Off Lease Rolling Stock Updates

[causton]

Like I said the 3 extra 350s were ordered to cover Bromsgrove.

The following quote is directly from your post.

...will help deliver an internal rolling stock cascade...

i.e. 350s replace 323s on other routes (e.g. Walsall - Wolverhampton, which has already happened) to release 323s for the Cross City.

 

[ChrisHogan]

The following quote is directly from your post.



i.e. 350s replace 323s on other routes (e.g. Walsall - Wolverhampton, which has already happened) to release 323s for the Cross City.

Agreed, of one unit. The 323 that was used for the enhanced Bromsgrove service. There are no spare 323s or 350s available for any other internal cascade at the moment.

We will have to wait until June's announcement to see how the DfT and the successful WM bidder are going to resolve the many rolling stock problems that the new franchise will inherit.

 

[43074]

About half a dozen staying, or so I've heard.

It's 6 Mk4 sets and an extra loco (i.e. 7 91s) which are staying, unless VTEC order an additional 6 AT300s instead which has also been rumoured.

 

[43096]

It's 6 Mk4 sets and an extra loco (i.e. 7 91s) which are staying, unless VTEC order an additional 6 AT300s instead which has also been rumoured.

Not necessarily. The franchise agreement gives them the option of retaining either Mark 4s or HSTs.

 

[pemma]

LM has announced permanent strengthening of peak-hour services from Euston, most recently one (possibly the 1705) went from 8 to 12 cars last December. This presumably was agreed with DfT as several services are running with passengers standing for more than 20 minutes and the TOC is required to come up with a mitigation plan under the DA FA.

Really the problem there is long distance passengers buying LM only tickets, rather than buying the very expensive Anytime tickets and travelling on Virgin or waiting until the Virgin evening peak finishes.

While I don't object to a slower regional style service offering cheaper fares than a long distance intercity style service, the difference is far too great e.g. £20 for an FC Advance single on LM when it's £80 for a standard class single on Virgin.

 

[pemma]

The dates the Porterbrook vehicles at Anglia go off-lease has been confirmed:

01/10/2019 - 3 x 2 car 170s, 8 x 3 car 170s and 1 x 156 will be returned.
01/12/2019 - The 153s will be returned
30/12/2019 - The rest of the 156s will be returned
31/12/2019 - The mk3s and DVTs will be returned
31/01/2020 - The remaining 170 will be returned.

Obviously they'll likely be changes to the above if the new trains don't get introduced to schedule.

So it looks like all but 1 of the 170s should be available for another operator in time for the December 2019 timetable change.

 

[43096]

The dates the Porterbrook vehicles at Anglia go off-lease has been confirmed:

01/10/2019 - 3 x 2 car 170s, 8 x 3 car 170s and 1 x 156 will be returned.
01/12/2019 - The 153s will be returned
30/12/2019 - The rest of the 156s will be returned
31/12/2019 - The mk3s and DVTs will be returned
31/01/2020 - The remaining 170 will be returned.

Obviously they'll likely be changes to the above if the new trains don't get introduced to schedule.

So it looks like all but 1 of the 170s should be available for another operator in time for the December 2019 timetable change.

There's not a lot of leeway if the new stock is late or troublesome as the 153s and LHCS are not PRM compliant, so have a drop-dead date of 31/12/19.

 

[pemma]

Ignore.

 

[Mordac]

I'm sure if the stock was late they could get a derogation for the non-PRM compliant stuff. I imagine the mk3s will probably get picked up by charter operations, in turn leading to a scrapping of mk2s.

 

[CosherB]

I'm sure if the stock was late they could get a derogation for the non-PRM compliant stuff. I imagine the mk3s will probably get picked up by charter operations, in turn leading to a scrapping of mk2s.

Precisely. I cannot envisage a scenario where the Mk3 stock will be immediately scrapped, they've had an AGA refresh relatively recently!

 

[MatthewRead]

The dates the Porterbrook vehicles at Anglia go off-lease has been confirmed:

01/10/2019 - 3 x 2 car 170s, 8 x 3 car 170s and 1 x 156 will be returned.
01/12/2019 - The 153s will be returned
30/12/2019 - The rest of the 156s will be returned
31/12/2019 - The mk3s and DVTs will be returned
31/01/2020 - The remaining 170 will be returned.

Obviously they'll likely be changes to the above if the new trains don't get introduced to schedule.

So it looks like all but 1 of the 170s should be available for another operator in time for the December 2019 timetable change.

What about the EMU fleet?

 

[pemma]

What about the EMU fleet?

They belong to other ROSCOs, mainly Eversholt who don't make lease dates public. When DfT make the franchise agreement public that should reveal the EMU dates.

 

[43096]

Precisely. I cannot envisage a scenario where the Mk3 stock will be immediately scrapped, they've had an AGA refresh relatively recently!

If there's no prospect of re-use within a short timeframe I would expect them to go in the bin. No point paying to store something with little prospect of re-use.

 

[Clansman]

aI've tried to update the list to reflect the rolling stock changes of the current South West franchise once First/MTR take over operations.

Looks like the 707s and 458s are further additions to the list of relatively modern rolling stock going in the bin as it stands, although no doubt the 707s will be exempt from this at some point. As for the others, the storage limbo awaits as it stands.

 

[palmersears]

When are the 458s leaving? At the end of the current franchise?

 

[F Great Eastern]

You need to add in the additional 321s that Greater Anglia recently acquired that are in FCC livery.

I believe it's 103 in service with another 1 soon to enter.

 

[Mordac]

aI've tried to update the list to reflect the rolling stock changes of the current South West franchise once First/MTR take over operations.

Looks like the 707s and 458s are further additions to the list of relatively modern rolling stock going in the bin as it stands, although no doubt the 707s will be exempt from this at some point. As for the others, the storage limbo awaits as it stands.

That's for doing the list. I don't understand why you only list 8 319s? Surely there's a lot more going off lease than that?

 

[Clansman]

That's for doing the list. I don't understand why you only list 8 319s? Surely there's a lot more going off lease than that?

You're most likely right. The 319s are the only figure I'm not sure of.

Edit: Porterbrook's figures have the GTR ones at 86, and according to someone's edit on Wikipedia there's 13 currently off lease. It's all I've really got at the moment unless any of the off-lease units are being used in the flex program that I'm not aware of. Apart from that, that just leaves London Midland's batch.

 

[samuelmorris]

99? Surely there were only ever 86 319s built?

 

[Clansman]

99? Surely there were only ever 86 319s built?

That's what I think also. The figures available are a bit mish-mash at the moment, as the 86 figure quoted from Porterbrook as operating for GTR.

I now have 48, which is the quoted Thameslink figure plus those already offlease.

 

[Clansman]

Just wondering if anyone has a link to the rolling stock off-lease figures from the new West Midlands Franchise, that I can add here?

 

[pemma]

Just wondering if anyone has a link to the rolling stock off-lease figures from the new West Midlands Franchise, that I can add here?

Probably worth keeping an eye on the Porterbrook site: https://www.porterbrook.co.uk/rolling-stock/lease-end-dates given the LM 170s, 350/2s and 319s (which you've said are going off-lease) are all leased from Porterbrook.

 

[ben2012]

does anypne have a update for the list in the first post