Not so Greater Anglia

[HH]

According to the latest NPS scores GA is now comfortably bottom of the "NSE" table. Of course the timing of the survey probably did them no favours, but they saw significant drops compared to last Spring (due to the seasonal nature of responses this is the best comparator) in overall satisfaction (5%), Punctuality/Reliability (5% and the biggest driver of overall satisfaction), valuue for money (5% and probably also heavily influenced by performance) and cleanliness inside the train (5%).

The cleanliness score I believe may actually be the result of the so-called "deep cleans". The fact that most of these units have not had a refresh in a very long time has meant that we've ended up with these cleans being more successful in some areas than others, thus exposing the true level of ingrained dirt; plus they have caused some of the coverings to come away. It is well-known that an internal refresh will give a massive boost to perceptions of cleanliness. The tired, old stock on GA is obviously seeing the opposite effect.

Oddly the single significant riser is a 5% hike in sufficient room for all passengers to sit/stand (if true means less commuters which could be hitting revenue).

Was winning this bid a pyrrhic victory for Abellio? Struggling on the revenue front, and with a whole host of problems that this stop-gap franchise was not set up to solve, they are in danger of sullying the hard-won reputation that they have gained from Northern and Merseyrail.

 

[CDM]

I was on one of the refurbished units today, it really is a cheap and cheerful refurb. One that will allow the units to keep limping along.

Oh and unless they have replaced the ceilings, I really had not remembered them as that colour, they must have been absolutely filthy.

Are you talking about 321's or 153's? On 321's there'll more being spent than you might give credit for. Repainting all the interior walls, replacing, repairing and painting seat shells and renewing ALL the seat cushions on top of the rest all ads up and those bits go beyond what they are actually committed to do in the franchise agreement. It is being billed as a refresh rather than refurbishment though so yes, I'd say it isn't meant to last forever and isn't fully comprehensive. The next franchise will surely have to do that and on the whole fleet (well due!).


Ceilings do get a clean, but they aren't changed and they probably aren't actually that dirty to start with. It probably does look a lot different I agree but that's probably a trick of the light from the light tubes being changed (different brighter colour light) and the flooring surface being a lighter colour reflective lino so more light gets reflected back up and around the carriage compared to the dark blue light killing carpet they had before?

 

[Pugwash]

Are you talking about 321's or 153's? On 321's there'll more being spent than you might give credit for. Repainting all the interior walls and renewing all the seat cushions on top of the rest all ads up and those bits go beyond what they are actually committed to do in the franchise agreement. It is being billed as a refresh rather than refurbishment though so yes, I'd say it isn't meant to last forever and isn't fully comprehensive. The next franchise will surely have to do that and on the whole fleet (well due!).


Ceilings do get a clean, but they aren't changed and they probably aren't actually that dirty to start with. It probably does look a lot different I agree but that's probably a trick of the light from the light tubes being changed (different brighter colour light) and the flooring surface being a lighter colour reflective lino so more light gets reflected back up and around the carriage compared to the dark blue light killing carpet they had before?

The 321's - I don't doubt they are beyond what they are committed to do, but passengers are not as stupid as the DFT.

 

[Blindtraveler]

And good on them for doing it!

 

[SprinterMan]

And good on them for doing it!

Damn Straight! NX didn't do it but GA did. :P

 

[NathanPrior]

More GA moans.

According to their own site theres no engineering work between London and Ipswich happening on 22nd September, as it shows on their site.

However, you search for the journey on that day and it comes up with engineering work, thus meaning London to Billericay by train then getting a replacement bus service to Witham then going from Witham to Ipswich on train again.

Can they do anything right?

 

[O L Leigh]

Can anyone else hear a barrel being scraped...?

O L Leigh

 

[SprinterMan]

Can anyone else hear a barrel being scraped...?

O L Leigh

My thoughts exactly
Leave GA alone, they aren't that bad :P

 

[Skimble19]

Considering all the minor gripes being brought up in this thread it's a good job you lot don't commute with FCC or this page would be longer than that old Grand Central thread that went on for days!

