Ongoing ASLEF overtime bans

[BPN2022]

Another overtime ban announced from Monday 31 July to Saturday 5 August

mod note : now also Monday 7 to Saturday 12 August.

 

[KM1991]

Time for an indefinite overtime ban. Less burden on the members and significant disruption. Win-win.

 

[Tomnick]

Time for an indefinite overtime ban. Less burden on the members and significant disruption. Win-win.

The disruption won't be significant. It'll give the TOCs enough certainty to plan and run an emergency timetable with a reduced but consistent service.

 

[KM1991]

The disruption won't be significant. It'll give the TOCs enough certainty to plan and run an emergency timetable with a reduced but consistent service.

Sounds like a nice win for ASLEF when you put it like that. And an utter fail for Mark Harper and the rest of the Conservatives that preside over the railways.

 

[Dave91131]

The overtime "ban" thing has always puzzled me a bit - it's like it's an expectation that overtime has to be worked and it's frowned upon if it isn't.

I've always done alright by turning up at start time, going home at finish time and any time other than that is my own so b*llocks to work.

What's so different here?

 

[172007]

Any reason that Aslef can't include the Sunday for Drivers who have Sundays outside the working week and not committed?

It's a bit of a debate at out place and no one has a straight answer.

 

[KM1991]

Any reason that Aslef can't include the Sunday for Drivers who have Sundays outside the working week and not committed?

It's a bit of a debate at out place and no one has a straight answer.

I guess because Sunday is the biggest earner for those that choose to work.

 

[footprints]

Sounds like a nice win for ASLEF when you put it like that. And an utter fail for Mark Harper and the rest of the Conservatives that preside over the railways.

Zero cancellations on Avanti so far today with no changes to the timetable since the overtime ban was announced. Does that sound like a nice win for ASLEF too?

 

[Tomnick]

Sounds like a nice win for ASLEF when you put it like that. And an utter fail for Mark Harper and the rest of the Conservatives that preside over the railways.

I don't think it would be that big a win, personally. It'd be much harder to keep it in the news, certainly, and a well-planned emergency timetable probably wouldn't be all that disruptive in most cases.

Any reason that Aslef can't include the Sunday for Drivers who have Sundays outside the working week and not committed?

It's a bit of a debate at out place and no one has a straight answer.

I guess that it's just rather a minefield, potentially in legal terms too.

 

[Starmill]

Any reason that Aslef can't include the Sunday for Drivers who have Sundays outside the working week and not committed?

It's a bit of a debate at out place and no one has a straight answer.

I guess it's because if Sundays are committed by the contract of service, Aslef can't ask people to throw them all in without calling strike action. If they're not committed, people can still freely choose to go not available for work, even if they're not called on to take action short of a strike. It is much simpler that way and protects them from any challenges. It will still cause disruption at places where they have rubbish Sunday cover.

 

[scrapy]

Zero cancellations on Avanti so far today with no changes to the timetable since the overtime ban was announced. Does that sound like a nice win for ASLEF too?

Avanti are running a much reduced service this week due to engineering anyway.

 

[Starmill]

Zero cancellations on Avanti so far today with no changes to the timetable since the overtime ban was announced. Does that sound like a nice win for ASLEF too?

Engineering work means Avanti's plan doesn't need anything like the usual number of drivers though doesn't it? Sure the changes haven't been made since the action short of a strike was announced, but that's a one time thing.

 

[JonathanH]

The disruption won't be significant. It'll give the TOCs enough certainty to plan and run an emergency timetable with a reduced but consistent service.

Plenty significant on parts of the SWR and GTR network, especially where connections don't work as a result.

 

[ainsworth74]

Time for an indefinite overtime ban. Less burden on the members and significant disruption. Win-win.

It'll be uneven though. I've yet to notice a significant impact around here during previous ASLEF overtime bans.

Though now I've said that...

 

[Russel]

The disruption won't be significant. It'll give the TOCs enough certainty to plan and run an emergency timetable with a reduced but consistent service.

