Omicron variant and the measures implemented in response to it

[brad465]

This week Liverpool got their Carabao Cup semi-final first leg tie with Arsenal postponed on covid grounds, but now, just a couple of days later, are going ahead with the FA Cup tie with Shrewsbury. It will come as little surprise that foul play might exist with the club here among many, and this time that "foul play" is off the pitch.

 

[greyman42]

Introduction of VP's, and their widespread acceptance, has put us well down the path to being a society where seeking and receiving permission first is the norm, rather than being free to do whatever unless expressly forbidden in law.

As is being seen with other measures, things are very difficult to roll back once they are introduced. Someone, somewhere will demand evidence that the removal of the masks mandate does not cause any greater risk (however slight), that removal of VP's does not cause any risk. Or that the measures shouldn't be retained, just in case, of an unspecified risk or new variant.

I am still waiting to be asked for my vaccine passport for anything.
As for mask mandates, there is absolutely no chance of them being retained.

In my opinion this marks a fundamental shift in the relationship between the state and the population. Others disagree or simply don’t see the issue. I think we’ll know sooner rather than later whether the end of the pandemic sees a return to normal (with a few inevitable changes) or the advent of a new normal.

We will return to normal. What inevitable changes are you thinking off?

This week Liverpool got their Carabao Cup semi-final first leg tie with Arsenal postponed on covid grounds, but now, just a couple of days later, are going ahead with the FA Cup tie with Shrewsbury. It will come as little surprise that foul play might exist with the club here among many, and this time that "foul play" is off the pitch.

Before Liverpool's covid outbreak, they wanted the tie to be played over 1 leg and said they were happy for it to be played at Arsenal so i don't suspect foul play.

 

[hst43102]

Mark Drakeford, of all people, is criticizing Boris for "not doing enough to protect the English people".

Bit rich coming from him - especially as cases, hospitalizations and deaths per capita are higher in Wales - not to mention the mental health issues that will result from all his restrictions.

What a sorry excuse of a leader.

Covid: Drakeford accuses Johnson of failing to protect England

Mark Drakeford calls the UK government "politically paralysed" as Covid rules remain in Wales.

www.bbc.co.uk

Mark Drakeford has accused Boris Johnson of failing to take the necessary action to protect people in England from Covid.
"The one country that stands up as not taking action to protect its population is England," said the first minister.
The comments come as Mr Drakeford announced Covid restrictions would not be relaxed in Wales.
He added that England was the "outlier" in the UK when it came to Covid

 

[Merseysider]

Mark Drakeford, of all people, is criticizing Boris for "not doing enough to protect the English people".

Deflect, deflect, deflect.

 

[greyman42]

Mark Drakeford, of all people, is criticizing Boris for "not doing enough to protect the English people".

Bit rich coming from him - especially as cases, hospitalizations and deaths per capita are higher in Wales - not to mention the mental health issues that will result from all his restrictions.

What a sorry excuse of a leader.

Covid: Drakeford accuses Johnson of failing to protect England

Mark Drakeford calls the UK government "politically paralysed" as Covid rules remain in Wales.

www.bbc.co.uk

Drakeford will spout any rubbish if he thinks it puts pressure on the UK government to introduce more restrictions in England as more restrictions will justify what he has done to Wales. There is no evidence that the extra restrictions that he introduced to Wales has had any benefit and has only heaped more misery on the people and businesses of Wales.
I don't recall Johnson criticising Drakeford when he introduced additional restrictions. He should try minding his own business.

 

[Darandio]

This week Liverpool got their Carabao Cup semi-final first leg tie with Arsenal postponed on covid grounds, but now, just a couple of days later, are going ahead with the FA Cup tie with Shrewsbury. It will come as little surprise that foul play might exist with the club here among many, and this time that "foul play" is off the pitch.