 

[jon0844]

All the problems with FCC seem to be down (pretty much) to revenue.

As a GN user, I have no complaints about their train or punctuality and most of the staff are very friendly and dedicated.

Most of the complaints on the TL side would more likely be down to Network Rail and the fact the line is one huge building site.

I do think it sounds like GA is going the extra mile, and should be commended for it. They're in a similar position to FCC in that there's only so much they can do themselves - and people will still blame them for everything.

 

[GB]

Can anyone else hear a barrel being scraped...?

O L Leigh

That sound you are hearing is the sound of scraping the floor having gone through the bottom of the barrel.

 

[O L Leigh]

Yes, of course. My mistake.

O L Leigh

 

[Skimble19]

All the problems with FCC seem to be down (pretty much) to revenue.

As a GN user, I have no complaints about their train or punctuality and most of the staff are very friendly and dedicated.

Most of the complaints on the TL side would more likely be down to Network Rail and the fact the line is one huge building site.

I do think it sounds like GA is going the extra mile, and should be commended for it. They're in a similar position to FCC in that there's only so much they can do themselves - and people will still blame them for everything.

my only real issue with FCC is cleanliness, or a lack of it. Once the new franchise starts then hopefully the trains will be deep cleaned etc.

 

[jon0844]

Really?

I think they keep the trains in very good condition (or did last year when I used the trains every day).

I've even seen the lady that does quality control checks on the trains - and she is VERY thorough, checking out all the corners and even rubbing her finger along the top of advertisement/route planner boards.. and noting it all down. I forget her name, but I used to see her quite a bit (suggesting she's out most days).

In fact, it's only later services that can become a real mess and I've been on a train that isn't cleaned at the turnaround, and they can be a real state thanks to selfish passengers (the last example was someone who had eaten fried chicken and put all the bones in a big pile on a seat). Considering the next day the train is totally clean again, I think the cleaning teams both on the train and at the depot do a great job.

They were also very clean outside too, being washed regularly, but I don't know if the recent (now lifted) hosepipe ban affected that earlier this year?

Once again - I am talking purely about the GN side and basing my opinion on my experiences up to September last year. Since then, I'm a fairly infrequent traveller and usually use very quiet services.

 

[David10]

The GN sets are generally quite clean, but those on Thameslink are appalling. The windows on the doors of the 319s have so much ground in dirt that you can barely see out and as for the Southern liveried 319s they are a disgrace.

 

[jon0844]

Fair enough, for all intents and purposes - TL and GN are two totally different operations, even if run by the same TOC.

The plus side is that all that suffering should be replaced with a pretty decent network (and nice new trains) in the end.

 

[David10]

The plus side is that all that suffering should be replaced with a pretty decent network (and nice new trains) in the end.

Won't be clean for long if current practices remain. In fairness, 319s were pretty dirty under the last TOC, obviously there is an issue with carriage washers on the route.

 

[Skimble19]

General cleanliness on 365s is good (rubbish removal and what not) - its the ingrained dirt that's the issue (e.g the "white/cream" panels that are various different shades throughout. Was looking at the front of some units earlier whilst waiting for my train and theyre starting to look pretty grubby as well now.

 

[paulclass43]

I travelled on both a Greater Anglia Turbostar today and one of the mk3 sets.

Now i shall start with that thing that was the turbostar caught it at the 07,45 out of Peterborough arriving Ipswich at 09.28. The second I got onboard did the slight wiff of stail vomit hit the nostrils. The plastic panelling of the interior was worn and scratched beyond repair. The thing was noisy and vibrated so much that I could still feel the vibrations when I left the train. I wonder if its possible to get full body, Hand Arms Vibration Syndrome. Also some of the panelling was rattling uncontrollably and the carpets and tables looked as though they hd not been cleaned in 6 months. There was actually dried grated cheese in the hinge of my fold down table, and I would not have eaten off of it if Greater Anglia had paid me.

