Olympics eyesore

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onein37

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Having made a recent trip from Birmingham to London I couldn't help but notice all the graffiti (tagging) sprayed on the railway infrastructure from about Willesden through to Euston. I'm guessing this is true of all the London termini approaches, but what a mess. With the Olympics upon us, what an eyesore for Olympic and non Olympic visitors to the Capital. With Mayor Boris telling us this is great moment for "London", how about he puts a few (thousand) quid Network Rails way and insists its painted out. While accepting it will gradually creep back, at least it will look alot smarter in the suburbs for the Mayors "Great Event".
 
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TheJRB

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Exactly. There would be very little point as not only would it return very quickly, it goes on for miles. On the south side it goes all the way from London Bridge to New Cross basically and there's graffiti as far out as Swanley in places. It might not be pretty, but it will have to be put up with unfortunately although it's a different story when it's actually on the trains.
 

87015

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With Mayor Boris telling us this is great moment for "London", how about he puts a few (thousand) quid Network Rails way and insists its painted out.
NR have already been give a "few quid" (millions) by the ODA/LOCOG/whoever which they have/are/should be spending tidying up linesides around London...
 

Badger

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The chemicals used to clean it can be dangerous for the local ecosystem too. Plus there's finding a time to do it.

I hate grafitti, and think the people that do it should be removed from society, but it's not really practical to get rid of it all unfortunately.
 

michael769

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Grafitti can in some cases be prevented using specialist paints or coatings. However these substances are not suitable for use on all structures so it is impossible to prevent entirely without investing in round the clock surveillance of large areas of land - involving manpower costs that it is unlikely either taxpayers nor ToCs would be willing to pay.
 

Mojo

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I agree that more should be done to remove graffiti as studies show that a concerted effort to remove graffiti in as short as possible timescale after it was put there can help to reduce ''new'' graffiti in the long run.

However, what city doesn't have graffiti on the approaches by train? Both Paris and Rome are far worse than London for vandalism. In comparison to most other major European cities I've been too, London (at least central London) is actually very clean.
 

CC 72100

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I agree that more should be done to remove graffiti as studies show that a concerted effort to remove graffiti in as short as possible timescale after it was put there can help to reduce ''new'' graffiti in the long run.

However, what city doesn't have graffiti on the approaches by train? Both Paris and Rome are far worse than London for vandalism. In comparison to most other major European cities I've been too, London (at least central London) is actually very clean.
A lot of sense there I think. I thought that Paris was particularly bad for graffiti and vandalism when I was there at the start of the month - it was almost as if they had a motto "If it can have graffiti on it, go forth and graffiti it" :|
 

Clip

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I think the graffiti will neatly sum up this country for tourists.
Im guessing you havent been out much from this country then. Because every other city in the whole wide world is perfect.

I mean when I was in Athens for their Olympics the place was pristine without any graffiti anywhere in the whole city.
 

LexyBoy

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Surely people who come for the Stratford Sports Day will want to savour the true East London experiece? Isn't that why they made the logo graffiti-friendly and got Coca-Cola and MacDonalds to sponsor it?
 

PinzaC55

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Im guessing you havent been out much from this country then. Because every other city in the whole wide world is perfect.

I mean when I was in Athens for their Olympics the place was pristine without any graffiti anywhere in the whole city.
You guess wrong. I've travelled Europe extensively and been to the States twice.

Next guess?
 

CC 72100

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Like it's been said by other members, I just don't think that London's graffiti is that bad, nor is it something that we can realistically ever eradicate. I think sometimes we can be a bit guilty of thinking that the grass is always greener on the other side, and some of our media love nothing more than to badtalk the UK.

I'll admit that the UK is far from perfect, but I feel that we have a tendency to think that everything is better everywhere else and portray that we are far worse than we actually are. I think this is an example of this.
 