Because several of the playing staff unavailable from prior to the Arsenal postponement will be out of isolation and available on Sunday. On Thursday it was a bit of a perfect storm with players still isolating that missed the fixture from the previous weekend, new cases which required isolation and both the manager and assistant manager missing.

 

[duncanp]

Mark Drakeford, of all people, is criticizing Boris for "not doing enough to protect the English people".

Bit rich coming from him - especially as cases, hospitalizations and deaths per capita are higher in Wales - not to mention the mental health issues that will result from all his restrictions.

What a sorry excuse of a leader.

Covid: Drakeford accuses Johnson of failing to protect England

Mark Drakeford calls the UK government "politically paralysed" as Covid rules remain in Wales.

www.bbc.co.uk

As the Telegraph says today, COVID cases in Wales are increasing three times faster than in England, despite having tighter restrictions.

And all you can do is harrass Chester City FC because part of their ground is in Wales, despite the club having an English postcode.

Mr Dripford really is a pathetic little <expletive deleted>

 

[yorksrob]

The First Minister of Wales is entitled to his opinion on what the other home Nations are doing.

All I will say is that as an Englishman living in England, I agree far more with the English approach than the Welsh one.

 

[greyman42]

The First Minister of Wales is entitled to his opinion on what the other home Nations are doing.

As is Boris Johnson but he chose to keep it to himself.

 

[yorksrob]

As is Boris Johnson but he chose to keep it to himself.

Indeed, although as the PM of the United Kingdom, Boris probably has a constitutional imperative not to comment on internal Welsh policy, given our particular constitutional set up !

 

[hst43102]

The First Minister of Wales is entitled to his opinion on what the other home Nations are doing.

Doesn't mean he should say anything, especially as he clearly has the wrong opinion.

 

[43066]

Deflect, deflect, deflect.

It’s clearly an emerging face saving strategy along the lines of:

“Westminster are the reckless international outliers in lifting restrictions now”;

“We in Wales are listening to [selected] scientific advisors, telling us to do what’s right by keeping restrictions, along with the rest of the world”;

(then in a few weeks months when they simply have to lift restrictions to avoid backlash due to overwhelming evidence they’re unnecessary)

“We now deem it safe to lift restrictions but, unlike reckless Boris Johnson, we waited until we could be sure/science was settled/precautionary principle”… yadda yadda.

 

[greyman42]

Indeed, although as the PM of the United Kingdom, Boris probably has a constitutional imperative not to comment on internal Welsh policy, given our particular constitutional set up !

Sturgeon and Givan have managed to keep their mouths shut as well.

 

[yorksrob]

Doesn't mean he should say anything, especially as he clearly has the wrong opinion.

True, but at least I have the feeling that the majority in England disagree with him anyway. He's speaking to a largely unreceptive audience.

Sturgeon and Givan have managed to keep their mouths shut as well.

True.

Even though I disagree with the F.M. of Wales, as an Englishman, I think it's right that our fellow Britons and their governments should be able to express an opinion over the government of the kingdom as a whole.

 

[NorthKent1989]

I am still waiting to be asked for my vaccine passport for anything.

Are you a regular theatre, concert, sports event or nightclub goer? Because you’ll be asked to show one at those events, if you are into those events and you haven’t been asked then that’s good and hopeful that the VP’s will be dropped soon.

 

[DustyBin]

We will return to normal. What inevitable changes are you thinking off?

Increased working from home for a start; that’s very much here to stay.

 

[brad465]

Like with many things in this pandemic, I think we'll have to play the long game here, the Omicron wave does now appear to be peaking through various measurements, including hospital admissions in London, Prof Tim Spector saying the ZOE study is reporting an imminent peak, and, to a lesser extent, reported cases have stalled in recent days.

Once this starts going down rapidly, all the calls for more restrictions should rapidly evaporate, concerns about levels of vaccination will diminish, and blame games will be harder to play. I reckon by the end of January these things will start to materialise. The situation in South Africa shows how rapidly things can improve.

