On the All-Wales Express

[Chester025]

Presumably when the 67s and DVTs were being procured, 4 x LHCS diagrams were very much on the cards.

And what were they going to be?

 

[Michael.Y]

Two Geralds, plus the other two which may or may not commence in September and/or December.

 

[jones_bangor]

Given that there will be a gap between Gerald arriving at 0958 and departing at 1818, there's plenty of room for another movement....

But this argument's been done to death...why pay the high track access for a handful of passengers when a DMU will be fine?

 

[Michael.Y]

But this argument's been done to death...why pay the high track access for a handful of passengers when a DMU will be fine?

Pass.

 

[merlodlliw]

Two Geralds, plus the other two which may or may not commence in September and/or December.

Im lost here, The enhanced service starting via Wrexham, if NR give permission,still awaited, The Minister has not earmarked any future funding(£2millions) for another enhanced service in the budget.

September sees the three new services,
67/DVT, DMU Wrexham to Salop to pick up those losing the Birmingham service,and the CDF to Chester(replacing Geralds stops to Abergavenny)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

But this argument's been done to death...why pay the high track access for a handful of passengers when a DMU will be fine?

I agree with you, although a waste of stock downtime, but what can be done with it,ATW wont pay for it to run.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Presumably when the 67s and DVTs were being procured, 4 x LHCS diagrams were very much on the cards.

That will now just be 2 x LHCS diagrams, which makes sense.

Nope, that doesn't make the slightest bit of sense whatsoever. How can 3 locos and 3 DVTs make 4 diagrams?

Perhaps initally 2 LHCS diagrams were on the cards (so two locos and two DVTs in service, plus a spare loco and DVT). Maybe now they have decided it will only be one LHCS diagram, so they no longer need 67001 and one of the DVTs (the other two DVTs and 67s 2&3 will still be needed with ATW, 1x67 and 1xDVT in service on the one and only expected diagram (Holyhead - Cardiff via Wrexham) and 1x67 and 1xDVT spare). Alternativly, maybe there will be two ATW LHCS diagrams and 67001 and the third ATW DVT will be available to both ATW and Chiltern as a spare.

As I've posted here: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?p=1145804#post1145804 RI have reported that 67001 will be in use with Chiltern from December. Perhaps Arriva have decided that 2 locos is enough for their operations?

If there is only one diagram (Holyhead - Cardiff via Wrexham) as most of you seem to expect, then I would think two locos is what ATW need for their operations.

But this argument's been done to death...why pay the high track access for a handful of passengers when a DMU will be fine?

That depends what you use the LHCS on. Some franchise workings from Llandudno and Swansea to Manchester carry far more than a handful of passengers and even a 3-car 175 DMU is not always fine. Using LHCS would be benifitial for relieving overcrowding I'm sure. On the other hand, from what I've read on here the current WAG2 175 southbound slot carries just a handful of passengers and if so paying for LHCS on that service would probably be a waste.

 

[PHILIPE]

ATW are never going to use LHCS on anything but the WG as long as a Unit is available, whatever case one might pit forward, only if WG pay for it. They would not want to pay higher Track access charges.

 

[jones_bangor]

ATW are never going to use LHCS on anything but the WG as long as a Unit is available, whatever case one might pit forward, only if WG pay for it. They would not want to pay higher Track access charges.

Exactly.

The reason the 16:21 Cardiff to Chester terminates there, and not further, is that ATW demanded more subsidy to continue to Holyhead as it was not "commercially viable".

 

[anthony263]

I have noticed the 05:04 Carmarthen - Manchester service seems to be booked for a class 150 between Carmarthen and Cardiff and sometimes all the way to Manchester.

Sadly the class 150's really struggle to keep to the timetable and are frequently held outside canton to allow a replacement depot to come out from the depot. This does annoy some passenger including myself who have to get a connecting valley lines services like what happened this morning when I just about made the 06:55 to Barry Island which I was traveling on to Grangetown

In fact last friday the unit was held for 16 minutes near canton and didnt arrive into Cardiff central station til 07:01 annoying a number of passengers intending on getting the 06:55 FGW service to London Paddington (Lets just say ATW & Network rail got a few bills for taxi's)

 

[PHILIPE]

The train is booked for a 158 throughout on a temporary basis to replace 175002 (Llanboidy collision) which should hopefully return later this month. Very often there is a shortage of 158s and it might very well be that a 150 substitutes. In practice they can run to Manchester and back without losing time.

 

[merlodlliw]

I have just been given the stations the evening Wag ex DVT/67will call at, now confirmed on Nat Rail. The Up out of Wrexham is still a mish mash

Calling points
Newport (South Wales)

Abergavenny [AGV]

Shrewsbury [SHR] arrives 2004
Gobowen [GOB]
Wrexham General [WRX] arrives 2041
Chester [CTR]
Flint [FLN]
Rhyl [RHL]
Colwyn Bay [CWB]
Llandudno Junction [LLJ]
Bangor (Gwynedd) [BNG]

so Chirk & Ruabon is out of the equation, presume they will catch the 2024 off Salop, Gobowen(Shropshire) is a common sense stop.