In that case, from a passenger perspective, bring it on!

 

[footprints]

Engineering work means Avanti's plan doesn't need anything like the usual number of drivers though doesn't it? Sure the changes haven't been made since the action short of a strike was announced, but that's a one time thing.

They've run full timetables with no cancellations throughout the previous overtime bans this summer too.

 

[Goldfish62]

The disruption won't be significant. It'll give the TOCs enough certainty to plan and run an emergency timetable with a reduced but consistent service.

Danger with that is that if it dragged on the government and the TOCs may use it as an excuse not to reinstate normal timetables when/if the dispute is settled. With the reductions on GTR and SWR that would certainly be a big win for the government in their quest to run down the railways.

 

[MikeWM]

Danger with that is that if it dragged on the government and the TOCs may use it as an excuse not to reinstate normal timetables when/if the dispute is settled. With the reductions on GTR and SWR that would certainly be a big win for the government in their quest to run down the railways.

Exactly my thoughts. If - for example - people seem to be able to get by with 1 GN train an hour between Ely and Cambridge rather than 2, and 3 GN/TL an hour between Cambridge and London rather than 6, then future timetables may look considerably more like 1 and 3 than the current 2 and 6. Which wouldn't seem to be much of a success for passengers or ASLEF, though the government will save a bit more money.

 

[Magdalen Road]

Exactly my thoughts. If - for example - people seem to be able to get by with 1 GN train an hour between Ely and Cambridge rather than 2, and 3 GN/TL an hour between Cambridge and London rather than 6, then future timetables may look considerably more like 1 and 3 than the current 2 and 6. Which wouldn't seem to be much of a success for passengers or ASLEF, though the government will save a bit more money.

Getting by isn't quite what I'd call the effect on my commute and if the appalling timetable was made permanent then I'll have consider a career change.
I think it may be time to write to GTR asking for compensation on my season ticket!

 

[Failed Unit]

In that case, from a passenger perspective, bring it on!

Depends on the operator, as others have said the GTR timetable is very significantly reduced. With some people at stations closer to London denied boarding. Many routes are circa 50% normal service.

 

[Snow1964]

Time for an indefinite overtime ban. Less burden on the members and significant disruption. Win-win.

Who wins twice, sounds delusional

Third ban, not even a hint that they have achieved anything different to if they hadn't happened, so staff haven't won.

Whilst some Operators like GTR heavily affected, many lines have seen no disruption, maybe odd trains cancelled but that happens all the time anyway. So become a local dispute, not National.

 

[MikeWM]

Getting by isn't quite what I'd call the effect on my commute and if the appalling timetable was made permanent then I'll have consider a career change.
I think it may be time to write to GTR asking for compensation on my season ticket!

I'd say that anyone trying to commute from the Kings Lynn branch certainly deserves some compensation, particularly as they seem to give up on it entirely at the drop of a hat nowadays (eg. this Thursday and Saturday, as I mentioned earlier on the 20th July thread on another part of the forum).

--

Depends on the operator, as others have said the GTR timetable is very significantly reduced. With some people at stations closer to London denied boarding. Many routes are circa 50% normal service.

...which is horrible for those denied boarding, but on the positive side it does show the reduced GTR timetable isn't 'enough' and so it seems there is less argument to make a reduced service permanent, thank goodness.

 

[Railwayowl80]

Is it possible I could ask a quick question with regards to the strikes with rmt and Aslef I mean seems pointless asking as we are so far off it being sorted but if they are starting to implement changes already without an agreement and are now ie, potentially closing ticket offices and perhaps changing drivers T&Cs what now do they just keep striking and hope the govement stop and could we find ourselves in a situation where pay wouldn’t be backdated from 22/23 if I deal was ever made.

Sorry not trying to take it off topic

 

[EZJ]

Do we really need another thread about the ASLEF overtime ban? It'll end up the same as the others with the same people arguing with each other and after a couple of days it'll get closed.

