NSE Split Flap Indicators

[43021HST]

I'm currently looking for photos of the smaller platform NSE Split Flap indicators, that were the precursors to the modern LED platform display boards. (not the large departure boards seen at terminals) for a modelling project, any help would be much appreciated.

Funnily enough I don't remember split flap indicators at all, growing up in Reading, in pre-LED days, I have memories of the big Cathode Ray ceefax style TV screens. Those were around until quite late, with the last one's disappearing when Reading was rebuilt.

With the exception of major terminals, (I know Liverpool Street had one until 2007), had all of the smaller split flap displays gone by the late 90s/ early 2000s? Also when were they introduced enmasse?, at a guess I'd say the 70s?

 

[Ken H]

I'm currently looking for photos of the smaller platform NSE Split Flap indicators, that were the precursors to the modern LED platform display boards. (not the large departure boards seen at terminals) for a modelling project, any help would be much appreciated.

Funnily enough I don't remember split flap indicators at all, growing up in Reading, in pre-LED days, I have memories of the big Cathode Ray ceefax style TV screens. Those were around until quite late, with the last one's disappearing when Reading was rebuilt.

With the exception of major terminals, (I know Liverpool Street had one until 2007), had all of the smaller split flap displays gone by the late 90s/ early 2000s? Also when were they introduced enmasse?, at a guess I'd say the 70s?

Not answering your question but they were mostly made by Solari. may help in internet searches.

 

[chris7153]

Take a look at
www.kentrail.org.uk/Chatham_1991.jpg
Good example of these in background on platform 2.

 

[steevp]

Funny enough I have one of these in my garage (well the flappy bit)

 

[telstarbox]

See previous thread:

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/mini-solari-boards-on-platforms.119089/

There are some photos on Flickr if you search for Solari board.

 

[Taunton]

Often described as an NSE feature, but they were installed well before that on the platforms of the underground stations in Liverpool on the Link/Loop lines, which opened in the late 1970s. There weren't a lot of destinations to show on those.

 

[Ken H]

Alan williams said in Modern railways, that Southern Region had lots of flap indicators that when there was a flap, they didnt!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Often described as an NSE feature, but they were installed well before that on the platforms of the underground stations in Liverpool on the Link/Loop lines, which opened in the late 1970s. There weren't a lot of destinations to show on those.

Yes, I remember those. For some reason the blank flap (which rarely showed except when there was disruption, at least once Merseyrail stepped up from the original 20-minute frequency to the present 15 minute one) used to freak me out as a very young kid. I recall the one on Platform 2 at Central had some damage to that flap, which freaked me out even more.

One other thing that was noticeable was that while all of them (except, if I recall, one of the ones at Moorfields) had a "2nd" line, it was never used.

They were in place on Merseyrail until the failed Modulex system was installed in the mid 1990s (since replaced with a non-standard 3-line LED system, then again at some stations with the now standard 3-line LED one).

FWIW there were some interesting destinations/routes on the flaps which were part of the original plans but never happened - e.g. "Ormskirk via Orrell Park" was complemented by Ormskirk via somewhere else - Ford I think. I suspect it probably had Wigan Wallgate and Preston as well, possibly also Gateacre.

(Kids get freaked out at all sorts of odd things! )

 

[Ianigsy]

FWIW there were some interesting destinations/routes on the flaps which were part of the original plans but never happened - e.g. "Ormskirk via Orrell Park" was complemented by Ormskirk via somewhere else - Ford I think. I suspect it probably had Wigan Wallgate and Preston as well, possibly also Gateacre.

(Kids get freaked out at all sorts of odd things! )

Ah, the mysterious Headbolt Lane...

I'm fairly sure Wigan Wallgate was on there, and the alternative route to Ormskirk might have been via Marsh Lane.

I remember the small Solari indicators being on some of the larger Kent stations when I was a student down that way in the 1990s (they were fairly essential when most trains just had the route number on the front and some odd peak hour stopping patterns), but I was first introduced to the Southern Region through staying with an auntie at Ewell and was fascinated by the finger boards at Ewell West. Again, because they were designed to cover all possible options, you had the basic "Epsom" then the various stopping patterns to Dorking, Horsham, Effingham Junction and Guildford- there might even have been a dusty old one at the back for a through train to the coast.

 

[Ken H]

Ah, the mysterious Headbolt Lane...

I'm fairly sure Wigan Wallgate was on there, and the alternative route to Ormskirk might have been via Marsh Lane.

I remember the small Solari indicators being on some of the larger Kent stations when I was a student down that way in the 1990s (they were fairly essential when most trains just had the route number on the front and some odd peak hour stopping patterns), but I was first introduced to the Southern Region through staying with an auntie at Ewell and was fascinated by the finger boards at Ewell West. Again, because they were designed to cover all possible options, you had the basic "Epsom" then the various stopping patterns to Dorking, Horsham, Effingham Junction and Guildford- there might even have been a dusty old one at the back for a through train to the coast.

the finger board set at Folkestone Central had a black blank one that staff could write on in chalk for specials.

