Onboard vending machine

[PupCuff]

There’s also an issue with H&S legislation insisting that drinks being carried on a train were kept in bags and with lids on.

I'm close to 100% certain there's no H&S law which says that drinks being carried on a train have to be done so kept in bags and with lids. It's very definitely a sensible thing to do (I buy a coffee each morning from Costa and more days than not I end up with at least a few drops of hot coffee over my hand, alas I'll never learn) but it isn't illegal to not do it.

 

[Sprinter107]

I cannot remember which set(s) it was but at least one class 150 had a tea/coffee vending machine fitted in what was at the time the lockable mail/parcels area.

It most certainly did when it was quite new. 4 seats got taken out to make room for it. It wasnt in for very long. Only one set was fitted, and themat was 150133

 

[MikePJ]

One of the big issues with vending machines historically has been cash handling. It's expensive and time-consuming to pay people to empty the machine of cash, and the machine has to resist attempts to break it open - the cash is a more tempting target than the product. Now, with contactless, it's easier to produce cashless vending machines, although for rail use they would need to be capable of authorising the card "offline", as otherwise it would refuse service in phone coverage blackspots.

Having worked on the design of coffee machines in the past, they are an absolute engineering nightmare because the internals clog up with coffee grounds, milk powder, chocolate powder, etc. The good ones (like the Costa machines) require a surprising amount of attention from site staff, and regular visits from visiting maintenance engineers. The only truly reliable machines are those that use a disposable pod or pouch, but these then generate lots of plastic waste... I do agree with a previous poster that the Lavazza ones make the nicest coffee though!

 

[philthetube]

I'm close to 100% certain there's no H&S law which says that drinks being carried on a train have to be done so kept in bags and with lids. It's very definitely a sensible thing to do (I buy a coffee each morning from Costa and more days than not I end up with at least a few drops of hot coffee over my hand, alas I'll never learn) but it isn't illegal to not do it.

Strongly advise buying a reusable cup, save 25p daily, good ones are nicer to drink from and you are less likely to spill any coffee, not to mention environmental benefits as well.

Sorry mods, bit of thread drift there.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

It most certainly did when it was quite new. 4 seats got taken out to make room for it. It wasnt in for very long. Only one set was fitted, and themat was 150133

Never knew about this, every day is a schoolday!

Does anyone have any recollection of how the "Puccino's" coffee bars on the Brighton Express 319s worked? I only remember riding them when they'd been taken out of use but with the lounge style seating area and counter still in place.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Never knew about this, every day is a schoolday!

Does anyone have any recollection of how the "Puccino's" coffee bars on the Brighton Express 319s worked? I only remember riding them when they'd been taken out of use but with the lounge style seating area and counter still in place.

They were just a trolley dock.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

They were just a trolley dock.

Was that the case right from the start? This could be a false memory but in my head I'm seeing a flat counter area which had holes drilled in, that looked like they were anchor points for some sort of espresso machine. The brand Puccino's ran many outlets on stations around London at around the turn of the millennium, and with all the branding (they were among the pioneers of the marketing tactic known as "wackaging"!) that was in place it looked like a bit more effort had been put in.

Sounds like typical late-BR/Connex half-measures if all they did was park a trolley there!

 

[hexagon789]

Never knew about this, every day is a schoolday!

Does anyone have any recollection of how the "Puccino's" coffee bars on the Brighton Express 319s worked? I only remember riding them when they'd been taken out of use but with the lounge style seating area and counter still in place.

Just a trolley parked up in the counter area, same arrangement as BR Mk2 micro-buffet cars

 

[dubscottie]

There’s also an issue with H&S legislation insisting that drinks being carried on a train were kept in bags and with lids on.

99% sure that is a fraud thing. Its why they started selling stuff in pre-packed branded cups etc. Crews used to buy their own bread, ham, tea bags etc and sell the stuff at BR rates making a massive profit.

A lad I was at school with got a job pushing a trolley on ScotRail trains. He got sacked as he got caught buying tons of Kit-Kats in WH Smith in Waverley and selling them on the train at train prices.

 

[ATW Alex 101]

In some areas of the network, on-board vending machines are just asking for trouble and are likely to be vandalised or broken into. Then, as mentioned already, the issue of cash and who collects it. You could get around that, I suppose, by making it contactless only, but that only solves that problem and besides, that means not everybody could use it I.e. those without cashless payment provision.

In terms of hot-drink machines, most of them are vile anyway, spewing out some form of tea/coffee/hot-chocolate flavoured drink. Only the Lavazza or Costa ones seem to do decent ones, but the issue of vandalism and maintenance still applies.

 

[MikePJ]

Perhaps we should take a leaf out of the Russian book and provide a samovar (hot water boiler) in every coach for passengers to make their own hot drinks with!

