Old semaphore signals

[robert0107]

With all the modernisation going on at present and the removal of the old semaphore signals does anyone know where I could obtain a complete signal to preserve in my garden?

 

[Crossforth]

When they've had them down in the past, most have been cut up on site.

This comes from a colleague of mine who has cut them up.

 

[Donachie]

With all the modernisation going on at present and the removal of the old semaphore signals does anyone know where I could obtain a complete signal to preserve in my garden?

Keep an eye out for autions at Crewe Heritage Centre, sometimes complete signals there ,I think the next one is in April.

I got one, back in Railtrack days, simply by asking the local signalling manager.

Donachie.

 

[TDK]

With all the modernisation going on at present and the removal of the old semaphore signals does anyone know where I could obtain a complete signal to preserve in my garden?

Why don't you build one yourself? Not a difficult job!

 

[Johnuk123]

Why don't you build one yourself? Not a difficult job!

Probably not but it's like buying one of those replica totems, just isn't the same.

 

[RichmondCommu]

My wife would go berserk if one of those appeared in our back garden!

 

[robert0107]

Thanks for everyones help on this. There was one particular signal I wanted but was removed/disposed of before I even knew when it was going to be replaced, even the signal box was completely destroyed and taken away. Pure vandalism on behalf of network rail. Why do they not advertise these items for sale and at least get some money for them instead of just breaking them up!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Oh and by the way, I have an understanding wife, and a big back garden.

 

[Crossforth]

Thanks for everyones help on this. There was one particular signal I wanted but was removed/disposed of before I even knew when it was going to be replaced, even the signal box was completely destroyed and taken away. Pure vandalism on behalf of network rail. Why do they not advertise these items for sale and at least get some money for them instead of just breaking them up!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Oh and by the way, I have an understanding wife, and a big back garden.

Boxes are generally got rid of quickly as they are good hiding places and also to stop preservationists stepping in. There are a few boxes round the country that are no longer used but NR still have to maintain all the interlocking a due to the intervention of some preservationists getting, i assume, English Heritage involved and as you can imagine, it isn't cheap.

 

[John Webb]

Boxes are generally got rid of quickly as they are good hiding places and also to stop preservationists stepping in. There are a few boxes round the country that are no longer used but NR still have to maintain all the interlocking a due to the intervention of some preservationists getting, i assume, English Heritage involved and as you can imagine, it isn't cheap.

If a box is listed, but taken out of use, NR don't have to maintain the interlocking - they just let the box and contents deteriorate until either they are compelled to carry out some work to preserve the box until either it's taken away to a heritage railway (which isn't easy if listed) or local preservationists take over the box and restore it (and that depends on independent access to the box clear of tracks).
For example St Albans South went out of use December 1979, BR were compelled to do some work on the roof and structure in 1983, but it continued unloved until 2003 when the Preservation Trust was set up - we did not get access until November 2005 and the lease was not signed until March 2006!
The lever frame and interlocking took the best part of a year to restore and needed complete dismantling to do so!
And no, it wasn't cheap - about £120,000 for professional building works and groundworks and thousands of hours of volunteers' time.
At least EH and NR are looking jointly at which boxes to preserve in the future, which is something to be thankful for!

 

[ilkestonian]

With all the modernisation going on at present and the removal of the old semaphore signals does anyone know where I could obtain a complete signal to preserve in my garden?

Not a complete signal, but my brother picked up an upper quadrant home signal arm, with it's spectacle plate, off eBay a while back. Had to be collected, I think, as it is far bigger and heavier than it might appear to be when mounted atop it's post!

 

[Crossforth]

If a box is listed, but taken out of use, NR don't have to maintain the interlocking - they just let the box and contents deteriorate until either they are compelled to carry out some work to preserve the box until either it's taken away to a heritage railway (which isn't easy if listed) or local preservationists take over the box and restore it (and that depends on independent access to the box clear of tracks).
For example St Albans South went out of use December 1979, BR were compelled to do some work on the roof and structure in 1983, but it continued unloved until 2003 when the Preservation Trust was set up - we did not get access until November 2005 and the lease was not signed until March 2006!
The lever frame and interlocking took the best part of a year to restore and needed complete dismantling to do so!
And no, it wasn't cheap - about £120,000 for professional building works and groundworks and thousands of hours of volunteers' time.
At least EH and NR are looking jointly at which boxes to preserve in the future, which is something to be thankful for!

