Nottingham 'Bus War'

[winston270twm]

In the latest Bus & Coach buyer, Yourbus have an advert stating that they are looking to acquire East Midlands based Bus & coach businesses.

 

[nottinghamcity]

Has anyone been monitoring how the Yourbus / Arriva Derby bus war is going of late?

Admittedly only a "dip check" but I was in the Brunswick Saturday afternoon (simsig meet) and saw a fair number of 1/1As. Overall I would call it a fair loading for both operators, but sustainable long term...?

Certainly better loadings got YB than they ever achieved in Nottingham.

 

[Mitch in Notts]

From the 13th August Centrebus will run a Nottingham-Melton (continuing to Grantham) service just 5 times a day! http://www.centrebus.info/Documents/19 Nottingham to Melton Mowbray Mon-Sat 130817.pdf

viz:
Service 19: Nottingham – Melton Mowbray – Oakham – Stamford - Peterborough

The Nottingham to Melton Mowbray service will be reduced to 2-hourly with most journeys operating through from Melton to Grantham as service 8 offering new journey opportunities along these routes.


Between Melton Mowbray and Oakham the 19 will be replaced by the extension of service RF1 providing through links from Corby and Uppingham to Melton Mowbray. There will be changes to the times of journeys from that currently provided but will offer a similar level of service to current provision.


Link: http://www.centrebus.info/Pages/EastLeicestershireRutlandServiceChanges.aspx?platform=hootsuite

 

[Robertj21a]

From the 13th August Centrebus will run a Nottingham-Melton (continuing to Grantham) service just 5 times a day! http://www.centrebus.info/Documents/19 Nottingham to Melton Mowbray Mon-Sat 130817.pdf

viz:
Service 19: Nottingham – Melton Mowbray – Oakham – Stamford - Peterborough

The Nottingham to Melton Mowbray service will be reduced to 2-hourly with most journeys operating through from Melton to Grantham as service 8 offering new journey opportunities along these routes.


Between Melton Mowbray and Oakham the 19 will be replaced by the extension of service RF1 providing through links from Corby and Uppingham to Melton Mowbray. There will be changes to the times of journeys from that currently provided but will offer a similar level of service to current provision.


Link: http://www.centrebus.info/Pages/EastLeicestershireRutlandServiceChanges.aspx?platform=hootsuite

Quite sizeable cutbacks, following the depot move from Saxby. No more 'Five Counties' service.

 

[ivanhoe]

From the 13th August Centrebus will run a Nottingham-Melton (continuing to Grantham) service just 5 times a day! http://www.centrebus.info/Documents/19 Nottingham to Melton Mowbray Mon-Sat 130817.pdf

viz:
Service 19: Nottingham – Melton Mowbray – Oakham – Stamford - Peterborough

The Nottingham to Melton Mowbray service will be reduced to 2-hourly with most journeys operating through from Melton to Grantham as service 8 offering new journey opportunities along these routes.


Between Melton Mowbray and Oakham the 19 will be replaced by the extension of service RF1 providing through links from Corby and Uppingham to Melton Mowbray. There will be changes to the times of journeys from that currently provided but will offer a similar level of service to current provision.


Link: http://www.centrebus.info/Pages/EastLeicestershireRutlandServiceChanges.aspx?platform=hootsuite

No 8 from Loughborough cut back to 5 a day to Melton/ Grantham. The bit between Loughborough and Melton is LCC funded. Service will be gone in 12 months between Loughborough and Melton. Looking grim.

 

[Robertj21a]

Seemingly no service at all in future from Oakham to Stamford.

 

[nottinghamcity]

I do have some sympathy with CentreBus and the various LAs involved. These types of services linking market towns along sparsely populated main roads are a financial nightmare, and it is a story being played out across the Midlands and Northern England.

 

[Robertj21a]

I do have some sympathy with CentreBus and the various LAs involved. These types of services linking market towns along sparsely populated main roads are a financial nightmare, and it is a story being played out across the Midlands and Northern England.

Quite agree. Centrebus seem to try very hard, but the odds are stacked against them.

 

[ivanhoe]

I do have some sympathy with CentreBus and the various LAs involved. These types of services linking market towns along sparsely populated main roads are a financial nightmare, and it is a story being played out across the Midlands and Northern England.

Very true. The possibility of growing traffic is unrealistic between say Loughborough and Melton. The villages it serves in the hinterland of both towns do not use the bus enough. Without sufficient subsidy, these buses cannot survive. Use it or lose it! Villagers are voting to lose it, it would seem.

 

[edwin_m]

Rutland has the lowest bus useage per head of population of anywhere in England.

At least there's the train linking Melton, Oakham, Stamford and Peterborough - but no good for all the stops in between.

