Nottinghamshire & Derbyshire Bus News

[Trainman40083]

What can i say about "Loughborough's finest". Skylink - Great. Everything else - patchy.
I remember when the number 2 was the watchword for reliability. Then buses stopped turning up. i got marooned at the bus station on more than one occassion when the last bus of the night was a no-show. Then the timetable was cut, then the Sileby-Leicester bit was removed altogether.
Give me Arriva - with all it's issues - anyday. Yes, we've got a bunch of cast off heaps running the 127 at the moment, but at least they turn up.

I am sure I read on Kinchbus Twitter, an open admission from them they they don't have the buses to run their full service...Er, why reinstate the full timetable then? Citaro 905 withdrawn, one day Versa 822 might enter service. Many days sees cancelled route 5, 11 and 12. Maybe they are chasing the money. Little different on Trentbarton. Most days, Red Arrow down to 5 or 6 vehicles with a 20 frequency. You can see coaches on the depot with parts missing.

 

[Mugby]

Well, when is a 'Premium Coach Service' not a premium coach service? You pay a higher fare (considerably higher) to travel on the Red Arrow because that's how it's described in Trentbarton's own words. But what about the many occasions when a bog standard 15 year old bus turns up? Isn't it a contravention of the Trades Descriptions Act? Shouldn't the 'Money Back Guarantee' apply in such circumstances?

There was talk on here last year of TB acquiring an extra coach from somewhere to cover for non availability of the regular Red Arrow coaches but presumably that idea has been quietly dropped?

 

[tram21]

There was talk on here last year of TB acquiring an extra coach from somewhere to cover for non availability of the regular Red Arrow coaches but presumably that idea has been quietly dropped

It just seems trentbarton have so much pride in their 'image' that getting a loan bus/ coach would tarnish it! They've clearly got the money for it, and quite frankly a day on the Red arrows would generate more than enough revenue with the fares they charge!

 

[Marcus Fryer]

Well, when is a 'Premium Coach Service' not a premium coach service? You pay a higher fare (considerably higher) to travel on the Red Arrow because that's how it's described in Trentbarton's own words. But what about the many occasions when a bog standard 15 year old bus turns up? Isn't it a contravention of the Trades Descriptions Act? Shouldn't the 'Money Back Guarantee' apply in such circumstances?

There was talk on here last year of TB acquiring an extra coach from somewhere to cover for non availability of the regular Red Arrow coaches but presumably that idea has been quietly dropped?

I seem to remember that several years ago, when a normal bus turned up instead of a coach, the driver would issue a ticket for a free ride. Presumably that practice has now ceased.

 

[peterblue]

I seem to remember that several years ago, when a normal bus turned up instead of a coach, the driver would issue a ticket for a free ride. Presumably that practice has now ceased.

I saw (about a month ago) a single deck 'mango' liveried bus appeared for the Red Arrow and people were being charged as normal. I decided to wait for the next departure which was a coach. A single ticket's £6 if I recall so a lot more expensive compared to getting indigo/i4 at £2

 

[Robertj21a]

I am sure I read on Kinchbus Twitter, an open admission from them they they don't have the buses to run their full service...Er, why reinstate the full timetable then? Citaro 905 withdrawn, one day Versa 822 might enter service. Many days sees cancelled route 5, 11 and 12. Maybe they are chasing the money. Little different on Trentbarton. Most days, Red Arrow down to 5 or 6 vehicles with a 20 frequency. You can see coaches on the depot with parts missing.

Kinchbus has been in a state for months/years. They should not have attempted to reinstate the higher frequencies when they were short of drivers, and buses.
Now there's the Skylink taking up all their resources and everything else is left to rot.

 

[Trainman40083]

I saw (about a month ago) a single deck 'mango' liveried bus appeared for the Red Arrow and people were being charged as normal. I decided to wait for the next departure which was a coach. A single ticket's £6 if I recall so a lot more expensive compared to getting indigo/i4 at £2

I am actually surprised the next one turned up or that it wasn't another of the same type. Premium service? Not most of the time.

