On the All-Wales Express

[CC 72100]

Excuse me for my ignorance, I haven't really been following this much although I'd be interested to know, which digrams will now be loco-hauled following the changes, and when do these changes come into effect? Thanks

 

[anthony263]

Changes come into affect from September and the ATW diagram is supposed to be: 05:32 Holyhead - Cardiff (Arr 09:59) & 18:21 Cardiff - Holyhead (Arr 10:55) although we could hope that they would find some use at other times

 

[Gareth Marston]

The Cambrian is only every 2 hours and there are connections from the South to all these so no problem.

Check out the lack of connections to Wrexham/Chester/N Wales/Liverpool folk don't always just want to go to Cardiff. There's fare more latent untapped demand from Mid Wales to go North than their is to Cardiff.

 

[6Gman]

Check out the lack of connections to Wrexham/Chester/N Wales/Liverpool folk don't always just want to go to Cardiff. There's fare more latent untapped demand from Mid Wales to go North than their is to Cardiff.

Yes, but the Welsh Assembly Government is in Cardiff so we have to pretend that's where everyone wants to go !!

 

[Gareth Marston]

Yes, but the Welsh Assembly Government is in Cardiff so we have to pretend that's where everyone wants to go !!

Theirs 29 direct trains a day from Shrewsbury to Cardiff - so theirs another one along soon you can prioritize northbound connections without having any effect southbound. Demand to Manchester is greater than other destinations via change at Shrewsbury. Even with 45 minute waits theirs clumps of folk waiting whereas I'm often the only one doing Cardiff/Mid Wales.

 

[merlodlliw]

Theirs 29 direct trains a day from Shrewsbury to Cardiff - so theirs another one along soon you can prioritize northbound connections without having any effect southbound. Demand to Manchester is greater than other destinations via change at Shrewsbury. Even with 45 minute waits theirs clumps of folk waiting whereas I'm often the only one doing Cardiff/Mid Wales.

Indeed and if you are about to fly onwards from Mid Wales via train through Salop,Cardiff is not an option, its either Birmingham or Manchester.
I have never met anyone from North Wales even consider flying via Cardiff,why should they.

Bob

 

[PHILIPE]

Indeed and if you are about to fly onwards from Mid Wales via train through Salop,Cardiff is not an option, its either Birmingham or Manchester.
I have never met anyone from North Wales even consider flying via Cardiff,why should they.

Bob

People from South Wales don't even fly from Cardiff now. They prefer Bristol. The Airport is owned by a Spanish Company who don't seem very interested in it.

 

[merlodlliw]

I understand Cardiff airport is losing customers & airlines and is in a shambolic state,a few with ears on the ground tell me that's why Wagair is still flying to it as a costly taxpayers token of support by WG.

Bob
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And more info & pictures in this weeks http://www.nwrail.org.uk/nwnews.htm

all three 67s seen in action,six ex cargo D mark three 1st open coaches are also numbered in the above link

 

[jones_bangor]

all three 67s seen in action,six ex cargo D mark three 1st open coaches are also numbered in the above link

Perhaps the First Class seating will be throughout......

Cardiff Airport does seem to be in a poor position, dwindling revenue and competing against the much better connected Bristol. Bristol just has huge benefits in terms of catchment area, difficult to see things improving for Cardiff.

 

[anthony263]

A photo of one of the ATW mk3's:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/turners_pics/7313302292/in/contacts/

 

[merlodlliw]

A photo of one of the ATW mk3's:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/turners_pics/7313302292/in/contacts/

The copy says refurbished,doors to be fitted I presume, will they be powered plug ins or slam type


Bob

 

[anthony263]

I am not sure I would like to hope they will fit powered doors although wouldnt the stock have gone to the same place where Chiltern had their Mk3's done unless the WG wanted it done in Cardiff

 

[SprinterMan]

I am not sure I would like to hope they will fit powered doors although wouldnt the stock have gone to the same place where Chiltern had their Mk3's done unless the WG wanted it done in Cardiff

From what I have heard, they will retain slam-doors.

Adam

 

[tirphil]

Check out the lack of connections to Wrexham/Chester/N Wales/Liverpool folk don't always just want to go to Cardiff. There's fare more latent untapped demand from Mid Wales to go North than their is to Cardiff.

Connection time from the Cambrian to Wrexham and the north Wales coast is an absolute shocking 59 minutes. Is it beyond the wit of timetable planners to do something about that.

 

[merlodlliw]

I am not sure I would like to hope they will fit powered doors although wouldnt the stock have gone to the same place where Chiltern had their Mk3's done unless the WG wanted it done in Cardiff

Suppose ATW would have to get three quotes(),plus its down the road from WG,so the work can be shown off by the High & Mighty at ATW to the Minister to show where some of the the £3.5 millions subsidy is being spent.
I see Pulman rail was sold last week to the French firm Colas, no doubt the contract from DB for the WAG was helpful in selling it.

link http://www.walesonline.co.uk/busine...m-snapped-up-by-multinational-91466-31016841/

 

[jones_bangor]

It looks to me like the doors and windows have been taken out for the repaint.