 

[Lostin Transit]

It's a very affluent area with high car ownership,Barton Transport pulled out of Stamford in the mid eighties and Melton mid nineties??and good on centrebus for giving it a go but it just isn't a big public transport market.
Didn't Melton to Nottm use to be hourly (number 2) with a all the villages service several times a day (23?),can't believe it still couldn't support it,there's no direct train link,maybe yourbus could take it on instead of skimming the cream here in Derby?

 

[Robertj21a]

It's a very affluent area with high car ownership,Barton Transport pulled out of Stamford in the mid eighties and Melton mid nineties??and good on centrebus for giving it a go but it just isn't a big public transport market.
Didn't Melton to Nottm use to be hourly (number 2) with a all the villages service several times a day (23?),can't believe it still couldn't support it,there's no direct train link,maybe yourbus could take it on instead of skimming the cream here in Derby?

Centrebus is still going to be running Melton to Nottingham, but only 2-hourly.

Yourbus tend to only 'compete' over other operator's profitable routes, they rarely do anything that might give them the slightest risk - I'm sure there is a name for that sort of outfit........

 

[SCH117X]

Seemingly no service at all in future from Oakham to Stamford.

There is the train, although the chance of the buses and train connecting and through fares being available is obviously in cloud cuckoo land.

 

[Mitch in Notts]

Oakham to Stamford by bus would be a matter of changing at Uppingham with a journey time of around 70 minutes.

 

[Robertj21a]

There is the train, although the chance of the buses and train connecting and through fares being available is obviously in cloud cuckoo land.

True, for those travelling from those 2 towns. Not much use for those in the villages between, or tourists to anywhere around Rutland Water.

 

[howittpie]

The first of the gas buses are entering service today on the 6 according to NCT facebook.

 

[SCH117X]

It's a very affluent area with high car ownership,Barton Transport pulled out of Stamford in the mid eighties and Melton mid nineties??

Stamford depot closed on Sunday April 4 1988 - the last services being operated the previous day. The Chairman had announced earlier that unviable services would be axed but the closure came as a surprise at the time.Melton depot remained open throughout Barton Transports life passing to the Wellglade Group on July 2 1989 and operated as part of Barton Buses - it was vacated on 29 March 1992. Source:Barton part 3 1962-1989 Alan Oxley Robin Hood Publishing 1994 ISBN 0 948854 08 1 / 0 948854 09X.

 

[howittpie]

Spotted these changes to Centrelink on Nottingham Community Transport Facebook page seems quite sensible to restore the free journeys in the city centre again while Broadmarsh is rebuilt but interesting they are adding to additional stops into the service.

Broadmarsh Bus Station closes its doors from Sunday 9th July 2017.
From Monday 10th July, the following changes will take place on Centrelink:
Buses towards Victoria Centre
* Customers requiring Broadmarsh Centre can use either Nottingham Station (S5) or Maid Marian Way (M5)
Buses towards Queens Drive Park & Ride
* Customers who usually board from Broadmarsh Bus Station can use Nottingham Courts (C12) or Nottingham Station (S4)
Two further stops added to the route - Meadows Way (opposite NG2 Business Park) and Tottle Road.
In addition, Centrelink will be FREE between Nottingham Station and Victoria Bus Station during the closure of Broadmarsh Bus Station, which is expected to last until 2019.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Stamford depot closed on Sunday April 4 1988 - the last services being operated the previous day. The Chairman had announced earlier that unviable services would be axed but the closure came as a surprise at the time.Melton depot remained open throughout Barton Transports life passing to the Wellglade Group on July 2 1989 and operated as part of Barton Buses - it was vacated on 29 March 1992. Source:Barton part 3 1962-1989 Alan Oxley Robin Hood Publishing 1994 ISBN 0 948854 08 1 / 0 948854 09X.

Wellglade did move to a lower cost site elsewhere in the town, didn't they?

Seem to remember having a really nice day out on the Nottingham to Melton service (was it the 2?) on a Delta there and back in the early 2000s? I was quite detailed in logging such trips but there have been spells when I didn't so suspect it was c.2000?

 

[Mitch in Notts]

I travelled on the 2 from Nottingham to Stamford on its very last day of Barton/Trent operation - a Saturday. This required a change of bus at Oakham, as on a Saturday the Oakham Town Hopper Minibus didn't run and the vehicle was used to cover Oakham to Stamford to cut costs. The only passengers on that Saturday between Oakham & Stamford had all transferred from The Nottingham bus and looked like Day ticket holders...

 

[kevjs]

The first of the gas buses are entering service today on the 6 according to NCT facebook.

They are indeed - first double decker I've travelled on in Nottingham with enough leg room to fit with legs straight forward (only just, and top deck front row at least - not sure of the "normal" seats). Comfier with more padding than some recent buses too.

Speakers a bit on the loud side, clearly audible overhead phones, as were the squeeky windows.

