known to take people to court over pennies of unpaid fares.

Hmm.

Self-opinionated passengers in the Manchester area have taken the Railway Company to Court over pennies of (allegedly) overpaid fares.

And lost.

We should be very cautious in forming sweeping generalisations from a tiny handfull of illustrations. All the moreso when they are not balanced with the equally rare but opposite illustrations.

 

[island]

I feel I have to make comment in this thread. It was mentioned a few posts ago how many Northern Rail shacks have no or limmited ticket vending facilities and this fact has caught me a number of times and on 2 occasions nowI HAVE BEEN TEMPERARILLY CRIMINALISED ON ARIVAL AT manchester. As a Visually Challenged passenger, a touch screen TVM is no help to me what so ever and being in effect penalised for my disabilitty is just wrong, to the point that its put me off traveling by rail from this TOCs unmanned stations and so now get the bus or a taxi if the journey is not planned to the point of being able to buy in advance.

I would suggest that booking assistance could be an option – if it isn't something you're already aware of. Even if buying on the day, many TOCs can sort something out on less than the official 24 hours notice.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I do as a rule do this even if less than 24hrs ahead and Northern in particular go out of there way where possible so full marks. However my 2 encounters with these individuals has been a short notice journey in the AM peek from an unstaffe shack with iether a TVM or Nothing. The guard hasnt got to me in time, often due to the service being multiple 142s and again, as its all a bit lastminute.com theres no assist at the other end making me a prime target for the Deliberate Ticket Evader Enforcement Squad. All very last century in terms of how travel should be a level playingfield for anyone who wishes to indulge in it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Its also worth pointing out that on both occasions Northern realised how hot the water they had landed in was and sorted things out with a promise to make subcontracters aware that things like this do occasionally happen however with the high throughput in the workforce, combined with the fact that as
A Northern Guard
in particular has pointed out 90 percent of these guys and girls dont give a flying youknowwhat and maybe? I dont know? Arn't blessed with much common sense iether makes solving a problem like this very challenging.

 

[Moonshark]

from the 26th Piccadilly will be in Lockdown regarding barriers so a mixture of all TOCs revenue protection will be there for the majority of the day for the foreseeable future we have been told..Let the games begin.

Will FTPE or EMT have any officers there do you know?

 

[ag51ruk]

Will FTPE or EMT have any officers there do you know?

Previously this has used VTWC, Northern, XC, ATW and FTPE staff - not EMT. Virgin have been doing full checks on their platforms for a few weeks now, they have been able to reduce staff numbers involved this week as there has been a very significant drop in the number of people arriving with no ticket - so it is working

 

[strowger]

The STM staff at the location with which I am most familiar swipe *all* cards on their Avantix mobile devices. The chip+pin devices are never used.

I thought "If these work how I think they work, the potential for fraud is substantial" and asked a friendly Northern guard about it. He didn't confirm or deny that but said "the thing about them is, that they have absolutely no morals at all"...

 

[AndyHudds]

I have had reason to contact Northern last week over the exact opposite of over zealous fare collection, in fact the exact opposite. I attended the Notts Forest Huddersfield Town game at the City Ground a week last Saturday, going down with a change at Kirkgate to the Nottingham service, no probs full ticket check after every station. On the way back, the conductor did check the tickets but let 3 young lads off as they had 'lost' their tickets fir their trip to Alfreton, I heard them joking with the passenger sat opposite that they hadn't even bought any in the first place. Changed at Sheffield to the Huddersfield service, get to Meadowhall standing room only, again I hear passengers saying they 'had no tickets' bug no ticket check!! In fact the ticket check didn't take place till after Barnsley, by which time the bulk of the passengers had departed their free journey!! The conductor on this service has a difficult job, especially after football games and with the shopping mall lemmings, also the small amount of time between stations doesn't help but for gods sake, its ridiculous how many people had a free ride.

Anyway, I got a pretty sharpish reply with a lot if platitudes as to how they were working hard to reduce fare evasion plus a voucher for two days free travel on their network.

 

[yorkie]

. On the way back, the conductor did check the tickets but let 3 young lads off as they had 'lost' their tickets fir their trip to Alfreton, I heard them joking with the passenger sat opposite that they hadn't even bought any in the first place.

How young roughly?

And did you inform the Guard of this? I've done so before ; the Guard was unhappy they'd lied to him bit grateful for the info. BTP met them at Doncaster.

 

[AndyHudds]

How young roughly?

And did you inform the Guard of this? I've done so before ; the Guard was unhappy they'd lied to him bit grateful for the info. BTP met them at Doncaster.

They were only of late school age 15/16 max. The conductor just took it without question, he just sauntered off back to the cab,its the conductors job to sort it out, he just didn't seem that interested, maybe he'd had a bad day.

