Not allowed onto platforms without a train ticket

[455driver]

You do have a point. I do sometimes wonder what type of person goes crying to the local rag over such trivialities..

A self important one!

I do wonder about the conversation at the gateline-

Scenario 1, "I am putting my parents on the train open the gate"
or
Scenario 2, "Would it be okay if I escorted my parents to the train to see them off please"

I know which one my money is on.

 

[Clip]

You do have a point. I do sometimes wonder what type of person goes crying to the local rag over such trivialities..

The same as those who go running to the papers when they get collared without a valid ticket for the journey they are on I would guess

 

[sheff1]

You do have a point. I do sometimes wonder what type of person goes crying to the local rag over such trivialities..

It might be trivial to you, but if I had been prevented from seeing my mother onto the train at Sheffield for her journey home I would not have considered it trivial at all.

 

[455driver]

Would you expect to take her to the plane at the airport?

 

[wintonian]

It might be trivial to you, but if I had been prevented from seeing my mother onto the train at Sheffield for her journey home I would not have considered it trivial at all.

To them at that point maybe, but in the grand scheme of the workings of the universe less so, there being little if any effect on the likes of human evolution, the laws of physics or economic policy.

 

[PhilipW]

I suppose one could argue there's no point in a ticket barrier if you let people through without tickets! And, there's no actual need for people wanting to assist grandparents onto the train to pass through the barrier if there are sufficient staff to do the job

I would strongly disagree with this statement. When my mother (then in her 70s and 80s) used to come down and visit us, I felt it was my absolute duty to make sure that she got on the train in the right carriage and in her booked seat with her luggage sorted. Coming down from Lancashire to Hampshire this was a big journey for her.

Fortunately this was from a station where there were no barriers (and still aren't) so I never had a problem. Even if there had been barriers I still would not have taken too kindly to "handing her over" to a member of staff to look after her.

Looking after your mother in old age, that's what sons are for. Seeing her correctly boarded on long distance trains is part of that responsibility.

 

[455driver]

Sorry to repeat myself but-

Would you expect to take her to the plane at the airport?

 

[Bungle73]

Sorry to repeat myself but-

Would you expect to take her to the plane at the airport?

When we start having to go through border controls before boarding a train then you might have point.

 

[PhilipW]

Sorry to repeat myself but-

Would you expect to take her to the plane at the airport?

Of course not.

 

[Greenback]

Speaking personally, and with no particular axe to grind either way, I've never understood why there is a general necessity for some to see people off by going on to the platform with them.

Various relatives and friends have come to visit my family down the years, of all ages, and we have never accompanied anyone to the platform, even before barriers.

Is it a regional thing perhaps, or are we just rude?

(I ask this out of genuine interest)

 

[wintonian]

When we start having to go through border controls before boarding a train then you might have point.

I think that has just as much as having to go through security, and in this case you are not allowed past the gateline for security reasons apparently - so it's all the same thing really.

 

[Ediswan]

(I mean, would you go to a journo over something like this?)

Maybe, reluctantly. It certainly gets more attention than going to a regulator.

We don't know exactly how events played out. Only the reported summary. The person accompanying their elderly parents may have been as polite as could be.

It used to be possible for anybody to buy a platform ticket, from a coin-operated machine. without giving a reason. Today, in compulsory ticket areas, it is required that accomodation be made for "people who are not travelling ... if they have a good reason", which includes "railway enthusiasts". Something has got lost in the middle.

 

[sheff1]

Would you expect to take her to the plane at the airport?

As she always refused to fly - No

 

[swj99]

When anyone says it's for your security or for the security of our valued passengers you know it's a load of twaddle.

Have to agree there. As with so called health and safety rules, security is used as an excuse for organizations to do what they like, and is sometimes used far beyond what the rules were originally intended for. I would have thought a formal complaint to ScotRail would be appropriate here, in addition to a letter to DfT notifying them of a breach of their Penalty Fares Policy.

I notice there are several references in this thread, and in threads on other forums, to attitude. Why ? A person’s perceived attitude is often used as a justification to criticise them, subject them to a kind of character assassination, or as an excuse to treat them in a less than favourable manner, without anyone asking them, finding out what their actual attitude is, or even having a reliable means to assess it.

What’s the attitude test, is it an invisible questionnaire that you fill in on someone else’s behalf, so you can decide if you think they’re a muppet or not ? And if so, what qualification do you have that entitles you to do this ? The question of attitude is entirely subjective. An attitude is like a blood group in that you can’t know for sure what another person’s attitude is, unless they tell you. You can only infer, but you cannot know.

Measuring attitudes
Many measurements and scales are used to examine attitudes. Attitudes can be difficult to measure because measurement is arbitrary, meaning people have to give attitudes a scale to measure it against, and attitudes are ultimately a hypothetical construct that cannot be observed directly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attitude_(psychology)

 

[wintonian]

Is it a regional thing perhaps, or are we just rude?

Is that not the same thing? over there

But seriously though I think it depends partly on your upbringing, for me I would say you should accompany them to the station but you only need to help them on-board with luggage if they are getting a bit frail, however if the station staff offer too assist or are otherwise obviously able to assist instead then as that is their employment you should generally defer to them.

 

[Goatboy]

Speaking personally, and with no particular axe to grind either way, I've never understood why there is a general necessity for some to see people off by going on to the platform with them.

Because it's a nice thing to do.

 

[sheff1]

I would strongly disagree with this statement. When my mother (then in her 70s and 80s) used to come down and visit us, I felt it was my absolute duty to make sure that she got on the train in the right carriage and in her booked seat with her luggage sorted. Coming down from Lancashire to Hampshire this was a big journey for her.