 

[MCR247]

Rode on one today, the next stop screens seem too small or at least the covering is. Good buses though, the glass staircase does make it quite a bit brighter

 

[ivanhoe]

I travelled on the 2 from Nottingham to Stamford on its very last day of Barton/Trent operation - a Saturday. This required a change of bus at Oakham, as on a Saturday the Oakham Town Hopper Minibus didn't run and the vehicle was used to cover Oakham to Stamford to cut costs. The only passengers on that Saturday between Oakham & Stamford had all transferred from The Nottingham bus and looked like Day ticket holders...

Mitch, did Barton then cover East Leicestershire pre de regulation? I know Midland Fox (Midland Red East covered West Leicestershire, parts of the City and South Leicestershire with both Trent and Barton having services in Loughborough. Quite a carve up for a County?

 

[edwin_m]

Rode on one today, the next stop screens seem too small or at least the covering is. Good buses though, the glass staircase does make it quite a bit brighter

Do they have air cooling in the front of the top deck? I was in a southbound 6 on Wednesday when there was a cool breeze despite the lack of any windows forward of the top of the stairs. But it wasn't enough to overcome the solar gain with the sun shining directly into the wrap-around windscreen.

 

[kevjs]

Rode on one today, the next stop screens seem too small or at least the covering is. Good buses though, the glass staircase does make it quite a bit brighter

Those glass staircases are disorientating - going downstairs on the bus shouldn't make you feel queasy Fortunately my normal route is a Solo-SR one so don't normally have to catch these.

RE: Air cooling - no idea, there was a lot of noise going off, but didn't feel cool at all, although there were some vent holes at the front.

 

[Ginga]

On the subject of the Centrebus 19, the trip that gets into Nottingham for 7:20 is pretty busy. But leaves back to Melton with few if any on it. Nottingham Coaches do have a school route to Keyworth (that years ago was a Bartons route). I wonder if it would be worth just doing one trip a day from Melton missing out the old Melton Road part as that's as tight as hell. I might have to have a word with him about running "Works Services "to Amazon Coalville from Nottingham.

 

[Mitch in Notts]

Mitch, did Barton then cover East Leicestershire pre de regulation? I know Midland Fox (Midland Red East covered West Leicestershire, parts of the City and South Leicestershire with both Trent and Barton having services in Loughborough. Quite a carve up for a County?

Barton were Meltons main operator at deregulation. Bland of Cottesmore provided the Somerby & Grantham direct service plus a Cottesmore service. Skinners ran market day mainly services from Buckminster & Saltby into Melton (and also to Grantham). Midland Fox had the Leicester service. No doubt there were a few others that I was unaware of - I'm going on info I've read/gathered over the years.

 

[Mitch in Notts]

On the subject of the Centrebus 19, the trip that gets into Nottingham for 7:20 is pretty busy. But leaves back to Melton with few if any on it. Nottingham Coaches do have a school route to Keyworth (that years ago was a Bartons route). I wonder if it would be worth just doing one trip a day from Melton missing out the old Melton Road part as that's as tight as hell. I might have to have a word with him about running "Works Services "to Amazon Coalville from Nottingham.

That would surely mean Nottm Coaches running a bus out of Nottingham around 545am to cover a 630am ex Melton - running even emptier! I would have thought the 725am ex Nottm would pick up from the Broughtons onwards for education/work in Melton - it certainly used to when I've left Nottingham on it (though that is a couple of years ago).
I must admit surprise at the level of cuts - I myself occasionally use the now 1545/1650/1755 out of Melton and there are always a few regulars on each. Loadings are usually high single figures as a minimum. Shame it couldn't have been hourly with some 2 hour gaps late morning/early afternoon to allow for driver breaks - thus keeping the busier peak journeys.

 

[MCR247]

Do they have air cooling in the front of the top deck? I was in a southbound 6 on Wednesday when there was a cool breeze despite the lack of any windows forward of the top of the stairs. But it wasn't enough to overcome the solar gain with the sun shining directly into the wrap-around windscreen.

Mine had all windows open when I got on so I'm not too sure, sorry

 

[Ginga]

First Red 9 used to leave Friar Lane at 5:50 from the top of my head. So not too much of a issue. And I would say run it down to Melton empty anyway. If you get Centrebus pax paying £3.50 each for a single, get a load of 20 and your laughing. The 146 Oakham Hopper tenders just been awarded to Centrebus. And if the info I have is true it will go out to Tender again in 2020. He could alway station a few buses /coaches at that Old Dalby industrial estate. I know a yard was available at the former Raf Melton Mowbry Thor Missle site. I think Premiere could do a good job on the 19. Like they did on Red 9. Remember that's a bus war Premiere won! Could call it the X19 "The flying Pork Pie" run it from Friar Lane or Beast Market hill with a per of 2 Scania Solars or Man Meridians. Would only need 3 buses. And he has 12 discs anyway. 6 in Nottingham coaches name and 6 under Steve Greaves.