 

[joke2711]

The TOC's do need to get that staff in order over this. Granted most are courteous and even helpful but others are just out to hassle and intimidate and they seem to be given a license to do this.

I regularly travel from West Kirby to Euston on a 1st class ticket. On arrival at Lime Street Lower Level, if with baggage I will take the lift to the concourse and this avoids the escalators and also any ticket barrier and check.

Three times in the past two months I have been greeted as I exit the lift by the same Merseyrail Revenue Officer (you wouldn't want to argue with him) and politely show my ticket. Each time, do you get a "thank you Sir - have a safe onward journey", No, You get a scowl and a look of annoyance that he can't Cop you so to speak. On one of these occasions, I went for a smoke before boarding my London train and he came out for a smoke as well.

Once he recognised me, the scowl appeared on his face again to my bemusement.

At least he keeps trying ...

 

[pemma]

Northern do themselves no favours using awful, crookedly managed contract firms and all they have succeeded in doing is spreading the disaster which was First North Western, who came up with the idea, to the other side of the pennines. Roll on franchise change, purely for this matter.

The franchise contract has a limit for payroll. The RMT demanding above inflation pay rises for their members (due to Northern Rail Limited reporting millions of pounds of profit) actually decreases the likelihood of in-house RPIs being recruited, despite the RMT also saying they want RPIs to be Northern employees.

DfT are happy with the revenue protection contract because Northern claims it brings in £2 for every £1 spent.

The next franchise will require more drivers and conductors but whether DfT will allow a significant number of in-house RPIs is doubtful, especially considering on some routes conductors will be relieved of door duties to focus more on revenue.

It is rather worrying to hear that STM Security have connections to the criminal fraternity in their management structure. Now this is known, should their contract be terminated with immediate effect and the police be made aware of such misfeasances.

Serco also run prisons.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Serco also run prisons.

Whilst that in itself is true, this was not the same line of thought that I was using when I made my posting, which referred to a totally different scenario of "connections to the criminal fraternity".

 

[455driver]

They were only of late school age 15/16 max. The conductor just took it without question, he just sauntered off back to the cab,its the conductors job to sort it out, he just didn't seem that interested, maybe he'd had a bad day.

So you couldn't be bothered!

The guard can only work on the information received, if you had given him the furthered information he could have acted on it but you decided to do nothing even though you had more information than the guard did.

Maybe you should look at yourself before moaning about the guards actions!

 

[AndyHudds]

So you couldn't be bothered!

The guard can only work on the information received, if you had given him the furthered information he could have acted on it but you decided to do nothing even though you had more information than the guard did.

Maybe you should look at yourself before moaning about the guards actions!

If they couldn't provide tickets, the conductor should have made them purchase some more tickets or ask them to leave at Langley Mill.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

If they couldn't provide tickets, the conductor should have made them purchase some more tickets or ask them to leave at Langley Mill.

Duty of Care

 

[andrewkeith5]

Duty of Care

Can be fulfilled by having them met by BTP, provided the guard checks the BTp are there.

Alternatively, I'm sure there is supposed to be a scheme to allow travel but bill the parents later but I can't remember what it's called! Can a penalty fare not be issued to a minor?

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Can be fulfilled by having them met by BTP, provided the guard checks the BTp are there.

Alternatively, I'm sure there is supposed to be a scheme to allow travel but bill the parents later but I can't remember what it's called! Can a penalty fare not be issued to a minor?

Have you tried getting the BTP to anywhere away from major stations recently? They are very few and far between. Duty of Care overrides almost anything since James Street.

 

[LowLevel]

In what universe do you clever folk reckon the BTP will ever turn up on what was probably a Saturday evening at Langley Mill, let alone Alfreton. The nearest officers are theoretically in Nottingham. They spend all of their time on Saturdays escorting football idiots and dealing with drunken thugs - they aren't going to be pootling into the next county to deal with a small scale ticket irregularity before coming all the way back again - the train any case having probably left the station before they reach their cars. You'll get BTP in that area at Leicester, Nottingham or Sheffield, if theyre not busy,with Derby if the moon is in the right place and Loughborough or Chesterfield if you get a full on blue lights required emergency.

 

[yorkie]

its the conductors job to sort it out,.

What do you mean by this? The Guard has responsibilities that are higher in the list of priorities (including, in this case, a duty of care due to their age - you can't just chuck them off), and if you are not prepared to give the information you had to the Guard then how can you expect the Guard to act?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Can a penalty fare not be issued to a minor?

A Penalty Fare cannot be issued to someone under 16, nor can they be issued to a passenger travelling on Northern. Also very few TOCs make Guards authorised collectors (it's considered bad practice).