Well, when is a 'Premium Coach Service' not a premium coach service? You pay a higher fare (considerably higher) to travel on the Red Arrow because that's how it's described in Trentbarton's own words. But what about the many occasions when a bog standard 15 year old bus turns up? Isn't it a contravention of the Trades Descriptions Act? Shouldn't the 'Money Back Guarantee' apply in such circumstances?

There was talk on here last year of TB acquiring an extra coach from somewhere to cover for non availability of the regular Red Arrow coaches but presumably that idea has been quietly dropped?

Given five coaches are often broken in the depot, it would take far more than one extra coach. Still one day, they might put all the parts back on them. Seriously though, they cannot run a full Red Arrow service, with the vehicles they have.

I think Trentbarton and the Belper services have had a mention on most of not all Radio Derby news bulletins today, following a meeting in Belper. Passengers seem to have the view that their buses won't turn up. TBF, I think that is reasonable on some of the services that cover the estates on the route. If passengers walk way (use other modes) they may never be won back.

 

[Andy Pacer]

It's terrible recently, you have Trent Barton/Notts & Derby, where the bus might break down or catch fire, if it turns up. Then you've got Arriva, who are also hit and miss on turning up, can't be bothered to put timetables up anymore and have got the scruffiest and dirtiest busses going.

Do you have an example of missing timetables on Arriva routes?

 

[STINT47]

A look at the Red Arrow this afternoon shows that out of the nine buses required foe s full service they have six running. Of these only three are coaches.

 

[adrianjohnson]

I'm surprised this is still going on, given that last September the three's Versas were replaced by Enviros. Even if some Versas were off road, there still should be plenty to allow for a full service across the fleet, isn't there? Yes, they'd be a bit untidy, but at least a bus would turn up.

Also, are the refurbishments done in house? It seems that only 3 Versa's have been re-done so far, 1 for Kinch and 2 for Trent (the Notts & Derby ones haven't been refurbished), even though it looks like only 1 is actually in service.

Plus, there are supposed to be more Volvos for Skylink Express, only 1 done so far.

Surely, to speed things up a little, they could outsource refurbishments, even if it's for the time being. There would have to be companies willing to do it, but it would mean more would go in service.

Or am I missing something?

 

[Andy Pacer]

A look at the Red Arrow this afternoon shows that out of the nine buses required foe s full service they have six running. Of these only three are coaches.

Is this based on physical observations?

 

[cnjb8]

I am actually surprised the next one turned up or that it wasn't another of the same type. Premium service? Not most of the time.


Given five coaches are often broken in the depot, it would take far more than one extra coach. Still one day, they might put all the parts back on them. Seriously though, they cannot run a full Red Arrow service, with the vehicles they have.

I think Trentbarton and the Belper services have had a mention on most of not all Radio Derby news bulletins today, following a meeting in Belper. Passengers seem to have the view that their buses won't turn up. TBF, I think that is reasonable on some of the services that cover the estates on the route. If passengers walk way (use other modes) they may never be won back.

There are plenty of tri-axle surplus National Express Levantes around that Trent could buy for example, the insistence that every bus TrentBarton runs has to be brand new to them is really hurting them at the moment IMO

 

[Andy Pacer]

the insistence that every bus TrentBarton runs has to be brand new to them is really hurting them at the moment IMO

Is this an official policy?

 

[Trainman40083]

Is this an official policy?

They decline the use of Notts and Derby vehicles which are right in their depot

 

[Andy Pacer]

They decline the use of Notts and Derby vehicles which are right in their depot

Thanks, although I was asking in relation to acquisitions.

 

[Trainman40083]

I'm surprised this is still going on, given that last September the three's Versas were replaced by Enviros. Even if some Versas were off road, there still should be plenty to allow for a full service across the fleet, isn't there? Yes, they'd be a bit untidy, but at least a bus would turn up.