 

[WideRanger]

Or do it the Japanese way, and have coffee and tea in cans and plastic bottles - including keeping them hot in the vending machine.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

99% sure that is a fraud thing. Its why they started selling stuff in pre-packed branded cups etc. Crews used to buy their own bread, ham, tea bags etc and sell the stuff at BR rates making a massive profit.

A lad I was at school with got a job pushing a trolley on ScotRail trains. He got sacked as he got caught buying tons of Kit-Kats in WH Smith in Waverley and selling them on the train at train prices.

Can't imagine there was a high profit-margin if he was buying them at a station WHSmiths!

 

[dubscottie]

Can't imagine there was a high profit-margin if he was buying them at a station WHSmiths!

I think it was still a John Menzies at the time now I think about it. He was making about 70p-£1 per 4 finger bar IIRC. They were the smallest (easy to smuggle), most popular item that was sold.

He got caught as the shop manager asked the trolley company why they never asked for a receipt for VAT.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I think it was still a John Menzies at the time now I think about it. He was making about 70p-£1 per 4 finger bar IIRC. They were the smallest (easy to smuggle), most popular item that was sold.

He got caught as the shop manager asked the trolley company why they never asked for a receipt for VAT.

I think these days the trolley company would be asking questions of their suppliers once they got wind of this, if the trolley guy was better-off paying retail prices and selling them on!

But then as a Yorkshireman, there's no way in hell I'd pay over a quid for a 4-finger KitKat!

 

[dubscottie]

The company was still supplying Kit-Kats to the trolley. The guy was just not selling them. He was selling the ones he bought in JM and pocketing the proceeds.

The prices BR (InterCity) and the private firms charged then were pure robbery.

InterCity about 1993 about £1.40 for a can of Coke. Shop price about 50p.

Kit-Kats from the trolley (1999) were about £1.40. Shop price about 30-40p.

This was when the till on the trolley consisted of a plastic cup full of change. Was easy to do.

 

[James James]

The prices BR (InterCity) and the private firms charged then were pure robbery.

It's pure robbery as long as you ignore the employment costs of the person on the train who will be selling a lot less than an equivalent person in a shop. (Which in turn means higher margins on the sold items are needed.)

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The company was still supplying Kit-Kats to the trolley. The guy was just not selling them. He was selling the ones he bought in JM and pocketing the proceeds.

The prices BR (InterCity) and the private firms charged then were pure robbery.

InterCity about 1993 about £1.40 for a can of Coke. Shop price about 50p.

Kit-Kats from the trolley (1999) were about £1.40. Shop price about 30-40p.

This was when the till on the trolley consisted of a plastic cup full of change. Was easy to do.

That's my point though: even with that profit margin, one can only assume that the cost price for the legit stock must have been too high (and/or the wages paid to the trolley staff too low) for it to be worth the effort of buying stock elsewhere out of pocket.

 

[LOL The Irony]

I did a piece on this at university which proposed that the half-carriage shop/buffet on long distance services was equal in size to the smallest Greggs, Costa and Subway franchises and was there a market for leasing out half of a carriage as if it were fixed retail space in a station. In short I found that staffing would have to double or treble from 1 to 2 or 3 albeit at reduced non-unionised cost, footfall was restricted/reduced and that delivery of supplies had to be condensed to 3am-6am before first service and to all overnight stabling locations; this couldn't mirror deliveries throughout the day like fixed retail locations receive.

That's an excellent idea, except I think the rmt might want a word with you over it

 

[yorksrob]

Perhaps we should take a leaf out of the Russian book and provide a samovar (hot water boiler) in every coach for passengers to make their own hot drinks with!

Yes, that could work. We have one in our office !

 

[cactustwirly]

I did a piece on this at university which proposed that the half-carriage shop/buffet on long distance services was equal in size to the smallest Greggs, Costa and Subway franchises and was there a market for leasing out half of a carriage as if it were fixed retail space in a station. In short I found that staffing would have to double or treble from 1 to 2 or 3 albeit at reduced non-unionised cost, footfall was restricted/reduced and that delivery of supplies had to be condensed to 3am-6am before first service and to all overnight stabling locations; this couldn't mirror deliveries throughout the day like fixed retail locations receive.

Although there's nothing stopping the ToCs operating some sort of franchise model. They could use coffee from Costa/Starbucks etc, that's what my uni does in their retail outlets.

 

[ATW Alex 101]

The company was still supplying Kit-Kats to the trolley. The guy was just not selling them. He was selling the ones he bought in JM and pocketing the proceeds.

The prices BR (InterCity) and the private firms charged then were pure robbery.

InterCity about 1993 about £1.40 for a can of Coke. Shop price about 50p.

Kit-Kats from the trolley (1999) were about £1.40. Shop price about 30-40p.

This was when the till on the trolley consisted of a plastic cup full of change. Was easy to do.

Those prices make my eyes water, for the time! Having said that, so does 50p for a can of Coke in 1993! I recall a can of Coke costing around 29p in 2010. No higher than about 50p!