Now Ill come to the mk3 set. Hmm where they mk3 iv never known a mk3 coach give me such searing back ache before. The seats were of the old BR intercity 125 style which are brilliant if they are properly maintained however it would seem that Greater Anglia literally don't give a damn about there Intercity passengers, apart from taking there money. No power sockets. Absolutely filthy. And above all totally unsuitable for the modern passenger. I Think Greater Anglia need to sit down with East Coast and Cross Country Trains and take some classes in Vehicle maintenance and on how the modern passenger expects to travel. And remember Greater Anglia your mk 3 sets are nearly 1000ft long if you want to offer a good catering service them you need a trolley service to reach passengers at the far end of the train that is a basic requirement for modern travel a passenger is loathed to walk 700 or 800ft just to get a cup of tea and on your rickety trains much of said cup of tea is likely to end up on the floor.

In conclusion I am disgusted with the state of Greater Anglia' service and trains. Greater Anglia should be absolutely ashamed of themselves and I hope that they don't stay in the Great Anglia franchise for too long as we need someone who is willing to spend on there passenger and there trains.:-x

 

[jon0844]

I thought the above was a tongue-in-cheek comment, but you're serious aren't you?

Greater Anglia can't change the trains.. so if they vibrate terribly, there's not much that they can do (beyond routing maintenance).

And the Mk3's haven't been looked after for years. The interior might be great for enthusiasts who like to remember what old trains looked like, but every other TOC invested a lot of money with all new interiors, lights, facilities. National Express didn't (whether required to or not).

GA is now investing more money than it is committed to it seems (presumably to make a good impression for further franchise bids) but when you have a limited fleet and run trains every day, it's hard to take them out of service for a massive overhaul. Chances are the improvements you want to see will require an external company to take the trains for a few weeks to totally gut them and start almost from scratch. Some great results can come from that, but if it's not part of their franchise commitment then who will pay? You and me?

I think they look pretty horrid but I've never been on one that broke down, and it's always got me to where I want to go. I bet everyone wanting them to be done up will change their mind if asked to pay more - and will revert back to 'well, it gets me from A to B'.. And while they look pretty horrid, the seats I've used have always been okay. Just sit down and take out your smartphone/tablet/laptop and forget about the scenery.

Anyway, they don't have the franchise for long. It's a very short period of time so maybe you'll get National Express back if you're lucky.

 

[Aictos]

I very much doubt that any Greater Anglia Mk3 set is 1000ft long, I'm not a regular user so have estimated that the average train is only 802.55ft long.

Greater Anglia are doing the best that they can do, it's not their fault that they've had to take over the franchise which wasn't really in the best shape possible with so many problems but they're dealing with it as efficently as they can.

I wish Greater Anglia nothing but success, if they do well they will be able to show the DfT why they should win the next franchise.

 

[David10]

Reality is that GA inherited a fairly run down fleet. Many still have their pre NX interiors and those that NX did do haven't stood the test of time.

Only refurbishment GA is committed to are on seventeen ex Silverlink 321s, although Porterbrook is refurbishing the nine 156s to comply with DDA.

There was mention in the current edition of Rail about the Mk3s possibly being refurbished including new seats, although I suggest this will be something for the next franchise, depending on whether refurbishment or replacement is proposed. With most of EC and FGW's HSTs to be withdrawn before the 2020 DDA deadline, maybe the high backed seats from these will be reclaimed and put into GA's Mk3s?

 

[bezzer]

I travelled on both a Greater Anglia Turbostar today and one of the mk3 sets.

Now i shall start with that thing that was the turbostar caught it at the 07,45 out of Peterborough arriving Ipswich at 09.28. The second I got onboard did the slight wiff of stail vomit hit the nostrils. The plastic panelling of the interior was worn and scratched beyond repair. The thing was noisy and vibrated so much that I could still feel the vibrations when I left the train. I wonder if its possible to get full body, Hand Arms Vibration Syndrome. Also some of the panelling was rattling uncontrollably and the carpets and tables looked as though they hd not been cleaned in 6 months. There was actually dried grated cheese in the hinge of my fold down table, and I would not have eaten off of it if Greater Anglia had paid me.