Also, are the refurbishments done in house? It seems that only 3 Versa's have been re-done so far, 1 for Kinch and 2 for Trent (the Notts & Derby ones haven't been refurbished), even though it looks like only 1 is actually in service.

Plus, there are supposed to be more Volvos for Skylink Express, only 1 done so far.

Surely, to speed things up a little, they could outsource refurbishments, even if it's for the time being. There would have to be companies willing to do it, but it would mean more would go in service.

Or am I missing something?

I think Skylink Express Volvo 743 went to Bus and Coach World at Blackburn , but what work they actually did, I do not know

 

[Andy Pacer]

I think Skylink Express Volvo 743 went to Bus and Coach World at Blackburn , but what work they actually did, I do not know

Was that fairly recently?

 

[cnjb8]

Is this an official policy?

I'm not sure but it seems to be, otherwise we might not have 19-year old Scanias still in service

 

[Andy Pacer]

I'm not sure but it seems to be, otherwise we might not have 19-year old Scanias still in service

So are you suggesting that if they were more open (or at all open) to second hand acquisitions it would be a way of improving their age profile?

 

[Trainman40083]

Was that fairly recently?

It appeared back in Skylink livery before it entered service, entered service, seems to have issues, then went for repairs (gearbox?) Now seems to have settled down. Derby spare Volvo 741 transferred to Notts may well be a second one, in time.

Is this based on physical observations?

I will say just walking past the Derby depot, it is not unusual to see 4 or 5 Red Arrow coaches parked on the depot. Some seem to have been there for weeks, maybe being used for parts. Some days, you see more Mango spare single deckers than coaches, but running a full timetable on RA seems rare.

 

[cnjb8]

So are you suggesting that if they were more open (or at all open) to second hand acquisitions it would be a way of improving their age profile?

Yes, with refurbs to bring them up to 'Trent' standards

 

[Andy Pacer]

I will say just walking past the Derby depot, it is not unusual to see 4 or 5 Red Arrow coaches parked on the depot. Some seem to have been there for weeks, maybe being used for parts. Some days, you see more Mango spare single deckers than coaches, but running a full timetable on RA seems rare.

Agreed, I was wondering about the suggestion that 3 boards were missing.

 

[LowLevel]

The sad thing is those Scanias represent for me the absolute pinnacle of TB - routes like the Sixes were an absolute pleasure to use with excellent quality reliable buses and it's a shame it seems to have been a slow decline ever since.

 

[tram21]

Is this based on physical observations?

I've been out this afternoon and yes it's correct that only 6 are out with three being coaches. Also a look into the depot you can see 5 coaches on the dead lane.

You do have to appreciate though that waiting 20 minutes (if you miss a bus) isn't too bad compared to them missing a bus on the Villager/ V3/ Swift, for example, which would have a much greater impact per customer.

 

[Trainman40083]

On a slightly different subject, I noticed Arriva have again used two double deckers on their share of the X38. I did wonder if they are seeing increased loadings, as they were supposedly short of double deckers at Derby. Seems to see more single deckers on 1 Alvaston and 38 Sinfin than I used to.

I've been out this afternoon and yes it's correct that only 6 are out with three being coaches. Also a look into the depot you can see 5 coaches on the dead lane.

You do have to appreciate though that waiting 20 minutes (if you miss a bus) isn't too bad compared to them missing a bus on the Villager/ V3/ Swift, for example, which would have a much greater impact per customer.

Given it is so rare that they have the buses to deliver the full timetable on the Red Arrow, it makes you wonder why they don't change the timetable so that they can reliably deliver it. PVR 9 isn't it? 6 or 7 on is the norm. Now had they not hired in Versas 850/851 from Sutton, I doubt there would have been any TB service on V3 or X38....

 

[43055]

I'm surprised this is still going on, given that last September the three's Versas were replaced by Enviros. Even if some Versas were off road, there still should be plenty to allow for a full service across the fleet, isn't there? Yes, they'd be a bit untidy, but at least a bus would turn up.