 

[Silverlinky]

I do find it ironic that ASLEF say that train companies rely on RDW because they don't employ enough staff to run the normal timetable, and then it is ASLEF who agree to RDW agreements to enable companies to carry out more training and get new recruits in, but then it is ASLEF who pull overtime thereby disrupting the course to solving the problem that they say there is!

As mentioned above, maybe companies will introduce timetables which they are confident they can run without needing overtime and then i'm sure that ASLEF will be happy, after all isn't it in their charter to seek an end to institutionalised overtime? Also, what are the chances of the companies pulling these rest day working agreements entirely if they are not being used every other week due to this action?

 

[baz962]

I do find it ironic that ASLEF say that train companies rely on RDW because they don't employ enough staff to run the normal timetable, and then it is ASLEF who agree to RDW agreements to enable companies to carry out more training and get new recruits in, but then it is ASLEF who pull overtime thereby disrupting the course to solving the problem that they say there is!

As mentioned above, maybe companies will introduce timetables which they are confident they can run without needing overtime and then i'm sure that ASLEF will be happy, after all isn't it in their charter to seek an end to institutionalised overtime? Also, what are the chances of the companies pulling these rest day working agreements entirely if they are not being used every other week due to this action?

That would be exactly the same as if they had recruited more drivers. Unless they employ more or as you say reduce the number of services , there will always be overtime. If they do either of those things you have enough drivers to cover annual leave and sick leave , but when no one is on leave and not many people sick you have quite a few drivers sitting around spare while getting paid.

 

[Silverlinky]

That would be exactly the same as if they had recruited more drivers. Unless they employ more or as you say reduce the number of services , there will always be overtime. If they do either of those things you have enough drivers to cover annual leave and sick leave , but when no one is on leave and not many people sick you have quite a few drivers sitting around spare while getting paid.

The old days when you had all the jobs covered and another load of traincrew sat spare in the messroom drinking tea and playing cards!

Whilst the first Asos week seemed to have little effect on LNR I notice this week they have cancelled the Abbey Flyer service for the whole week as well as the Coventry-Nuneaton shuttles.
It will be more difficult to cover the timetable this week and in future weeks thanks to increased leave as the school summer holidays are kicking in.

 

[baz962]

Quite a few cancelled jobs at my place on Thursday , though that's probably because of both the ASOS and RMT strike.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The government have moved on pay rises for many public sector workers (teachers, junior doctors, police/prison workers, dentists, armed forces, civil servants) of between 5% and 7%, from variously April or September this year.

Public sector pay: Workers offered pay rises of around 6%

PM Rishi Sunak said the offer to workers was final and there would be "no more talks on pay".

www.bbc.co.uk

More than one million public sector workers, including teachers, police and doctors, have been offered pay rises of between 5%-7%, the government says.

Looks like this will end the disputes in those sectors, except for the junior doctors with their nonsense 35% claim.
The government is saying there will be no more negotiations on pay this year in these sectors.
But there were pay review bodies for those sectors, unlike in rail, which made reasoned arguments for increases.
It's also not clear how the pay rises will be funded, with some coming from departmental budgets (ie cutting spend or headcount elsewhere).
The deal will probably include all the staff working on rail in the DfT/ORR, and would probably apply to GBR if it existed.

So if the rail unions were planning joint action on the government on a general "we're all worth it" basis, it's not going to happen.
It seems a complete stalemate on negotiations.
Kier Starmer is also not making any encouraging noises about wider public sector funding from a future Labour government, tying it to increased productivity.

Also, what's the truth in the ASLEF "no pay rise for 4 years" mantra?
Is that zero increase for any drivers in that time, or the end of a 4-year agreement for agreed rises during that period?
And does it vary from TOC to TOC?

 

[BPN2022]

they won’t do an indefinite overtime ban as some TOCs are barely affected. Northern have removed a few Blackpool services by P coding for today/tomorrow, but hardly worse than normal.

GTR and SWR impact seems to be more. I suspect this will be an every 2 week summer holiday thing avoiding Sundays and no doubt Monday 28 August too.