I don't know where but I know NR still certainly looking after the lockings on some out of use boxes, I just don't know where. I'll see if I can find out.

 

[AlexS]

Network Rail is very hot on recycling of obsolete assets (eg mechanical signalling equipment). Major resignalling schemes tend to have the parts offered to a heritage railway or other parties who have registered an interest. Just because they appear to be have been removed, doesn't mean they don't get saved.

The difference is, heritage railways get bits for a token fee (maybe £20), any private collectors might be charged £500 for the same item and only if no preservationists are interested.

I've helped to de-signal several places for Network Rail and everything has gone to a variety of good causes.

 

[Tomnick]

I don't know where but I know NR still certainly looking after the lockings on some out of use boxes, I just don't know where. I'll see if I can find out.

Are you sure they're not boxes which are switched out 'permanently' rather than those which have been formally abolished? I can't think of any such boxes east of the Pennines, but I can't think why they'd want or need to maintain the inner workings of an abolished box either!

 

[Ironside]

If a box is listed, but taken out of use, NR don't have to maintain the interlocking - they just let the box and contents deteriorate until either they are compelled to carry out some work to preserve the box until either it's taken away to a heritage railway (which isn't easy if listed) or local preservationists take over the box and restore it (and that depends on independent access to the box clear of tracks).
For example St Albans South went out of use December 1979, BR were compelled to do some work on the roof and structure in 1983, but it continued unloved until 2003 when the Preservation Trust was set up - we did not get access until November 2005 and the lease was not signed until March 2006!
The lever frame and interlocking took the best part of a year to restore and needed complete dismantling to do so!
And no, it wasn't cheap - about £120,000 for professional building works and groundworks and thousands of hours of volunteers' time.
At least EH and NR are looking jointly at which boxes to preserve in the future, which is something to be thankful for!

Please don't take offence at my following question, its not intended as an insult.

I can see you have spent alot of time and effort to preserve a signal box in its original location, but would it not be more useful to put it on a heritage railway where it can be used?

 

[Cliveblackpool]

Please don't take offence at my following question, its not intended as an insult.

I can see you have spent alot of time and effort to preserve a signal box in its original location, but would it not be more useful to put it on a heritage railway where it can be used?

About 7 -8 years ago I offered a heritage railway in Mid Cornwall sundry signalling items - probably nearly a ton of it - some damn good items including a signal - Had to be moved in a week or so.
Answer - No can do in that time frame mate, btw we don't pay anything for it!!
Pfffff!

 

[Crossforth]

Are you sure they're not boxes which are switched out 'permanently' rather than those which have been formally abolished? I can't think of any such boxes east of the Pennines, but I can't think why they'd want or need to maintain the inner workings of an abolished box either!

All I know is that the box in question that I can remember about was in Derbyshire but I don't know where. I shall try and find out next time I'm in Gosport.

 

[Tomnick]

In response to both of the last two posts (edit - the two before Crossforth's last one!) and without knowing the detail of the latter of the two (so apologies if it's something that you'd already considered!), but it's worth considering that there are significant and clear differences between signalling kit from different companies and BR regions. I could understand a heritage railway aiming to recreate a sleepy 1930s GWR branch line (for example) turning down any sort of BR kit, let alone that from the Southern Region! Likewise, there's not many railways that could make use of a large Midland box, and even fewer that would have a sufficiently complex layout to fully justify one of that size. Personally, I'd rather see a busy main line box existing as a simulation of its former life than reduced to little more than an oversized shunt frame at the end of a single track branch line.