Heres the Up morning DVT stops

Calling points
Bangor (Gwynedd) [BNG]
Llandudno Junction [LLJ]
Colwyn Bay [CWB]
Rhyl [RHL]
Flint [FLN]
Chester [CTR] 07:15
Wrexham General [WRX] 07:32
Shrewsbury [SHR]
Newport (South Wales) [NWP]

 

[Chester025]

Still no Hereford then?

 

[merlodlliw]

Still no Hereford then?

No, even though Hereford is a WG/ATW managed hub

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I think the reason that has always been banded about for Hereford's omission from the various expresses is that they exist to act as a North-South fast service, calling at Hereford would only encourage local traffic, plus add time onto the journey (though quite why they say that then include Cwmbran and Abergavenny on the evening service I don't know, however to me it makes sense in principal).

For the record, I did the existing WAG 2 via Wrexham southbound one Wednesday morning a few weeks ago. I joined at Chester (it was a 2-car 175), and it was 40-50% full as far as Gobowen (about 10-20 joined / alighted at Wrexham General), where a good 20-30 were waiting, most of whom left at Shrewsbury. We carried on after that with maybe my carriage 20% full, which didn't improve at Newport. I note that at Ruabon and Chirk, the northbound platforms were significantly busier than the southbound ones.

 

[Michael.Y]

(though quite why they say that then include Cwmbran and Abergavenny on the evening service I don't know, however to me it makes sense in principal).

Because WAG1 took the path of a franchise-required evening service from Cardiff to Abergavenny (which still exists on a Saturday). Therefore it needed to serve it to maintain franchise commitments.

 

[PHILIPE]

I think the reason that has always been banded about for Hereford's omission from the various expresses is that they exist to act as a North-South fast service, calling at Hereford would only encourage local traffic, plus add time onto the journey (though quite why they say that then include Cwmbran and Abergavenny on the evening service I don't know, however to me it makes sense in principal).

For the record, I did the existing WAG 2 via Wrexham southbound one Wednesday morning a few weeks ago. I joined at Chester (it was a 2-car 175), and it was 40-50% full as far as Gobowen (about 10-20 joined / alighted at Wrexham General), where a good 20-30 were waiting, most of whom left at Shrewsbury. We carried on after that with maybe my carriage 20% full, which didn't improve at Newport. I note that at Ruabon and Chirk, the northbound platforms were significantly busier than the southbound ones.

I think the reason the WG doesn't stop at Hereford is because it is an English station. It stops at Amwythig (Shrewsbury) though because it is the connectional point for the Cambrian and is used as convenient central location for bodies from Wales to meet.

 

[Michael.Y]

Also Shropshire used to once be Wales.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Why would that affect a train service calling there in 2012?

 

[Michael.Y]

Why would that affect a train service calling there in 2012?

Humorous aside my dear fellow. It's about as tenuously valid a reason as any for the All-Wales express to call there as opposed to Hereford.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Sorry, at times it is hard to tell sarcasm from humour from seriousness on forums!

 

[Michael.Y]

Sorry, at times it is hard to tell sarcasm from humour from seriousness on forums!

We need one of these

 

[merlodlliw]

I think the reason the WG doesn't stop at Hereford is because it is an English station. It stops at Amwythig (Shrewsbury) though because it is the connectional point for the Cambrian and is used as convenient central location for bodies from Wales to meet.

Hereford is like Shrewsbury a border station,managed by ATW on behalf of the Welsh Government. The down DVT/67 will stop at Gobowen another border station again managed by ATW on behalf of Welsh Government.
Never try to understand the logic of politicians who pay for this open access service.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I think the reason that has always been banded about for Hereford's omission from the various expresses is that they exist to act as a North-South fast service, calling at Hereford would only encourage local traffic, plus add time onto the journey (though quite why they say that then include Cwmbran and Abergavenny on the evening service I don't know, however to me it makes sense in principal).

For the record, I did the existing WAG 2 via Wrexham southbound one Wednesday morning a few weeks ago. I joined at Chester (it was a 2-car 175), and it was 40-50% full as far as Gobowen (about 10-20 joined / alighted at Wrexham General), where a good 20-30 were waiting, most of whom left at Shrewsbury. We carried on after that with maybe my carriage 20% full, which didn't improve at Newport. I note that at Ruabon and Chirk, the northbound platforms were significantly busier than the southbound ones.