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noddy1878

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I was in Paris earlier in the week and it is everywhere! What staggered me was it was in the tunnels of the Metro! And I mean between stations.
 

ex-railwayman

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Having made a recent trip from Birmingham to London I couldn't help but notice all the graffiti (tagging) sprayed on the railway infrastructure from about Willesden through to Euston. I'm guessing this is true of all the London termini approaches, but what a mess. With the Olympics upon us, what an eyesore for Olympic and non Olympic visitors to the Capital. With Mayor Boris telling us this is great moment for "London", how about he puts a few (thousand) quid Network Rails way and insists its painted out. While accepting it will gradually creep back, at least it will look alot smarter in the suburbs for the Mayors "Great Event".
I travelled on Eurostar for the first time way back in 1997, iirc, and I was appalled at the level of graffiti back then from outside London Waterloo through Lewisham, Hither Green, right down to maybe Tonbridge station, and it was never eradicated, a nice welcome to visitors from the Continent, I don't think there was a London Mayor back then, but, if there was, they never did 'owt about it, and this one never will, Olympics, or, not.

Cheerz. ex-railwayman.
 

CC 72100

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I was in Paris earlier in the week and it is everywhere! What staggered me was it was in the tunnels of the Metro! And I mean between stations.
Yep, I was shocked too when I was in Paris earlier in the month. And on the train as well, empty advertising spaces and doors graffited on. (Metro + RER, even a bit in the Montmatre funicular that you're only on for 1 minute 30!) I'm not a commuter but I go to London around once a year and I have to say the London Underground trains are kept in pretty good nick graffiti-wise. They seem very quick at getting rid of the stuff compared to their Parisian counterparts.
 

L&Y Robert

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Like it's been said by other members, I just don't think that London's graffiti is that bad, nor is it something that we can realistically ever eradicate. I think sometimes we can be a bit guilty of thinking that the grass is always greener on the other side, and some of our media love nothing more than to badtalk the UK.
Yes, it could be eradicated if we really want to. Make it illegal to posess spray-paint in a public place ("Going equipped"). To buy the stuff, you have to produce ID and then leave your details in a register at the point of sale (sort of Poisons Book approach, name, address, quantity bought, colour, purpose of purchase). Yes I know there'd be a howl from the likes of Halfords etc., but who would have thought, twenty years ago, that cigarettes . . .etc. And the penalty for doing grafitti is to be obliged to spend a week removing selected examples at the direction of the magistrate. Of course the examples along the railway also involve the offence of "Trespass on the railway" - £1000 fine I believe. Clamp down on that, for a start.

I wonder what proportion of the paint sold is used for legitimate purposes.
 

Badger

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Interesting example of railside graffiti is the old printing works in Wolverhampton, directly on approach to the station from Brum: there's a large concrete space, with a pile of bricks, that every now and then gets moved around to spell a different rude word. I thought it was quite cool, much moreso than the wall of graffiti behind it.
 

onein37

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Why would there be a howl from Halfords. It's the same hassle when buying a replacement reg plate, needing to show your log book.
 

Badger

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I buy car undercoat from Halfords for miniature modeling and I'm sure many in the railway modeling scene do too. It's cheaper and the same stuff as say, Games Workshop or Hobbycraft.
 

Bald Rick

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It's all coming off, certainly on the routes to the Olympic park. No point doing it now as it will just come back. There are still 3 months to go (minus 110 mins as I write).
 

L&Y Robert

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Interesting example of railside graffiti is the old printing works in Wolverhampton, directly on approach to the station from Brum: there's a large concrete space, with a pile of bricks, that every now and then gets moved around to spell a different rude word. I thought it was quite cool, much moreso than the wall of graffiti behind it.
There lies the problem, we, the public at large, are repared to put up with it and some of us even think its "cool", its folk-art, its youth expressing itself and so on. NO IT ISNT! Its vandalism at the public's expense, and we, the public, shrug our collective shoulders and say "C'est la vie, it doesn't really matter does it?". Yes it matters. The real villains of the piece are all of us, collectively: individuals, groups, members of local councils, government organisations, the government itself. Defacing public property is "OK" by us. But consider this: you are selling your house, the estate agent does his stuff about "2 recep., spacious hall, extensive vews and so on, and then we come to the exiting cool bit: " - and the walls and roof of this excellent property have been amply decorated in challenging hues of green, purple and blue in provocative designs by a local graffiti artist during the present owners' annual holiday".
What would you think about that, eh?
 