 

[Ironside]

About 7 -8 years ago I offered a heritage railway in Mid Cornwall sundry signalling items - probably nearly a ton of it - some damn good items including a signal - Had to be moved in a week or so.
Answer - No can do in that time frame mate, btw we don't pay anything for it!!
Pfffff!

That is very short sited of them, unless they genuinely could not organise themselves, as even if they did not need the horde they could have traded it for something they did want.

 

[Tomnick]

It is, understandably, difficult even for a large volunteer S&T gang to organise themselves for a recovery job within a week, so I can see why they might turn down a relatively small amount of potentially (again without knowing the details!) irrelevant material. Yes, it can be (and often is) traded with other railways - but only if you've got the resources in the first place!

 

[Ironside]

It is, understandably, difficult even for a large volunteer S&T gang to organise themselves for a recovery job within a week, so I can see why they might turn down a relatively small amount of potentially (again without knowing the details!) irrelevant material. Yes, it can be (and often is) traded with other railways - but only if you've got the resources in the first place!

When you put it like that it's understandable, it's probably equally impracticle but it would be great if it could be organised nationally to be able to pick this stuff up, sort it out and when appropriate allocate it to the heritage railway that needs it.

 

[robert0107]

Does anyone know where in the North West the next semaphore signals are going to be replaced with colour lights?
Rob

 

[matchmaker]

Does anyone know where in the North West the next semaphore signals are going to be replaced with colour lights?
Rob

Not quite the North West, but Stirling Middle will shortly be losing the largest concentration of semaphore signals in Scotland. :cry::cry::cry:

Just the signals - the box will remain in use for the moment.

 

[TDK]

With all the modernisation going on at present and the removal of the old semaphore signals does anyone know where I could obtain a complete signal to preserve in my garden?

They are not too difficult to build yourself if you cannot get one!

 

[Class172]

Apologies for the slightly off-topic post, but I didn't think it warranted a full new thread.

Over the past few weeks, I have noticed that the ladders and gantries to signals in the Worcester and Droitwich areas have been upgraded to have a more substantial (aluminium?) frame. Otherwise, the signals themselves have remained intact. However on Monday this week I noticed one of the signals (DS71) on approach to Droitwich Spa station had been replaced with a new one on the opposite site, albeit a very squat one. A picture of the signal in question is here which has been replaced with something akin to the new signals at Banbury (BS27/BS33. The old signal post is still in situ. Can anyone shed some light on why this has happened?

 

[Mugby]

If you manage to get one, will it be maintained in the off position when you're in residence?

 

[Darren R]

Does anyone know where in the North West the next semaphore signals are going to be replaced with colour lights?
Rob

Depending on your definition of 'the North West' I don't think there are many areas left still under semaphore control. I think Castleton East Jn/Rochdale area was recently converted. From memory this leaves a few on the Man Vic - Stalybridge - Diggle Jn line and between Poulton-le-Fylde and Blackpool North, both of which will soon be going as part of the various electrification projects. After that the only area still under semaphore control will be the line to Barrow-in-Furness and up the Cumbrian Coast, along with the S&C. Can't think of any more.

 

[High Dyke]

All I know is that the box in question that I can remember about was in Derbyshire but I don't know where. I shall try and find out next time I'm in Gosport.

Elmton & Creswell, between Shirebrook and Worksop maybe?

 

[lyndhurst25]

There were lists of the daily opening times of signalboxes, along with planned box closure and resignalling dates, available to download from the NetworkRail website. I'll try and find the download links or files at the weekend and post them here.

 

[Oldrowley]

Barnetby's famous semaphores look likely to be going soon. Plenty to choose from there methinks.

See http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?p=1399508&highlight=barnetby+semaphores#post1399508

 

[lyndhurst25]

www.signalbox.org/sectionc.php?year=2013
is a useful resource for the planned dates of re-signalling. Click on the dates to see what has/will be happening each year.

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/compendium-of-signal-box-opening-times.xls
lists signal-box opening times.

www.networkrail.co.uk/community/interest-groups/signalling-heritage/
is of interest too if wanting to acquire an old signal-box!