 

[EM2]

Have a look at this YouTube video. Someone has actually built one for their layout!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Do you mean the ones like in this picture?

As the second picture shows, when they got stuck - which was quite frequently - the displayed routes could be, err.... "interesting".

 

[Dr_Paul]

That picture of the Solari indicator showing West Byfleet, Chertsey and Fratton brought back memories of when they didn't work properly; there used to be some very interesting if improbable routes shown, especially at Waterloo. Something similar happened on a northbound 168 bus the other week from Waterloo to Euston (where I alighted) and up to Hampstead: its tannoy repeatedly announced that it was stopping at Kings Cross and Latimer Road -- a little and a long way off the route. How that happened I don't know.

 

[Taunton]

Memory of the Waterloo indicator was it would occasionally cycle, on the last two lines, through a whole sequence of "excuses" for delay. It would show "due to", and the next line would work rapidly through "Fog"; "Staff difficulties"; "Late incoming service"; "Operating incident", and more. Apparently seeing these going round was the inspiration for the scriptwriter of Reginald Perrin, with the increasingly unlikely excuses for train delays as the series progressed.

http://www.leonardrossiter.com/reginaldperrin/Train.html

 

[yorksrob]

seeing these going round was the inspiration for the scriptwriter of Reginald Perrin, with the increasingly unlikely excuses for train delays as the series progressed.

http://www.leonardrossiter.com/reginaldperrin/Train.html

It's about time they repeated those !

(the series, rather than the excuses !)

 

[Tio Terry]

During the late 70's and through the 80's one of my responsibilities was to get the flaps required for timetable changes printed and fitted so I know quite a lot about flap indicator systems!

Solari and Krone were the main suppliers but there were variations among those as well as a few other suppliers such as Omega at Liverpool St at one time.

I have a flap unit that was, at one time, installed above the door to my office in Croydon, it could display things like "Do not disturb"or "Coffee!" and lots of other things, it's in the garage somewhere along with the control box.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

That picture of the Solari indicator showing West Byfleet, Chertsey and Fratton brought back memories of when they didn't work properly; there used to be some very interesting if improbable routes shown, especially at Waterloo.

I have quite a few pictures of the ones at Waterloo showing impossible routes; I just haven't got up to them in my archive scanning yet...

 

[Bletchleyite]

I have quite a few pictures of the ones at Waterloo showing impossible routes; I just haven't got up to them in my archive scanning yet...

The one I liked best was when you got Paris Nord and the likes on the New St board.

 

[Tio Terry]

The one I liked best was when you got Paris Nord and the likes on the New St board.

That was because the board at New St, whilst a Solari, was of a specific model and the only other one like it in the UK was at Glasgow Airport. When it was due for replacement I arranged for BR to buy the old Glasgow one for spares to keep New St going for a few more years. We had flaps printed for all sorts of places where the aircraft flew to.

We once arranged for the Engineers Inspection Special that was due to depart from Platform One to have a route giving destinations like Jamaica, Florida and New York!

Don't recall Paris railway stations though.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Don't recall Paris railway stations though.

Were they prepared for the North of London Eurostar services...?

 

[Bletchleyite]

That was because the board at New St, whilst a Solari, was of a specific model and the only other one like it in the UK was at Glasgow Airport. When it was due for replacement I arranged for BR to buy the old Glasgow one for spares to keep New St going for a few more years. We had flaps printed for all sorts of places where the aircraft flew to.

We once arranged for the Engineers Inspection Special that was due to depart from Platform One to have a route giving destinations like Jamaica, Florida and New York!

Don't recall Paris railway stations though.

I think it gained flaps for Regional Eurostar, and may have also had them for the Harwich boat train.

 

[Taunton]

Don't recall Paris railway stations though.

Didn't the Liverpool Street one have all the points served through Hook of Holland shown under the Harwich boat trains. I'm sure I saw a board showing Berlin and Moscow (which was rendered in Cook's Timetable style as Moskva).

 

[Ken H]

Didn't the Liverpool Street one have all the points served through Hook of Holland shown under the Harwich boat trains. I'm sure I saw a board showing Berlin and Moscow (which was rendered in Cook's Timetable style as Moskva).

the paper departure lists at Lancaster in BR days had some interesting stations like Moskva. and lympstone commando!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Didn't the Liverpool Street one have all the points served through Hook of Holland shown under the Harwich boat trains. I'm sure I saw a board showing Berlin and Moscow (which was rendered in Cook's Timetable style as Moskva).

I think New St had that as well. But yes, it did.

 

[Tio Terry]

Were they prepared for the North of London Eurostar services...?

Quite possible, that would be after my time there.

 

[Tio Terry]

Didn't the Liverpool Street one have all the points served through Hook of Holland shown under the Harwich boat trains. I'm sure I saw a board showing Berlin and Moscow (which was rendered in Cook's Timetable style as Moskva).

The Omega one did, not sure about the Krone one that replaced it.