Fortunately this was from a station where there were no barriers (and still aren't) so I never had a problem. Even if there had been barriers I still would not have taken too kindly to "handing her over" to a member of staff to look after her.

Looking after your mother in old age, that's what sons are for. Seeing her correctly boarded on long distance trains is part of that responsibility.

Agree 100% with this.

If my mother thought she would not be met and seen off on the return she would not have travelled. Some sons may think this would be a good result !

 

[SPADTrap]

If it was such an issue I wonder how they planned to help her off the train that they weren't travelling on.

 

[PhilipW]

If it was such an issue I wonder how they planned to help her off the train that they weren't travelling on.

By being on the platform to meet her.

 

[sheff1]

If it was such an issue I wonder how they planned to help her off the train that they weren't travelling on.

In my mothers case my sister would see her off and meet her on the return.

 

[Ediswan]

Is it a regional thing perhaps, or are we just rude?

No, just stubborn and self-reliant.

 

[Greenback]

No, just stubborn and self-reliant.

I suppose I was brought up to be independent and self reliant. We were not a 'cuddling' family!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Because it's a nice thing to do.

I suppose it is. But our relatives would probbaly have taken offence, declared they didn't need mollycoddling, and battered my father with their suitcase!

 

[scotsman]

News must be slow in Dundee. Well, it's not even news and a pathetic excuse for journalism.

Total non story.

Interesting how anything that reflects the railway badly in the media is a shoddy/poor/pathetic "excuse for journalism."

Is it timely? Yes. It was filed shortly after the event.
Is it relevant? Yes, Dundee station is the local station for many readers.
Proximity? Yes, the woman in question is from Dundee.
Is there a conflict? Yes, ScotRail refused to allow a woman to assist her elderly parents.

The only shoddy journalism comes from ScotRail's PR - all the bull in this article is attributed to them, not the journalist who wrote the story.

 

[Greenback]

I should say, by the way, I am not against people being 'seen off'! I think Scotrail have blundered on this one.

 

[yorkie]

If it's a compulsory ticket area then those are the rules, however I don't think there are many stations classed as such these days. Regardless staff are at liberty to refuse access to the station at their own discretion. I imagine it has more to do with the of suspicion ticketless travel rather than security though.

It's not a CTA, there are very few CTAs on the National Rail network (Scotrail have none and even SWT do not have any!). Where CTAs exist, part of the legislation covering them obliges operators to make provisions for passengers to access platforms.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Thats what i was looking for thank you get confused with stuff like this sorry, is there a list of CTAs anywhere?

In theory:

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/100956/response/268037/attach/html/2/120327%20L%20F0008550%20IR.pdf.html

For your information these locations listed below are the only designated compulsory ticket
areas on the National Rail Network.

Greenford TfL Station, All platforms
Maidenhead, All platforms and footbridge
Ealing Broadway, All platforms and footbridge
London Marylebone, Platforms
Gerrards Cross, Platforms and footbridge
Beaconsfield, Platforms and footbridge
Aylesbury, Platforms and footbridge
Birmingham Moor St, Platforms and footbridge
Birmingham Snow Hill, Platforms and concourse
High Wycombe, Platforms and underpass
South Ruislip , Platforms and underpass
Harrow on the Hill, Platforms and underpass and overbridge
Rickmansworth, Platforms
Chorleywood, Platforms
Chalfont and Latimer, Platforms
Amersham, Platforms

They missed the LO platforms at Clapham Jn though (or maybe they became CTAs after March 2012? I thought it was prior to that though)

 

[SPADTrap]

By being on the platform to meet her.

How do you see someone off and then meet them at their arrival? I'd hope someone else would.

 

[yorkie]

How do you see someone off and then meet them at their arrival? I'd hope someone else would.

That would be a sensible assumption. I was surprised to see you ask the question!

That's what happened when I did York to London alone when I was 12, and what happened when my grandmother travelled York to London (until that was deemed not satisfactory enough and she had to be accompanied).

Scotrail are either mistaken or lying when they claim it's a nationwide thing. Scotrail are the only TOC that I know of with that policy. Shame on them!

 

[Clip]

I notice there are several references in this thread, and in threads on other forums, to attitude. Why ? A person’s perceived attitude is often used as a justification to criticise them, subject them to a kind of character assassination, or as an excuse to treat them in a less than favourable manner, without anyone asking them, finding out what their actual attitude is, or even having a reliable means to assess it.

Because if you go down to the disputes part of the forum and on other forums around the internet specifically Moneysaving expert, every time someone is caught with a wrong ticket then the guard/RPI is always being rude and nasty and disrespectful. Which 9 out of 10 times just isnt true. So it stands to reason that some people on here, mainly ones who work in a face to face environment would question just that having come across people who are just down right rude from the start and get more so when they dont get their way.

By being on the platform to meet her.

I think you misunderstood his question, i.e who was at the other end to meet the person in this story? We dont know but often its a good question.

 

[yorkie]

...So it stands to reason that some people on here, mainly ones who work in a face to face environment would question just that having come across people who are just down right rude from the start and get more so when they dont get their way....

That can apply to both passengers and staff. I know well; I've witnessed such behaviour myself. In both cases, it is of course, a minority. But it's an avoidable minority in the case of staff, if proper safeguards & 'mystery shopping' were in place by the rail industry to ensure only suitable people obtained, and remained in, such jobs.

 

[Lampshade]

Would you expect to take her to the plane at the airport?

Would you expect to show your passport and go through baggage control at the station?