PinzaC55

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As a matter of interest some of my 3,500 photo's on flickr happen to include derelict railway buildings with graffiti. For this reason I sometimes have grsffiti louts favourite them or add me as a contact. Invariably I respond by blocking them.
 

PR1Berske

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Compared with the railway approaches to anywhere around Rome, I doubt there's that much of a problem.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
There lies the problem, we, the public at large, are repared to put up with it and some of us even think its "cool", its folk-art, its youth expressing itself and so on. NO IT ISNT! Its vandalism at the public's expense, and we, the public, shrug our collective shoulders and say "C'est la vie, it doesn't really matter does it?". Yes it matters. The real villains of the piece are all of us, collectively: individuals, groups, members of local councils, government organisations, the government itself. Defacing public property is "OK" by us. But consider this: you are selling your house, the estate agent does his stuff about "2 recep., spacious hall, extensive vews and so on, and then we come to the exiting cool bit: " - and the walls and roof of this excellent property have been amply decorated in challenging hues of green, purple and blue in provocative designs by a local graffiti artist during the present owners' annual holiday".
What would you think about that, eh?


I disagree with almost everything you have written

Graffiti can be beautiful, emotional, detailed, and socially important. In huge lettering outside Preston you can see "SOCIALIST WORKER", on the way into St Helens "CAN'T PAY WON'T PAY POLL TAX" - these slogans from the past are legitimate historic landmarks.

The way in which the artform has changed and developed over generations is fascinating - from scrawls to entire comic strips and back again. Banksy has utilised this to great acclaim.

I have travelled on the Rome Metro and was amazed by the extent to which every last inch of space is now spraypaint. I agree with you - ish - that there could be something done about deliberate vandalism, though there is a difference between expression and vandalism, and as such I'd rather live in a country where we allow people the right to express themselves through art and, yes, political slogans, whilst being alert to those who are simply causing criminal damage.

The witch-hunt brigade have done nothing to deal with criminality in this country. I wonder why?:roll::roll:
 

L&Y Robert

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Compared with the railway approaches to anywhere around Rome, I doubt there's that much of a problem.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---




I disagree with almost everything you have written

Graffiti can be beautiful, emotional, detailed, and socially important.

Yes, and there, in a few words, lies the problem.
Public property is the canvas for beautiful, emotional and socially important doings. There has to be some limit - for me NO GRAFFITI anywhere ever, but for some, perhaps, its OK to come out of the raiway tunnels, and, say, improve Tower Bridge with some beautiful designs, or some of the buildings in Whitehall are a bit drab - you could get some socially important messages displayed there.
 

Michael.Y

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There's a very famous piece of graffiti in Newport on a railway bridge:

"THIS IS LLISWERRY WITH TWO Ls"

which has passed into local folklore; so much so that it has lasted well over a decade at least. I pity the fool who tries to paint over it or remove it.



The fact of the matter is this is a massive fuss over nothing. What do you think will be imprinted more on the consciousness of this mythical ever-observant "visitor"? A few bits of graffiti on some lineside structure or other passing by their window at 30-50mph, or the spectacle of the games and the experience of the event itself? A social problem which exists the world over and is pretty much unavoidable, or a once-in-a-lifetime showcase featuring the best athletes in the world?

Don't think like the Daily Express people. We all know that "Outraged, 45, from Taunton" doesn't exist. Therefore, focussing on such a fallacy as graffiti as being a negative impact on the games is pointless, unless you want to drum up some column inches for your increasingly pointless fallacy of a newspaper.
 
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