Now Ill come to the mk3 set. Hmm where they mk3 iv never known a mk3 coach give me such searing back ache before. The seats were of the old BR intercity 125 style which are brilliant if they are properly maintained however it would seem that Greater Anglia literally don't give a damn about there Intercity passengers, apart from taking there money. No power sockets. Absolutely filthy. And above all totally unsuitable for the modern passenger. I Think Greater Anglia need to sit down with East Coast and Cross Country Trains and take some classes in Vehicle maintenance and on how the modern passenger expects to travel. And remember Greater Anglia your mk 3 sets are nearly 1000ft long if you want to offer a good catering service them you need a trolley service to reach passengers at the far end of the train that is a basic requirement for modern travel a passenger is loathed to walk 700 or 800ft just to get a cup of tea and on your rickety trains much of said cup of tea is likely to end up on the floor.

In conclusion I am disgusted with the state of Greater Anglia' service and trains. Greater Anglia should be absolutely ashamed of themselves and I hope that they don't stay in the Great Anglia franchise for too long as we need someone who is willing to spend on there passenger and there trains.:-x

Yet another one who clearly does not live on this planet and needs a reality check.

Why would anyone spend millions of pounds of their own money on modernising rolling stock and improving services only for someone else to come along in a few months time and say 'Thank you very much for doing our job for us that will do very nicely. No one in their right mind would.

So why not find something more productive and useful to write about and get in the real world. Or take the coach!!

 

[Skimble19]

Although Greater Anglia are now apparently going to be doing a C6 on the mk3s, apparently involving repainting into their livery, and potentially new seats etc. (according to article in latest RAIL).

 

[paulclass43]

Yet another one who clearly does not live on this planet and needs a reality check.

Why would anyone spend millions of pounds of their own money on modernising rolling stock and improving services only for someone else to come along in a few months time and say 'Thank you very much for doing our job for us that will do very nicely. No one in their right mind would.

So why not find something more productive and useful to write about and get in the real world. Or take the coach!!

I happen to work on the Railway and know what I speak of.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I very much doubt that any Greater Anglia Mk3 set is 1000ft long, I'm not a regular user so have estimated that the average train is only 802.55ft long.

Greater Anglia are doing the best that they can do, it's not their fault that they've had to take over the franchise which wasn't really in the best shape possible with so many problems but they're dealing with it as efficently as they can.

I wish Greater Anglia nothing but success, if they do well they will be able to show the DfT why they should win the next franchise.

I apologise for the inaccuracy Greater Anglia mk3 sets are 802.75ft long having looked at tech specs for mk3 coaches DVT and class 90 loco.
I also wish Greater Anglia success. They just need to try a little harder. Abellio run most services in my nick of the wood out of Hull as Northern Rail. They're a little over zelous when it comes to fair avoidance but they're doing well. One conductor had the BTP waiting at Hull station about 6 months back because a young lad was 10 pence short on his fair.

 

[ChristopherJ]

I hope that First Group get the new GA franchise because If they do they won't have much of an arsenal to revinyl because most of the rolling stock is still, give or take, in First Group colours.

The 360s are a prime example, still in First Group undercoat with purple interior specifications - all they need is to have the First Group logo readded and voilà - good as new.

It is a sad state of affairs when rolling stock and infrastructure are still plodding along with the colours and identity of their predecessor two franchise terms ago. I know this is not the fault of Albelio because indeed they don't have a sufficient duration to amend the situation. All the incompetence of NXG.

 

[paulclass43]

Yet another one who clearly does not live on this planet and needs a reality check.

Why would anyone spend millions of pounds of their own money on modernising rolling stock and improving services only for someone else to come along in a few months time and say 'Thank you very much for doing our job for us that will do very nicely. No one in their right mind would.

So why not find something more productive and useful to write about and get in the real world. Or take the coach!!