 

[PHILIPE]

Connection time from the Cambrian to Wrexham and the north Wales coast is an absolute shocking 59 minutes. Is it beyond the wit of timetable planners to do something about that.

There is possibly a difficulty here due to the Cambrian formed of single line sections. Any retiming can react on paths all the way to Birmingham International. Unfortunately, perhaps, you could "fix" one route connection but possibly have to destroy another one to do it.

 

[merlodlliw]

It looks to me like the doors and windows have been taken out for the repaint.

Yes that looks the case, so slam doors it seems, another bit of fun here
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/nor...-axing-of-gerallt-gymro-train-55578-31096417/

Having watched the saga unfold from day one,I dont ever recall IWJ speaking of two Premier class trains Holyhead to Cardiff, the 175 was via Wrexham was temporary and Gerald was also via Crewe temporary, until the route via Wrexham was up & running, I have found nothing in the budgets to say there would be two down premier Wags to Cardiff.
IWJ paid ATW £3.5millions to access stock for the 67/DVT Also
Paid ATW £2.2 million a year to run Gerald to Dec 2011(now extended to Sept 2012 at a prorata rate this is kept quiet)
Paid ATW £650K to run a 175 May to Dec 2011(now extended to Sept £500K)
The new Minister has signed off £1.9 millions subsidy for a years running cost of the 67.
To run Gerald & the 67 would need over £4million subsidy a year,I can not find this amount even been discussed for Open Access by IWJ

Its all Politics

 

[jones_bangor]

Yes that looks the case, so slam doors it seems, another bit of fun here
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/nor...-axing-of-gerallt-gymro-train-55578-31096417/

Having watched the saga unfold from day one,I dont ever recall IWJ speaking of two Premier class trains Holyhead to Cardiff, the 175 was via Wrexham was temporary and Gerald was also via Crewe temporary, until the route via Wrexham was up & running, I have found nothing in the budgets to say there would be two down premier Wags to Cardiff.
IWJ paid ATW £3.5millions to access stock for the 67/DVT Also
Paid ATW £2.2 million a year to run Gerald to Dec 2011(now extended to Sept 2012 at a prorata rate this is kept quiet)
Paid ATW £650K to run a 175 May to Dec 2011(now extended to Sept £500K)
The new Minister has signed off £1.9 millions subsidy for a years running cost of the 67.
To run Gerald & the 67 would need over £4million subsidy a year,I can not find this amount even been discussed for Open Access by IWJ

Its all Politics

The obvious solution is to extend the 16:15 to Holyhead, an 158 or 175 would be adequate, this doesn't need to be LHCS, although the mark 2s are there.

Presumably Welsh money is being used to run the Cardiff - Chester "commuter service" beyond the franchise terminus of Abergavenny (or are ATW throwing this is an as a "freebie"). All questions for Mr Sargeant to answer.

 

[Michael.Y]

I'm not defending IWJ, but:

10 March 2011
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-east-wales-12692948

A north-south rail service that takes in Wrexham will begin in May, the assembly government has said.

A second Arriva Trains Wales "express" service will run once a day between Holyhead and Cardiff and back.

The service will stop at Wrexham in both directions, unlike the first service started in December 2008.....

......The new service, costing £620,000 to run until December when a different locomotive will be used, will run Monday to Friday and take four hours and 17 minutes......

.....From December, the new service will use a locomotive and carriages similar to those used on the first north-south service, Y Gerallt Gymro, including a first-class carriage and dining facilities.

 

[jones_bangor]

I'm not defending IWJ, but:

10 March 2011
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-east-wales-12692948

A north-south rail service that takes in Wrexham will begin in May, the assembly government has said.

A second Arriva Trains Wales "express" service will run once a day between Holyhead and Cardiff and back.

The service will stop at Wrexham in both directions, unlike the first service started in December 2008.....

......The new service, costing £620,000 to run until December when a different locomotive will be used, will run Monday to Friday and take four hours and 17 minutes......

.....From December, the new service will use a locomotive and carriages similar to those used on the first north-south service, Y Gerallt Gymro, including a first-class carriage and dining facilities.

I agree with what's inferred - Carl Sargeant is cutting the North - South service, there's no hiding from that fact.

 

[RobShipway]

I agree with what's inferred - Carl Sargeant is cutting the North - South service, there's no hiding from that fact.

Carl Sargeant I presume is someone that does not take the train himself and does not like trains or think that the £500,000 would actually be worth it to cut pollution in Wales?

I note that the single train now stops in Flint, but from the details I have seen it does not stop in Prestatyn if I am correct which is a larger town than Flint!!

 

[jones_bangor]

Carl Sargeant I presume is someone that does not take the train himself and does not like trains or think that the £500,000 would actually be worth it to cut pollution in Wales?

I note that the single train now stops in Flint, but from the details I have seen it does not stop in Prestatyn if I am correct which is a larger town than Flint!!