 

[yorkie]

I am reasonably confident London has peaked but elsewhere in England I am not so sure; the rest of the country is a fair bit behind London and people going back to work, school etc could see a further rise.

Scotland, Wales and NI now see infection rates considerably greater than England, demonstrating how pointless their additional restrictions are.

Official UK Coronavirus Dashboard

GOV.UK Coronavirus dashboard

coronavirus.data.gov.uk

Cases by area (last 7 days)​

Area Rate per 100,000
Wales 2,577.6
Scotland 2,079.5
Northern Ireland 2,852.7
England 1,786.8

Restrictions are futile and are also misplaced; the current pressure is no worse (in fact arguably less worse) than in previous years, such as:

Is this NHS crisis really worse than ones before?

Winter is always the most difficult time of year. How alarming are the current problems?

www.bbc.co.uk

The headlines were terrifying. Hospitals facing intolerable pressures as patients are left dying in corridors.
It got so bad that 68 leading A&E doctors wrote to the prime minister to spell out their concerns.
This is not now though. It was the winter of 2017-18 - the last bad flu season when more than 300 people a day were dying from that virus at one point.
And that was not even a one-off...

People were not required to wear flimsy masks then, and indeed experts gave good reasons not to. There was no expectation anyone should show a flu vaccine passport to gain entry to any venue. There was no requirement or guidance to work from home. There was no army of enraged people on Twitter with cold heart logos in their usernames demanding lockdowns.

We need to get away from the current mindset that too many people have.

 

[greyman42]

Are you a regular theatre, concert, sports event or nightclub goer? Because you’ll be asked to show one at those events, if you are into those events and you haven’t been asked then that’s good and hopeful that the VP’s will be dropped soon.

I attend Premier league matches. What the policy is regarding VP's and what happens in reality when 50,000 people are turning up 10 to 15 minutes before kick off are two different things.

Increased working from home for a start; that’s very much here to stay.

I agree but that may have happened for some, regardless of Covid.

 

[brad465]

I saw somewhere else someone point that that all the texts and emails they've been getting regarding a booster, a combination from their GP surgery and nationally sent ones, has seen them be contacted by the NHS more on the issue of boosters than on any other issue for years, and how they've been let down by them as a result. I do wonder how many others will be feeling similar as a result.

 

[thaitransit]

OMIRCON more like a total disaster on December 1st we had zero covid cases of any type in Queensland with basically zero restrictions. Then on 13th December the border was opened to other parts of Australia. Today we had over 11000 new cases!

The results of this has been dangerously understaffed hospitals and now food shortages in Queensland as the food industry and its distribution network has lost more than 50% of its staff since Christmas due to being infected with bloody covid!

We should have never reopened the Queensland border or allowed Quranteen free international travel. Only Western Australia remains covid free and may have to remain closed forever to ensure a normal way of life.

 

[Bantamzen]

OMIRCON more like a total disaster on December 1st we had zero covid cases of any type in Queensland with basically zero restrictions. Then on 13th December the border was opened to other parts of Australia. Today we had over 11000 new cases!

The results of this has been dangerously understaffed hospitals and now food shortages in Queensland as the food industry and its distribution network has lost more than 50% of its staff since Christmas due to being infected with bloody covid!

We should have never reopened the Queensland border or allowed Quranteen free international travel. Only Western Australia remains covid free and may have to remain closed forever to ensure a normal way of life.

Just read that last line of your comment & see if you can see the problem....

 

[philosopher]

Increased working from home for a start; that’s very much here to stay.

I agree there will be increased working from home but apart from that I think little else will change. Working from home does not directly affect most adults. In the autumn, other than work, things seemed largely back to the way there were in 2019. Shops, pubs, cinema, restaurants were all busy again, tourists were beginning to return and stuff like virtual drinks were on their way out. The majority of people seemed to have gone back to their pre Covid lifestyles in terms of socialising, holidays and entertainments.