I would spend the money. They had promised that the Customer would come first. I had travelled from Hull to Doncaster by coach on the same day and I rate that coach better that Greater Anglia's current stock. I have never complained about trains before because im absolutely in love with them. However I do think that National Express and now Abellio are taking the mickey. I'm a particular fan of mk3 coaches and I think its sad that they have reached the dilapidated state that they are in with Greater Anglia. and they don't seam to have even started refurbishment.

I would suggest that if you don't like reading of the gritty side of the railway then don't read my posts. Because I shall always speak my mind and the truth of the matter, weather it insults some people or weather it embarrasses employees of a TOC.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I hope that First Group get the new GA franchise because If they do they won't have much of an arsenal to revinyl because most of the rolling stock is still, give or take, in First Group colours.

The 360s are a prime example, still in First Group undercoat with purple interior specifications - all they need is to have the First Group logo readded and voilà - good as new.

It is a sad state of affairs when rolling stock and infrastructure are still plodding along with the colours and identity of their predecessor two franchise terms ago. I know this is not the fault of Albelio because indeed they don't have a sufficient duration to amend the situation. All the incompetence of NXG.

Got that right. First Group would be Great. Im hoping they will get the ECML too. Isn't it the First Barbie Doll livery that most of the 360's carry?

 

[knight2004]

What's happening with the deep cleaning of units? What's happened so far?
The class 315's are in a terrible state They're filthy

 

[paulclass43]

Reality is that GA inherited a fairly run down fleet. Many still have their pre NX interiors and those that NX did do haven't stood the test of time.

Only refurbishment GA is committed to are on seventeen ex Silverlink 321s, although Porterbrook is refurbishing the nine 156s to comply with DDA.

There was mention in the current edition of Rail about the Mk3s possibly being refurbished including new seats, although I suggest this will be something for the next franchise, depending on whether refurbishment or replacement is proposed. With most of EC and FGW's HSTs to be withdrawn before the 2020 DDA deadline, maybe the high backed seats from these will be reclaimed and put into GA's Mk3s?

Had a look at RAIL today. It sounds promising. I do feel sorry for the GEML in that it won't be a part of IEP. Who knows, now the MML is going to be electrified then EC HST will most likely be scrapped and the class 91 goto the MML. So yes hopefully the interiors from the EC MK3's can be recovered for GA. With east coast going full IEP, hopefully without the wasteful Bi mode version. Diesel drags are good enough for here in Hull, Aberdeen, Lincoln and Inverness. Harroget been electrified by then.

 

[ChristopherJ]

I would spend the money. They had promised that the Customer would come first. I had travelled from Hull to Doncaster by coach on the same day and I rate that coach better that Greater Anglia's current stock. I have never complained about trains before because im absolutely in love with them. However I do think that National Express and now Abellio are taking the mickey. I'm a particular fan of mk3 coaches and I think its sad that they have reached the dilapidated state that they are in with Greater Anglia. and they don't seam to have even started refurbishment.

I would suggest that if you don't like reading of the gritty side of the railway then don't read my posts. Because I shall always speak my mind and the truth of the matter, weather it insults some people or weather it embarrasses employees of a TOC.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Got that right. First Group would be Great. Im hoping they will get the ECML too. Isn't it the First Barbie Doll livery that most of the 360's carry?

Yes, the 360s are in undercoat blue which was previously the Barbie livery - I was being tongue-in-cheek. Although on a serious note, a 360 in the dynamic lines livery would look fookin' ace.

It's not only the Mk3 carriages that are in need of a complete refurb - the 317/5s (which are refreshed to similar spec to the Mk3s) are awful, sickening even. A majority of the seats are loose, the moquette covers are ripped, the carpet is stained, the toilets aren't even worth mentioning for the sake of enjoying your dinner tonight.

One last note - I hate the colours used in the 317/5s. Blue, brown, pink and bleedin' yellow - who designed that!? Mr Blobby!? It's supposed to be a 21st century refresh but in actual fact looks more like something dragged out of a time warp from the 1970s. A properly refurbished 317/6 is Savoy hotel luxury in comparison to a bodge job refreshed 317/5.