Also, are the refurbishments done in house? It seems that only 3 Versa's have been re-done so far, 1 for Kinch and 2 for Trent (the Notts & Derby ones haven't been refurbished), even though it looks like only 1 is actually in service.

Plus, there are supposed to be more Volvos for Skylink Express, only 1 done so far.

Surely, to speed things up a little, they could outsource refurbishments, even if it's for the time being. There would have to be companies willing to do it, but it would mean more would go in service.

Or am I missing something?

Refurbishments are done at Langley mill. Out of the 3 ex threes Versas done so far it seems the 827 has only done 1 full days in service.

On a slightly different subject, I noticed Arriva have again used two double deckers on their share of the X38. I did wonder if they are seeing increased loadings, as they were supposedly short of double deckers at Derby. Seems to see more single deckers on 1 Alvaston and 38 Sinfin than I used to.


Given it is so rare that they have the buses to deliver the full timetable on the Red Arrow, it makes you wonder why they don't change the timetable so that they can reliably deliver it. PVR 9 isn't it? 6 or 7 on is the norm. Now had they not hired in Versas 850/851 from Sutton, I doubt there would have been any TB service on V3 or X38....

Would of thought is would be better to run a 15 min service to reduce the number of non existent coaches.

 

[SSmith2009]

Would of thought is would be better to run a 15 min service to reduce the number of non existent coaches.

Even as a temporary reduction of every 15 mins with an uplift to 12 mins at the peak times would help with the amount of missed trips.

A deliverable timetable will help them to restore passengers confidence.

 

[Trainman40083]

Even as a temporary reduction of every 15 mins with an uplift to 12 mins at the peak times would help with the amount of missed trips.

A deliverable timetable will help them to restore passengers confidence.

Exactly. You manage customer expectations by reliably delivering your timetable, even if is less. I noticed there are now four trains an hour from Derby to Nottingham, even a better service from Spondon. Makes you wonder if they are busy.

Refurbishments are done at Langley mill. Out of the 3 ex threes Versas done so far it seems the 827 has only done 1 full days in service.

Would of thought is would be better to run a 15 min service to reduce the number of non existent coaches.

That would give time during the day to better maintain the vehicles. I what the problem is with the coaches. At least one seems to have been off months. But, at the moment you have passengers paying for a premium service, and often Enviro 200MMC 269 turns up..

Refurbishments are done at Langley mill. Out of the 3 ex threes Versas done so far it seems the 827 has only done 1 full days in service.

Would of thought is would be better to run a 15 min service to reduce the number of non existent coaches.

Re 827. Not sure it managed a full day. On the Sunday it was taken off the V3 for a couple of hours. The Saturday it worked Red Arrow, but I think it had a ticket machine problem. Wonder what is wrong with it now? Well apart from it having no destination blind in it

The sad thing is those Scanias represent for me the absolute pinnacle of TB - routes like the Sixes were an absolute pleasure to use with excellent quality reliable buses and it's a shame it seems to have been a slow decline ever since.

Yes, the Scanias were great. Maybe more fuel thirsty, but you rarely saw them break down. They just carried on.

On the subject of RA coaches. It is coach 82. It worked Derby to Nottingham, one trip last June (possibly), prior to that 23rd January 2023...

 

[Mikw]

A warning from history, the Kinch number 2 also had problems having enough vehicles to run the service. After a while the service was reduced, it never returned to the higher level again. In fact half of the route was abandoned completely.

 

[Trainman40083]

A warning from history, the Kinch number 2 also had problems having enough vehicles to run the service. After a while the service was reduced, it never returned to the higher level again. In fact half of the route was abandoned completely.

I just see people say how many 5, 11 and 12 services never run. Lucky if hourly, timetabled half hourly

Another thing about the Red Arrow. It seems Nottingham bus 741 worked the RA services after midnight. But to see that, you would need to go into Bustimes, recent changes, find the record where the duplicate entry for 741 was deleted and there would see it working until about 3am.