Greater working from home though will have quite a big impact though, such as where people choose to live, transport and city centres. The increase in house prices over the past year seems to have been a direct impact of greater working from home, due to people wanting larger homes further from their office.

 

[DustyBin]

OMIRCON more like a total disaster on December 1st we had zero covid cases of any type in Queensland with basically zero restrictions. Then on 13th December the border was opened to other parts of Australia. Today we had over 11000 new cases!

The results of this has been dangerously understaffed hospitals and now food shortages in Queensland as the food industry and its distribution network has lost more than 50% of its staff since Christmas due to being infected with bloody covid!

We should have never reopened the Queensland border or allowed Quranteen free international travel. Only Western Australia remains covid free and may have to remain closed forever to ensure a normal way of life.

A contradiction surely?!

The key to achieving normality is reaching endemic equilibrium and living with the virus, restriction free.

 

[BRX]

Restrictions are futile and are also misplaced; the current pressure is no worse (in fact arguably less worse) than in previous years, such as:

Is this NHS crisis really worse than ones before?

Winter is always the most difficult time of year. How alarming are the current problems?

www.bbc.co.uk

People were not required to wear flimsy masks then, and indeed experts gave good reasons not to. There was no expectation anyone should show a flu vaccine passport to gain entry to any venue. There was no requirement or guidance to work from home. There was no army of enraged people on Twitter with cold heart logos in their usernames demanding lockdowns.

We need to get away from the current mindset that too many people have.

So... in past years we had flu, and no modifications to behaviour, and an NHS crisis.

This year we have covid, with some modifications to behaviour (masks, WFH, etc) and an NHS crisis "no worse".

Your conclusion from this is that the modifications to behaviour make no difference, rather than that the underlying potential for impact is worse with Covid. You seem to be discounting the possibility that without the current modifications to behaviour, the pressure we currently see in the NHS would be even worse.

 

[Merseysider]

Western Australia ... may have to remain closed forever to ensure a normal way of life.

And you’d be happy with that? Good Lord.

 

[brad465]

We've now officially passed the 150,000 deaths within 28 days of a positive test threshold:

Covid: UK records more than 150,000 deaths

The UK is the seventh country to pass this number, after the US, Brazil, India, Russia, Mexico and Peru.

www.bbc.co.uk

More than 150,000 people in the UK have now died within 28 days of a positive Covid test since the pandemic began.
A further 313 deaths were reported in the government's daily figures on Saturday, taking the total to 150,057.
The UK is the seventh country to pass 150,000 deaths, after the US, Brazil, India, Russia, Mexico and Peru.
Some 146,390 new cases have also been recorded in the UK, with the more transmissible Omicron variant driving a surge in infections.

Of course what's worth remembering is, not only is this including those who tested positive, but not necessarily dying because of covid, but the 100,000 threshold was reached around a year ago after 10 months. It's taken another year to get half that, which is a test to the success of vaccines.

 

[Eyersey468]

We've now officially passed the 150,000 deaths within 28 days of a positive test threshold:

Covid: UK records more than 150,000 deaths

The UK is the seventh country to pass this number, after the US, Brazil, India, Russia, Mexico and Peru.

www.bbc.co.uk

Of course what's worth remembering is, not only is this including those who tested positive, but not necessarily dying because of covid, but the 100,000 threshold was reached around a year ago after 10 months. It's taken another year to get half that, which is a test to the success of vaccines.

Another thing not mentioned of course is how many people have died in that time from non Covid related causes

 

[brad465]

Another thing not mentioned of course is how many people have died in that time from non Covid related causes

And in the last 6 months the ONS have been reporting excess deaths where covid isn't what's putting us in excess...

 

[Eyersey468]

And in the last 6 months the ONS have been reporting excess deaths where covid isn't what's putting us in excess...

Indeed. But only Covid matters.