£500,000 pounds, maybe some of that will be going towards electrifying Cardiff - Swansea!!!
Plaid would be wise to remember how long Labour maintained the cherished "One Wales" commitments!

 

[merlodlliw]

Carl Sargeant I presume is someone that does not take the train himself and does not like trains or think that the £500,000 would actually be worth it to cut pollution in Wales?

I note that the single train now stops in Flint, but from the details I have seen it does not stop in Prestatyn if I am correct which is a larger town than Flint!!

I dont want to get political,, but Minister Sargeant, in charge of rail although having a WG driver & Company car at his disposal , is seen on the train on occasions,as far as Flint is concerned Wag1 Gerald stopped there,
As for Prestatyn & Colwyn Bay even bigger the idea was a stop in each County, so Conwy had The Junction & Denbighshire had Rhyl, the thorn was Wrexham the biggest town in North Wales, for operational reasons (ATWs idea was to use Crewe, although a path was identified via Wrexham when WAG1 used two 57s,one at each end).

As for the saving on the 175, this service was time expired, the ORR & others were unhappy a franchise train was being used for open access, ATW were in fact being double funded.

All in the past now, in fact Wrexham only gains a better type of train, but loses two Bank Holiday services,why do I think a certain ATW Directior in Cardiff still has the knife in Wrexham for supporting W/S, my opinion of course.

PPS I wonder if ATW will be supplying free coffee on Chester station tomorrow evening between 8.15p.m. & 9.22p.m. for stranded pax

Bob

 

[jones_bangor]

As for the saving on the 175, this service was time expired, the ORR & others were unhappy a franchise train was being used for open access, ATW were in fact being double funded.

All in the past now, in fact Wrexham only gains a better type of train, but loses two Bank Holiday services,why do I think a certain ATW Directior in Cardiff still has the knife in Wrexham for supporting W/S, my opinion of course.

Well, strictly speaking, a 175 / 158 will still be used for "open access" between Abergavenny and Chester, and then promptly be left in the sidings or the Alstom works overnight instead of continuing to Holyhead.....

(I refer to the 16:15 Cardiff Central to Abergavenny, extended at Welsh taxpayers* expense to Chester only?). Time for the precise costings of the new arrangements to be itemised.

*I accept that is not strictly correct, but it conveys the point....

 

[merlodlliw]

Well, strictly speaking, a 175 / 158 will still be used for "open access" between Abergavenny and Chester, and then promptly be left in the sidings or the Alstom works overnight instead of continuing to Holyhead.....

(I refer to the 16:15 Cardiff Central to Abergavenny, extended at Welsh taxpayers* expense to Chester only?). Time for the precise costings of the new arrangements to be itemised.

*I accept that is not strictly correct, but it conveys the point....

Yes they have to provide a franchise to Abergavenny, as Gerald took its path,I reckon once in Salop it will be one of the hourly stoppers,Salop to Crewe,then replace an half hourly to Chester.Wait for the big boasts from ATW an extra service, in fact Abergavenny to Salop will only be new,but what will ATW chop to make up for this,after the BHO cuts on the Salop to Chester line are an example of "they may not notice" but we did. Ill watch the ORR website ATW have to get permission to run Abergavenny to Salop

Bob
My moneys on a 150

 

[jones_bangor]

Yes they have to provide a franchise to Abergavenny, as Gerald took its path,I reckon once in Salop it will be one of the hourly stoppers,Salop to Crewe,then replace an half hourly to Chester.Wait for the big boasts from ATW an extra service, in fact Abergavenny to Salop will only be new,but what will ATW chop to make up for this,after the BHO cuts on the Salop to Chester line are an example of "they may not notice" but we did. Ill watch the ORR website ATW have to get permission to run Abergavenny to Salop
My moneys on a 150

I sense stormy waters for Mr Sargeant - hope he's been open and honest with Carwyn about the small details.

 

[merlodlliw]

I sense stormy waters for Mr Sargeant - hope he's been open and honest with Carwyn about the small details.

Interesting times ahead, but I am still lost on why ATW have hired in three 67s for one train,will one be parked up at Salop, just in case, anybody know how many DVTs have been hired in.


Bob

 

[SprinterMan]

Interesting times ahead, but I am still lost on why ATW have hired in three 67s for one train,will one be parked up at Salop, just in case, anybody know how many DVTs have been hired in.


Bob

3 DVTs have been acquired.
82306 - http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7239/7262657108_8688cc705a_z.jpg
82307 - http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7248/7048593249_38ece1d788_z.jpg
82308 - http://www.flickr.com/photos/turners_pics/6817930062/in/photostream/
Adam

 

[Michael.Y]

Interesting times ahead, but I am still lost on why ATW have hired in three 67s for one train,will one be parked up at Salop, just in case, anybody know how many DVTs have been hired in.


Bob

Set 1: Express
Set 2: Spare in case of mechanical failure
Set 3: No-one knows yet, although the Fishguard Flyer has been mooted.