Your comments about Wag2, are exactly mine, once it gets to Shrewsbury it empties, with few remaining on board to Cardiff,the service will only be missed by those who never used it,the welcome return of the local stopper to Birmingham will replace Wag2

 

[PHILIPE]

A summary of all September alterations can be found in new thread "ATW Track Access Application! on General Discussion Board. Apart from the WG itself, there are many alterations which involving swopping abd starting services from Holyhead, Bangor, Llandudno, Llandudno Jn and Llandudno.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Also Shropshire used to once be Wales.

Which of the following places is in Wales and which in England:
Llanyblodwel
Horseman's Green
It's the reverse of what you'd expect.

And is Kinnerton in Wales or England? Both.
Marchers don't care about the border and enjoy both sides.

 

[voyagerdude220]

Sorry to ask when it's probably been covered, but does anyone know what level of catering will be available in FC after September on whatever service the loco set ends up running? I really like the current Wag1 restaurant. Shame I can't use it alot, with me not living in Wales.

 

[Michael.Y]

Just perusing the timetables for September to December available online at arrivatrainswales.co.uk/timetables and they give a slightly different picture to what Bob's posted:

0533 off HHD: Calling at Bangor, Llandudno J, Rhyl, Fflint, Chester, Crewe, Shrewsbury, Hereford, Newport, Cardiff.

1821 off CDF: Calling at Newport, Abergavenny, Hereford, Shrewsbury, Gobowen, Wrexham G, Chester, Flint, Rhyl, Colwyn Bay, Llandudno J, Bangor and Holyhead.

 

[merlodlliw]

Just perusing the timetables for September to December available online at arrivatrainswales.co.uk/timetables and they give a slightly different picture to what Bob's posted:

0533 off HHD: Calling at Bangor, Llandudno J, Rhyl, Fflint, Chester, Crewe, Shrewsbury, Hereford, Newport, Cardiff.

1821 off CDF: Calling at Newport, Abergavenny, Hereford, Shrewsbury, Gobowen, Wrexham G, Chester, Flint, Rhyl, Colwyn Bay, Llandudno J, Bangor and Holyhead.

Table number one & four shows the WAG via Wrexham on the up , as expected. Not Crewe, I will agree table four is confusing.

Bob

 

[Michael.Y]

Table number one & four shows the WAG via Wrexham on the up , as expected. Not Crewe, I will agree table four is confusing.

Bob

I'm looking at the "Summary of North Wales - South Wales Services" lists in Timetable 2 (purple). Just looked at 1 (red) and it shows Wrexham on the morning journey as you say.

Another thing which indicates a mistake on the timetable's part is the lack of 1st Class and Dining symbols on the 1821 service in Timetable 2 and Timetable 4 (orange)

 

[voyagerdude220]

I can confirm that the restaurant service will still be running on the 1821. I'm currently on Wag1, the food has been fantastic as always. I've used it around 10+ times, always been impressed.

 

[merlodlliw]

I'm looking at the "Summary of North Wales - South Wales Services" lists in Timetable 2 (purple). Just looked at 1 (red) and it shows Wrexham on the morning journey as you say.

Another thing which indicates a mistake on the timetable's part is the lack of 1st Class and Dining symbols on the 1821 service in Timetable 2 and Timetable 4 (orange)

Good Morning Michael.
The timetables are a shambles, who on earth proof read them,the Company cat.
They seem to have lifted what was in the May timetable & yes why insert six BHX when there are none,has you pointed out after I had gone for the gun
What we are picking up are two more pointers to make life miserable on the Chester/Salop line.
When the down WAG is not running on BHX through Wrexham, no replacement is shown,so another two hour gap,why have they not redirected the Birmingham that gave up its path to the Wag,this occurs with WAG2 currently, passengers from Chirk Ruabon and Gobowen will have longer journey times if the timetable is to be believed.

The important 08.02 off Gobowen is re-timed to 08.07. (Earlier at Ruabon and Chirk) and now appears to connect into the LM stopper service giving an arrival time of 09.55 instead of 0926.
This is opposite to the blurb/spin put out as trailers by ATW.

ATW/WG Rail Unit have finally discovered Hereford hub station actually exists on the Marches line,someone must have told them they manage it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I can confirm that the restaurant service will still be running on the 1821. I'm currently on Wag1, the food has been fantastic as always. I've used it around 10+ times, always been impressed.

Anyone heard yet if the Food will be a separate payment & first Class will be just First Class,

with permission from North Wales Rail newsboard
There are football matches taking place in Cardiff from 25 July onwards as part of the Olympics, and Arriva Trains Wales have put up a special page with details and arrangements for passengers, although not being official sponsors, the absurd rules prevent them from mentioning the Olympic Games by name. We have heard that the loco-hauled train is to be used for some workings connected to the Olympics, but the website does not appear to mention this.

I wonder will we see the DVT via Wrexham on these workings?

Later. All ATW timetables for Sept/Dec have been removed from the web