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Opening windows on railway carriages

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Justin Smith

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Could somebody just clarify for me what the law is, or will be, on drop lights on preserved railway carriage doors ?
I thought I read somewhere that they were to be outlawed as a "Health & Safety risk", and they would either have to be stopped from opening or bars put across the windows to stop one putting ones head out. Is that true and so does that only apply to mainline trains or also to preserved lines ?
 
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hexagon789

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Could somebody just clarify for me what the law is, or will be, on drop lights on preserved railway carriage doors ?
I thought I read somewhere that they were to be outlawed as a "Health & Safety risk", and they would either have to be stopped from opening or bars put across the windows to stop one putting ones head out. Is that true and so does that only apply to mainline trains or also to preserved lines ?

I thought window bars were only necessary on stock operating on lines with limited clearances such as the Cumbrian coast.
 

DarloRich

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Could somebody just clarify for me what the law is, or will be, on drop lights on preserved railway carriage doors ?
I thought I read somewhere that they were to be outlawed as a "Health & Safety risk", and they would either have to be stopped from opening or bars put across the windows to stop one putting ones head out. Is that true and so does that only apply to mainline trains or also to preserved lines ?


Could you provide a link to any information in this regard?
 

XAM2175

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"Health & Safety risk"
Why does that need the quotes?

From a quick search there's this news item from ORR in August last year:

including these points:
From 31 March 2023, we expect all heritage stock on the mainline to be fitted with internal door handles and lockable windows.

Heritage railways are different ... We want to see every heritage railway conduct a thorough risk assessment and then take appropriate and reasonably practicable measures including moving lineside structures such as signal posts away from the track, cutting back vegetation, restricted window opening to allow ventilation only , putting up prominent signs and making announcements over the public address system.

And, in cases where it is clear that passengers’ actions are putting themselves at risk, the railways need to have a sufficient number of stewards in place who are empowered to remove passengers from the train if they won’t obey safety instructions.
 

trebor79

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Unfortunately every so often someone who thinks they have common sense has about a quarter of a second to realise they haven't been very sensible.
I remember about 20 years ago waving a girlfriend off from Bristol Temple Meads. As the HST accelerated along the curved platform she leaned right out to wave and disappeared from view as the train rounded the bend. I was pretty horrified and actually waited around a bit until I could see that nothing untoward had occurred.
 

Journeyman

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I've got a horrible feeling this thread is going to degenerate rapidly, with the usual suspects arguing that your ability to decapitate yourself leaning out of a window is a universal human right.

It's no longer considered acceptable, and rightly so. Nothing to see here. Move on.
 

xotGD

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I've got a horrible feeling this thread is going to degenerate rapidly, with the usual suspects arguing that your ability to decapitate yourself leaning out of a window is a universal human right.

It's no longer considered acceptable, and rightly so. Nothing to see here. Move on.
I think I qualify as a usual suspect. But I'm not going to bite.

Stay safe.
 

Journeyman

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Nanny state

Anyway, heritage railways would want to do everything as reasonably practical to mitigate/eliminate risk. Who wants blood on their hands?

Any heritage railway that doesn't properly deal with the risks presented by droplights will get shut down. You can decide for yourself whether you think that's "nanny state" or not, but given that (a) the majority of heritage railway visitors will not be used to slam doors and droplights, and therefore won't understand the risks properly and (b) the very real dangers they present, I'm on the ORR's side here, and consider it a very, very minor inconvenience in the grand scheme of things. Horrific accidents have occurred with droplights, and everything reasonable needs to be done to prevent them occurring in the future.
 

Baxenden Bank

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Ah, the good old days, or a preview of the new Northern service to the Trafford Centre:
BLS - 06.jpgBLS - 06.jpg
Picture shows a Manchester University Transport Society trip through Trafford Park in 1974.

Taken from the following Branch Line Society Album
Branch Line Society Album
 

Richard Scott

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Any heritage railway that doesn't properly deal with the risks presented by droplights will get shut down. You can decide for yourself whether you think that's "nanny state" or not, but given that (a) the majority of heritage railway visitors will not be used to slam doors and droplights, and therefore won't understand the risks properly and (b) the very real dangers they present, I'm on the ORR's side here, and consider it a very, very minor inconvenience in the grand scheme of things. Horrific accidents have occurred with droplights, and everything reasonable needs to be done to prevent them occurring in the future.
There are risks but at 25mph much reduced. We can't keep trying to save people from themselves, this is a nanny state issue going too far. How many people have been injured or killed by leaning out of windows on Heritage lines? I don't know the answer so would be interested. I must admit to becoming increasingly fed up with all this sort of interference, people need to take responsibility for their own actions.
 

Bletchleyite

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It does, to be fair, give heritage railways the option to move lineside structures and vegetation away from the train so you can't clout your head on it even if you do lean out. This seems a sensible option where feasible, particularly as they tend to be single-track lines often on wider formations.
 

Cowley

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We really have done this subject many times before, and it always leads to lots of arguing.
If you’d like to spend some time reading through all of those arguments there’s 18 pages of it here following a very sad incident in 2016 which covers pretty much all of it I’d say.


 
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